Hev Suit
Mantrid
Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
in Discussions
Think about the HEV suit from Half-Life. Is it possible to build one with today's technology? If not, how long would it take to develop one? What components would it need? What would it be made out of? How much do you think it would cost to develop? How much do you think each unit would cost?
Keep in mind that the HEV suit would have to be able to:
<ul><li>Assign and track health and armor "points"</li><li>Offer protection from poison, heat, cold, radiation, electricity, noxious fumes, and other hazards</li><li>Be able to administer morphine, adrenaline, et cetera</li><li>Keep the user cool (it probably gets hot in that thing)</li><li>Clean its own interior (to prevent sweat from collecting in the padding and molding)</li><li>Track weapons being carried</li><li>Track ammunition being carried</li><li>Store weapons and ammunition</li><li>Be able to heal wounds via a chemical recharger (the white things seen on the walls of the BMRF)</li><li>Have a non-intrusive HUD</li><li>Assist movement</li><li>Remain flexible</li><li>Allow easy module add ons (long jump, oxygen tank)</li><li>Be bullet proof</li><li>Be fire resistant</li><li>Be able to withstand explosions</li><li>Have a head-mounted flashlight that could be easily turned on and off</li></ul>
Keep in mind that the HEV suit would have to be able to:
<ul><li>Assign and track health and armor "points"</li><li>Offer protection from poison, heat, cold, radiation, electricity, noxious fumes, and other hazards</li><li>Be able to administer morphine, adrenaline, et cetera</li><li>Keep the user cool (it probably gets hot in that thing)</li><li>Clean its own interior (to prevent sweat from collecting in the padding and molding)</li><li>Track weapons being carried</li><li>Track ammunition being carried</li><li>Store weapons and ammunition</li><li>Be able to heal wounds via a chemical recharger (the white things seen on the walls of the BMRF)</li><li>Have a non-intrusive HUD</li><li>Assist movement</li><li>Remain flexible</li><li>Allow easy module add ons (long jump, oxygen tank)</li><li>Be bullet proof</li><li>Be fire resistant</li><li>Be able to withstand explosions</li><li>Have a head-mounted flashlight that could be easily turned on and off</li></ul>
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be able to heal wounds via a chemical recharger<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite difficult, but it would probably be more like refilling/replacing the suit's current medical supplies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be bullet proof<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>nothing</i> is bullet proof. Resistant, maybe, but not bullet proof.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be fire resistant<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, quite difficult, but possible.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be able to withstand explosions<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aaaand... No.
RPG's use molten copper to punch through even the thickest of armors. Though the concussive blast would probably kill you anyways, the molten copper will put a hole in you. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And of course the only thing that doesn't really matter:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Clean its own interior<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because it's quite easy to stop/reduce sweating by altering the climate within the suit.
As far as medicine goes, a lot of military research is going into that field. It's already possible to have a shirt or whatever that can tell if you're bleeding. I think it's likely that a suit could perform some first aid, applying preasure to stop bleeding and stiffening to support a bone injury for example.
However, the HEV suit needs to act as a form of armor to all weapons, including smaller explosives and energy based. It also must be flexible to allow for ease of movement for things like running, jumping, etc.
The most important thing to remember is that the suit is essentially an extension of the wearer's body. A mechanical add on to help the wearer deal with dangerous situations.
No, an HEV suit is not possible. Perhaps a very primitive version that is somewhat more advanced than the radiation suits of today, but not the advanced one seen in Half Life.
Hmm... Maybe. Orginally these "points" were supposed to be precentages. I don't think you would need such a display except to indicate where exactly where your armor is damaged. (health is not needed thanx to a thing called pain, you'll just know)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Offer protection from poison, heat, cold, radiation, electricity, noxious fumes, and other hazards<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends on how much. I mean my shirt I'm wearing right now offers a small degree of protection from all of these.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be able to administer morphine, adrenaline, et cetera<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is easy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Keep the user cool (it probably gets hot in that thing)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sure, but it will drain your stored energy
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Clean its own interior (to prevent sweat from collecting in the padding and molding)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Part of temperature contol system. You'd be wearing an undergarment just liek you wear socks in shoes. This isn't a problem
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Track weapons being carried<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Challenging, but possible; most likely requiring some user input
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Track ammunition being carried<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Several guns already do this, I supose you coudl link the info to the suit
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Store weapons and ammunition<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How much? I mean at some points in Half-Life it jsut gets unrealistic. Oh look I got 10 rockets, 10 greandes, 250 9mm bullets, 125 shotgun shells, 100 units of some heavy metal or fusion product or something, a steel crowbar, a glock, a crossbow with amunition, a tau gun, a big arse egon cannon (look like it weighs over 25 Kg alone), RPG, mp5, 12 gauge shotgun, 15 snarks, a bunch of mines, grandes, and satchels, etc.
