Stating your opinion...
Swiftspear
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
<span style='color:white'>Split from the 'Did You Vote Yet?' thread.</span>
What is with this whole American concept of having the right to state your opinion? As if having an opinion on a subject puts you at the same level as everyone else debating it, just because you can now state it as loudly as you want. Does anyone else find the concept of inate value to opinion stupid? I'm not agianst having the right to state your opinion per say, I'm just also for the responsibility to shutting the hell up and changing your mind, or finding more backing, when your opinion gets owned. All opinions are not equal, not even slightly, people who have put more time and effort into a subject should have seniority when it comes to stating an opinion about it or at very least be given time to explain the rhyme and reason properly, rather than having to try to scream complicated processes as evidence over the throng who is yelling thier unrecearched, uneducated opinions as loud as they can, just because they can.
What is with this whole American concept of having the right to state your opinion? As if having an opinion on a subject puts you at the same level as everyone else debating it, just because you can now state it as loudly as you want. Does anyone else find the concept of inate value to opinion stupid? I'm not agianst having the right to state your opinion per say, I'm just also for the responsibility to shutting the hell up and changing your mind, or finding more backing, when your opinion gets owned. All opinions are not equal, not even slightly, people who have put more time and effort into a subject should have seniority when it comes to stating an opinion about it or at very least be given time to explain the rhyme and reason properly, rather than having to try to scream complicated processes as evidence over the throng who is yelling thier unrecearched, uneducated opinions as loud as they can, just because they can.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. It is whatever I want, because thats teh way it is when you can state your opinion like every other american is entitled to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not arguing against your right to state you're opinion, I'm arguing that it can be done once, and it isnt that people who are dissagreeing you don't understand your opinion, its that they have different grounds on which they have formed thier own opinions, thus once you have stated yourself once, there is no reason to do it again. This is a concept many americans don't seem to get. I wasn't applying it to you, you just brought the topic up and I ran with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. It not only puts me at the same level, but a much better level, if it is, in fact, better.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Everyone has an opinion, even if they say they have no opinion, its just a fancy way of saying thier opinion is indifferent, and they don't feel strongly about the issue. Every issue is an opinion, no one speaks objective fact, so how can it be anything other? Simply HAVING an opinion is a granted, there is absolutly no value in it, there is only value in an opinion that has been well formed or as you describe it 'better'. You are basicly just agreeing with my original point here. The point where the whole issue falls apart however, is that EVERYONE, unless they intentionally have not looked into an issue, belives thier opinion to be the best opinion, thus everyone feels as if they should have the right to be the loudest. Thus I am saying, just say it once and then defend it, don't get louder and repeat yourself like a moron when someone proves you wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3. No, never, that statement in itself is an opinion, and i accept your opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, that statement was a biased question asking for other opinions for gratification. Ironic I guess, but it illustrates the point. I may respect the fact that you have an opinion, but that doesn't mean I would rather hear it restated then hear it defended properly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4. "shutting the hell up and changing your mind" is not something that most people do, neither is "finding more backing" when there is no need to do so. So I guess you were not intending to insult anybody in any way by saying "shutting the hell up", were u?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I could give you examples where this would work out really well, but I guess its the kind of thing you have to see to belive. To me it seems logical that if I don't know much about the issue, I'm going to let other people talk so I can learn and form a new opinion rather than pretending I'm more educated then I am and humiliating myself for no end gain whatsoever.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. all opinions are equal until one is proven better than another.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I wish more people would go for the proving rather than flaunting unproven opinions just because they have them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6. to say that someone has senority over another would be discrimination, and thus create an unfair balance of every debate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Like you say, senority is proved, it isn't an arbitrary value, it must be constantly defended against evidences contrary. For instance, I would say that Sonic@PSU has seniority over issues that involve current computing processor technology in this forum, because of that, I am not going to state opinions conrary to his that I cannot defend surrounding that issue, rather I am going to attemt to learn from what he knows, so I can either form a new opinion on the basis of the stuff I had already known, or I can adopt his opinion with the evidence he has presented for future discussion. But should someone come with equal evidences and an opposite opinion they would have every right to contend the points already made with thier own input.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->7. give your rhyme and reason if this is what you say you need to do. Practice what you preach.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I find it funny that you split that point up in the middle of the same sentance
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->8. "screaming complicated processes", sounds like something you are trying to do, yourself, so far, buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because as a whole it says something totally different then the two parts. I was arguing that people shouldn't have to screem complicated processes over valueless banter, not that they shouldn't try. You want proof? How about the fact that you want proof of my statement at all? If you don't belive a stated opinion should come hand and hand with proofs what right do you have to ask for proof?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9. It is not a question of research, or if it is educated, it is actually an opinion of whether you think one candidate is better than another. It is like saying yes or no to an open ended question in your opinion. It is like saying each candidate is like a math problem, and once you figure out the answer you have calculated which one is the best. It is a matter of something we call an opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> All problems can be processed like math problems, infact I could probably take my opinions on the issue and turn it into a mathimatical equation. The thing is that there is variable that different people assign different values too, and personally I would like to hear more about what those vairables are and why they have assigned the values they have assigned, and even how they fit into the over all equation, then the end result of the calculation.