Imao unless you got soem kind of 4 dimensional pocket there's no way you can keep all this stuff on you. (ever seen what happens if you set gravity to 9999 and then take a step on some stairs?)
This is biggest challenge.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be able to heal wounds via a chemical recharger (the white things seen on the walls of the BMRF)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
#2 challenge. um... super rapid nanites carrying lots of material to repair the cells
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have a non-intrusive HUD<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure about "non-intrusive" part but HUD exists and is widely used in military
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Assist movement<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easy except for how to store energy
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Remain flexible<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easy, talk to textile mechanical engineer
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Allow easy module add ons (long jump, oxygen tank)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um ok, mechanical engineering (prob bring the electric and propulsion engineers too)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be bullet proof<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To what degree/how much? Stoping a 90 m/s projectile with a 4 g mass or are we talkign about a tank shell? Different thing have different penetration ratings.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be fire resistant<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um... ok. How much?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Be able to withstand explosions<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How much?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have a head-mounted flashlight that could be easily turned on and off<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easy. Done.
There are aspects which are easy and a few others which are near impossible.
PS: you forgot one: crosshair to appear where your shot will travel.
Also nanobots are completely out of the question. We're no where close to such technology.
Yeah...uh...we've had this "technology" for quite a while now, and I own several of them.
White shirt anyone?
A kelvar vest maby with a plate, and sensors should do it... As for arm shots and head shots, I don't see how you would do it without sending cost to high hell... Maby a pulse reader, but if you need a pulse reader, you're kind of too late for information about who's injured...
<u>These two are impossible:</u>
1. Store weapons and ammunition
2. Be able to heal wounds via a <s>chemical</s> medical recharger (the white things seen on the walls of the BMRF)
1. Needs a 4 dimensional pocket or something.
2. Nanites maybe but modern technology is nowhere near this
<b><i>Everything else is easily possible</i></b>, except that one is just stupid: health/hit points. Why? It's called pain. You can't feel pain in a computer FPS so you need some type of indicators.
Other than those two impossible things... knock yourself out. It <i>can</i> be made, for a price. And even then the energy requirement for assisted movement will mean it'll probably suck power like a hungry fat man on a smoothie.
x5 is right about those two being impossible, but the rest could be done. Remember, there is no cost limit; these are multi-million dollar suits, which is why Gordon is the only one who's wearing one.
<u>These two are impossible:</u>
1. Store weapons and ammunition
2. Be able to heal wounds via a <s>chemical</s> medical recharger (the white things seen on the walls of the BMRF)
1. Needs a 4 dimensional pocket or something.
2. Nanites maybe but modern technology is nowhere near this
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmmmm well a 4 dimensional pocket? i dunno.. but im thinking maybe a giant package pouch... kinda a backpack over your ****.... yeaaaaaaah... damn thats a good idea.... real cool. i bet that will be a huge fad in europe in no time!
and for 2... they say laughter is the best medicine.. so maybe if they had a feather inside the suit that tickles you silly? i think that could work...
God why arent i a scientest?
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
prob'ly talkin about a black hole, i guess. The 4th dimension is time, time slows down as you enter a black hole, and black holes compress stuff, so its the only thing i can think of <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A black hole isn't a 4 dimetional pocket... A black whole is a super dence concentration of mass. I can guarentee you that if you had a black hole in your pocket you would not be happy camper, storage would be the least of your concerns.
The fourth dimention is time, so I can only assume that by "4 dimentional pocket" you mean a pocket that installs items into another time for retreval later, but that is not only VERY VERY impossible, but it also doesn't sound all that convintiant, because you would only be able to retrieve items in locations that they entered the other time. Unless you have some sort of teleporter, but then why wouldn't you just teleport supplies in?