<span style='color:white'>Related post nuked.</span>
Ever hear of free speech as being one of those unalienable rights for all beings? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I agree that some people may post opinions which are ignorant, weak, in contrast to what you believe, or just done in an annoying way but we got to be careful to respect their right to free speech.
If you want uniform conformity, join the Nha Si'Marat. If you believe in the power of diversity united then join the Federation of Xzianthia.
~edit~
In reply to
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See? Swift isn't saying that not everyone should be able to speak freely. He's saying that you shouldn't abuse that right.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't saying I disagreed with that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> (double negative, in otherwords: I agree with that)
The who and the what now? Google draws a blank.
Of course it draws a blank. It's my unfinished brain child. If it didn't draw a blank there'd be an issue.
PS: google does bring up my domain when you type in Xzianthia. Unfortunately I have nto had the tiem to add the new material to the website. (currently I'm just using ti to store my stuff)
I'm actually I've been looking for someone to tech up and revamp the site. <_<
Nha Si' Marat -- the "evil Empire" of the story*, it is a far cry to say these ego maniac humans posing as gods are unsophisiticated though. And their perfection has a beauty to it which is hard to imagine. Until the Xzianthians repelled their invasion in IGW One, the Nha Si Marat had never faced defeat. This defeat however awoke the Nectea<b>`</b>
Xzianthia -- Actually the name of the planet** of the Xzianthian people. The Federation of Xzianthia was formed from the united allies of the Xzianthians and managed to strike a balance between the conquering Nha and free space.
* story = history
<b>`</b> long story (hell to explain it fully is to tell the whole story) but the Nectea had been thought a holy race but in fact they were evil and selfish humans and it was their artificial beings who had actually created Xzianthia.
** the planet and the solar system was artificially made from the nebula
The who and the what now? Google draws a blank. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Google is good, but it apparently isn't quite good enough to transend the gaps between the infinate parrallel universes yet <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
X5, you should really post a link to a site where people can recearch the stuff you talk about when you say stuff like that, like I said before, posting a mythological example that no one is aquainted with is really useless, and acctually somewhat disorienting, unless you give them a context to fill it out.
PS: google does bring up my domain when you type in Xzianthia. Unfortunately I have nto had the tiem to add the new material to the website. (currently I'm just using ti to store my stuff)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Argh! If you just made it up, how can I hope to know what you mean?
Oh, and I think it's unfair to jump on Swift's first sentence. Swift goes on to say:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...<b>I'm not agianst having the right to state your opinion per say, I'm just also for the responsibility to shutting the hell up and changing your mind, or finding more backing, when your opinion gets owned. </b>All opinions are not equal, not even slightly, people who have put more time and effort into a subject should have seniority when it comes to stating an opinion about it or at very least be given time to explain the rhyme and reason properly, rather than having to try to scream complicated processes as evidence over the throng who is yelling thier unrecearched, uneducated opinions as loud as they can, just because they can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See? Swift isn't saying that not everyone should be able to speak freely. He's saying that you shouldn't abuse that right.