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
prob'ly talkin about a black hole, i guess. The 4th dimension is time, time slows down as you enter a black hole, and black holes compress stuff, so its the only thing i can think of <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A black hole isn't a 4 dimetional pocket... A black whole is a super dence concentration of mass. I can guarentee you that if you had a black hole in your pocket you would not be happy camper, storage would be the least of your concerns.
The fourth dimention is time, so I can only assume that by "4 dimentional pocket" you mean a pocket that installs items into another time for retreval later, but that is not only VERY VERY impossible, but it also doesn't sound all that convintiant, because you would only be able to retrieve items in locations that they entered the other time. Unless you have some sort of teleporter, but then why wouldn't you just teleport supplies in? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wouldn't a better description of a black hole be a 0-dimensional pocket?
<a href='http://www.nfb.ca/grizzly/suit.html' target='_blank'>bear-proof suit</a>
<img src='http://www.nfb.ca/grizzly/suit1.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fireproof rubber exterior (from Minnesota)
Titanium outer plates (from Hamilton, Ont.)
Suit joints made of chain mail (from France)
Tek plastic inner shell (from Japan)
Inner layer of air bags
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Testing On Suit:
Truck: 18 collisions with a three-tonne truck travelling at 50 kilometres an hour (30 m.p.h)
Rifle: Shot at with 12 gauge shotgun, using "Sabot" slugs
Arrows: Armour-piercing arrows, fired from 45 kilogram (100 lb.) bow
Tree Trunk: Two collisions with a 136 kilgram (300 lb.) tree from a height of 9 metres (30 ft.)
Bikers: Assault by three bikers -- the largest, 2.05 metres (6 ft. 9 in.) tall, weighing 175 kilograms (385 lbs.). Biker armaments: splitting ax, planks, baseball bat.
Escarpment: Jumped off escarpment, falling over (over 150 ft.).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok 2 things with that:
1. Remember your Joules (energy requirement through the roof)
2. Fragile design (If it's supposed to be military/combat grade it better be tough)
But most importantly if I have to look like a balloon like Pierrot Le Fou (episode #20 from Cowboy Bebop), I'd rather go with a different armor.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dr_133t+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr_133t)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->prob'ly talkin about a black hole, i guess. The 4th dimension is time, time slows down as you enter a black hole, and black holes compress stuff, so its the only thing i can think of<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Correction:</b> 4th dimension is not time, but most people think it is for some reason. Every major quantum physics mathematician has agree and give mathematical proof that time isn't a quantifier at all. Time is simply the observance of change, we abstractly quantify it by measuring cycles in the change. Dimensions have nothing to do with change, they describe an object in existence, more specifically size and location data. A fourth dimension would simply be something else you could measure in distance units (like meters). I know what I'm talking about wizard, but if one tries to put it in words or symbols it becomes too confusing (you don't want me to write out the formulas). Therefore allow me to illustrate using a visual, geometric sequence:
Impossible 2D Object requiring a 3rd Dimension to make it possible:
Möbius Band/Strip
<!--QuoteBegin-how to make. <a href='http://www.coolphysics.com/4d/nonorientable/moebius_strip/moebius_strip.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.coolphysics.com/4d/nonorientabl...ebius_strip.htm</a>+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (how to make. <a href='http://www.coolphysics.com/4d/nonorientable/moebius_strip/moebius_strip.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.coolphysics.com/4d/nonorientabl...ebius_strip.htm</a>)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is also helpful to make a Möbius strip yourself and prove that it is one sided. Making a Möbius strip is rather simple, take an ordinary 11"x8" piece of paper and fold or cut the paper into a rectangle so that one side is longer than the other, 11"x1" works well. Now bring the two long ends together, at this point you should have something that looks like an ordinary ring. Next, twist one of the ends 180° and tape the two ends together; you should now have a Möbius strip. Two prove that your Möbius strip is single sided take a pen or pencil and start drawing a line around the circumference of the Möbius strip. When drawing the line, never take your pen off the paper; just keep drawing the line until you reach the point at which you started. Once you are finished look at both sides, there should be a line on both sides, thus proving that it is all the same side because you never took the pen off the paper.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Impossible 3D Objects requiring a 4th Dimension to make it possible:
<a href='http://www.coolphysics.com/4d/nonorientable/klein_bottle/klein_bottle.htm' target='_blank'>Klein Bottle</a>
<a href='http://www.coolphysics.com/4d/nonorientable/steiners_roman_surface/steiners_roman_surface.htm' target='_blank'>Steiner's Roman Surface</a>
<a href='http://www.coolphysics.com/4d/nonorientable/boys_surface/boys_surface.htm' target='_blank'>Boy's Surface</a>
These types of "impossible geometry" requiring the use of the next dimension to make it possible are known as <b>non-orientable surfaces</b> in mathematics.
<!--QuoteBegin-definition+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (definition)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The basic definition of a non-orientable surface is any surface of which a closed path can be drawn such that the direction reverses. Sound confusing? Well it isn't once you get a good visual image of the path, fortunately an excellent visualization of this path is given the explanation of the Möbius Strip<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-five years ago a leading physicist said: quoted by Mark Sudduth+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (five years ago a leading physicist said: quoted by Mark Sudduth)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The heart of the problem is that since we are stuck in a 3-dimensional world we cannot visualize or physically experience anything more than the 3rd dimension. Some of you may not like that last statement since time is such a strong candidate for the 4th dimension. You may say, "we can reasonably visualize or physically experience time." However, I say we most certainly cannot reasonably visualize or physically experience time, for if we could we would know for certain if it were the 4th dimension, we could point in some direction and say, "look time is that way". What we can do is physically experience the effects of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This same guy now agrees with another physicist who says that time is an abstract-abstract. In other words what we call and quantify as time doesn't exist all but rather our observation of something called "change", I agree. It does make sense.
<span style='color:gray'>Now I could see a complex rendition of a Klien bottle that has a way to keep things in it and has a large opening could certainly be the solution to the storage problems. For that matter add a massive nuclear power plant in there too and you'll solve the energy issues as well. Yay for the 4D pocket on the HEV suit! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--></span>
Many quantum physicists will argue that the we live in a 4D universe, as matter at the subatomic level begins to really show off the power of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and begin phasing though each other in a 4D manner.
Many astrophysicists reiterate that there are only 3 dimensions.
These two camps have been able to avoid each other until the interest in black holes came around. It's anyone guess so you'll have to decide for yourself where you believe in the uber-macro or uber-micro. The current understand by both is that matter at that singularity doesn't collapse anymore than electrons are pulled into the center of the atom's nucleus and collapse. The only thing that is for sure is that conventional physics cannot explain some of the things we observe on the subatomic or universal scales.
With all of that said, a black hole is not necessary (rather just a bad idea) and you wouldn't be able to contain the gravimetric fields and time dilation.
<!--QuoteBegin-wixard@psu+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wixard@psu)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wouldn't a better description of a black hole be a 0-dimensional pocket? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean 1 dimensional. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Zero dimensions are needed to describe nothing/void/null. 1 dimension is needed to describe a singularity. Trust me there is definitely something there, nothing is a good description of what unoccupied space is actually. But besides the typo I think you are right on.
<!--QuoteBegin-wixard@psu+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wixard@psu)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wouldn't a better description of a black hole be a 0-dimensional pocket? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean 1 dimensional. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Zero dimensions are needed to describe nothing/void/null. 1 dimension is needed to describe a singularity. Trust me there is definitely something there, nothing is a good description of what unoccupied space is actually. But besides the typo I think you are right on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was debating if I should list it as a 1 dimensional space or a 0 dimensional space.
There really is no way to completely describe it. You run into problems when mathmatical aproximations are used or other shortcuts.
Referring to the point in space in which a black hole would exist would be a multi-dimensional set. The only problem with that is that space itself, and thus the coordinates would also be 'off'.
Lets say we take a black hole to have collapsed to the point of a singularity. Describing its surface would be impossible as it would be trying to describe the surface of a point and therefore you can only describe the location and not the object. However, if we understand a blackhole as an exceptionally dense object with a non arbitrary volume then it is quite possible to describe its surface. The problem with this second description is again the warped space. The same system of measurements that works on the surface of a black hole would not work in real space.
Funky stuff really.