Then again, maybe I read it wrong. It's 3 AM and I'm on an adrenaline high, yet I am very, very weary.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...<b>I'm not agianst having the right to state your opinion per say, I'm just also for the responsibility to shutting the hell up and changing your mind, or finding more backing, when your opinion gets owned. </b>All opinions are not equal, not even slightly, people who have put more time and effort into a subject should have seniority when it comes to stating an opinion about it or at very least be given time to explain the rhyme and reason properly, rather than having to try to scream complicated processes as evidence over the throng who is yelling thier unrecearched, uneducated opinions as loud as they can, just because they can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See? Swift isn't saying that not everyone should be able to speak freely. He's saying that you shouldn't abuse that right.
Then again, maybe I read it wrong. It's 3 AM and I'm on an adrenaline high, yet I am very, very weary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No you read the pretty much exactly right. I'm complaining about the fact that people use their 'right' to state thier opinion, as an oppertunity to be loud and ignorant. Having an opinion is nothing special, stop wasting every one's time whining about it and get to making the opinion you have stronger.
What is with this whole American concept of having the right to state your opinion? As if having an opinion on a subject puts you at the same level as everyone else debating it, just because you can now state it as loudly as you want. Does anyone else find the concept of inate value to opinion stupid? I'm not agianst having the right to state your opinion per say, I'm just also for the responsibility to shutting the hell up and changing your mind, or finding more backing, when your opinion gets owned. All opinions are not equal, not even slightly, people who have put more time and effort into a subject should have seniority when it comes to stating an opinion about it or at very least be given time to explain the rhyme and reason properly, rather than having to try to scream complicated processes as evidence over the throng who is yelling thier unrecearched, uneducated opinions as loud as they can, just because they can. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yo swiftspear! answer your freaking messages!!!!!
What is with this whole American concept of having the right to state your opinion? As if having an opinion on a subject puts you at the same level as everyone else debating it, just because you can now state it as loudly as you want. Does anyone else find the concept of inate value to opinion stupid? I'm not agianst having the right to state your opinion per say, I'm just also for the responsibility to shutting the hell up and changing your mind, or finding more backing, when your opinion gets owned. All opinions are not equal, not even slightly, people who have put more time and effort into a subject should have seniority when it comes to stating an opinion about it or at very least be given time to explain the rhyme and reason properly, rather than having to try to scream complicated processes as evidence over the throng who is yelling thier unrecearched, uneducated opinions as loud as they can, just because they can. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yo swiftspear! answer your freaking messages!!!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The last PM I received was from TAK thanking me for using one of my gifs, what are you talking about?
Im just like bush, its my JOB to disagree with everyone. Lets get along little doggies <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't start this as a new topic, Nem0 seperated the two. Don't flatter yourself, I just liked the topic, you can stay out of it compleatly if you want.
This topic (the idea itself, not as much the posts) reminds me of "sound-bite" political talk shows. You ask a bunch of audience members to sum up a complicated issue in 1-2 poorly thought out sentances with no support. Then there is ire or applause. Yay, might as well have not said anything.
Some things are probably just a deep desire to talk, to be heard and stand out, regardless of what you have to say (complete opposite of Japan, as I found out recently). There are plenty of negative things to say about forced silence, but when it's self imposed it becomes a blessing.
edit: ninja apostrophe deletion!
Indeed.
<span style='color:gray'>*poke poke*
Psst!
<_<
>_>
Hey moderators. See Nemesis Zero using the split and merge? Start using it more please. He's setting a good example. Merge & Split are a moderators best friend. (well next to delete & edit but that's besides the point)</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-RotGut+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RotGut)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yo swiftspear! answer your freaking messages!!!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The last PM I received was from TAK thanking me for using one of my gifs, what are you talking about?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um yea I second that motion. What <i>are</i> you talking about? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This topic (the idea itself, not as much the posts) reminds me of "sound-bite" political talk shows. You ask a bunch of audience members to sum up a complicated issue in 1-2 poorly thought out sentances with no support. Then there is ire or applause. Yay, might as well have not said anything.
Some things are probably just a deep desire to talk, to be heard and stand out, regardless of what you have to say (complete opposite of Japan, as I found out recently). There are plenty of negative things to say about forced silence, but when it's self imposed it becomes a blessing.
edit: ninja apostrophe deletion! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for understanding what I am talking about.