<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It was "tweaked" a bit, no major changes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can u say that?? Fades have been beefed and marines down sized
Since the patch (2 days ago, yes I realize this) I have not seen a SINGLE marine win, except for the one time they rushed the hive very early in the game...
No matter how good my commander is, we've always lost after patch, at least before the patch Marines stood a chance....
And I'm not proposing to take the commander out, just don't have the team rely entirely on him, what if the Aliens had a Queen that could only build structures and supply health? That wouldn't be kewl would it? But if u had the Queen AND some defense chambers (healing) then it'd be alright
I dunno, I still say Fades are unbalanced )goes and makes Fade unbalanced sig(
<!--QuoteBegin--Battousai^^x+Nov 12 2002, 03:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Battousai^^x @ Nov 12 2002, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lol i remember one game at nothing, many pts will laugh about this. We where aliens in a nothing game, we had powersilo and viaduct, marines early rushed cargo bay and took it, we where trying to advance trought the middle of the map when we see that the marines are sieging viaduct hive, we all try to save it but we get pretty much screwed by the ha´s, then theiggsta says over voicecomm: Damn, we are screwed, its all over....... WE LOST!!!.Then we all say stuff like: hey, be possitive, we will win and stuff like that, after a hard time fighting viaduct, i just get killed and i see a little gorge building a huge base behind their defending base at viaduct, so i go skulk and i help the gorge, cleaning everything up from marine spawn to cargo bay, then we all massivelly assaulted cargobay. Marines where using a lot phase gates so they never noticed the base the little gorge had built in the way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->, after we took cargo bay we easily took care of viaduct defenses, then we where all laughing at iggsta because he sayed we had already lost when we all hear: THE HIVE IS UNDERATTACK!! THE HIVE IS DYING, then Sentrysteve yells: damn, we got a siege, gogogo, after a really hardcore battle (like 10 mins atleast) we took the siege off and rebuilt powersilo base, then i bugged the elev (mwhaahahah) so they couldnt bother us trought power silo anymore unless they attacked trought a whole wall of offensive towers and lotsa stuff =). After like 10 mins of constantly assaulting marines outposts till we got them cornered we all morphed into onos, and i mean ALL (we where like 7 onos atleast) we all rushed in at the same time, and destroyed the base. then we where all having fun when we notice that the game hasnt finished.... there where like 2 marines left around somewhere. One of them was hiding with a jetpack in the elev i bugged, he was with his shotgun all confident flying around having fun when i paralize him, he fell to the ground and broke all his bones, damn that was funny as hell. After like 10 secs another onos kills the last marine. This game is seriously balanced if you know how to play it, you can be dying and then getting close to the win when something you never expected happens and you get totally surprised. After that game we played a long nancy game and marines won (they totally destroyed us......) so this game is pretty much balanced the problem is that we dont know how we should play it, so we just complain about the balancing issues, but, there arent any........<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Never before, in any of your posts, have you used such broken english. Iam ashamed.
<!--QuoteBegin--[DSY]Stauf+Nov 12 2002, 09:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([DSY]Stauf @ Nov 12 2002, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tzarcon, the major flaw with your logic is that the game has recieved a patch that changed a variety of factors. I'm not going to say whether it was unbalanced before, if it's unbalanced now, or anything like that, but...
Because of the patch:
If it was balanced before, it's unbalanced now. If it is balanced now, then it was unbalanced before.
The fact is, you can't say that it has always been balanced, unless of course making some fundemental changes to the game doesn't have <b>any</b> affect on it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you knew more about the patch , you would know that it didn't change many things, it made it so that turrets will power down with the voidance of a turret factory and thats about it. All the other "balance issues" were BUGS that happened in the last second. The marine resource issue was a BUG that is now fixed, thus it is returned to normal.
<!--QuoteBegin--Moleculor+Nov 12 2002, 02:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moleculor @ Nov 12 2002, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, the whole 'problem' with turning around a losing game will go away when people find out the tactics for turning around a losing game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know what you mean Mol....
This one game I played, we only had 1 hive and 1 living Fade (me) with Remdemption. We were all just about to give up and goto the RR to start a new match. But then one gorge took our HUGE amount of RPs and built so many D chambers and O chambers he could. Then we made an attack on the marine's main base. We killed the one and only CC and infantry portals. Team Two Wins! I was so happy that we worked as a team to kill the marines and did not give up. The marines had the RPs to destroy us but they were all going HA/HMG and by themselves. Also they had at least 10 turrets in each captured hive (We had 3 hives before but were low on RPs so we could not really stop them). What a comeback! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Tzarcon+Nov 13 2002, 10:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tzarcon @ Nov 13 2002, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you knew more about the patch , you would know that it didn't change many things, it made it so that turrets will power down with the voidance of a turret factory and thats about it. All the other "balance issues" were BUGS that happened in the last second. The marine resource issue was a BUG that is now fixed, thus it is returned to normal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I realize that the marine resource issue was a bug. But, just to clarify, are you saying that all the other changes in the patch, ie. damage of marine and alien weapons, the GL clip capacity, the changes in weapons and structures costs, etc. were all "bugs" that "happened at the last second"? If so, how? I'm serious. I'd like to know.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the major issue that makes the marines some what week is that they are like almost 100% reliing on the commander. I don't know if thats the greatest thing. If you have some guy in there that has no clue what he is doing then your not going to have a good team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is true to some part, but you can have a crappy commander, and you dont have to rely on them 100 percent. this mod is different, but you can still kick **obscenity** without a commander (except occasionally building stuff), I've seen it done.
a commander cant be in 20 places at once and the marines dont have to ask the commander for ammo every time they change a clip or lose some health, they yell at the commander because they "cant live without one around them all the time"
I truly hope you aren't saying that because things were changed there is an automatic imbalance. As was said, these changes were made after viewing the game under optimal circumstances where the teams were both played at their best. Under such circumstances, if one side consistently wins over another (marines over aliens for example) then this shows at least a slight imbalance. After noting this occurence, Flayra decided these changes should be made to prevent this from happening.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gwahir+Nov 13 2002, 12:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gwahir @ Nov 13 2002, 12:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I truly hope you aren't saying that because things were changed there is an automatic imbalance. As was said, these changes were made after viewing the game under optimal circumstances where the teams were both played at their best. Under such circumstances, if one side consistently wins over another (marines over aliens for example) then this shows at least a slight imbalance. After noting this occurence, Flayra decided these changes should be made to prevent this from happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who are you responding to, Gwahir?
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Nov 12 2002, 11:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 12 2002, 11:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The patch improved server performance and fixed the resource bugs. As for the balance issues it addressed -- Flayra made those changes after watching a few very talented clan matches, which led him to believe that a marine team that works effectively together (as is to be expected in a good clan match) will overpower an equally effective alien team. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am not in a clan, and haven't played clan matches. I'm sure its a little different. But from my perspective on the strategies and from what I've seen, this is very very true. I've actually said an excellent set of marine players will probably beat an excellent set of alien players. People keep complaining that marines are too weak, but it's just cause theres no teamwork.
I refuse to play on marines unless I know there are some good players on there. I absolutely hate joining the marine team and finding out they have no idea what they are doing, usually takes 5-10 minutes.. if I find out, I will usually just leave them to die and spectate.
TZARCON I must say you are right and I hate saying that because 3 days ago i made a post titled "Marines Overpowered?" After playing more and more I have realized its more inexperience than anything else. I am very happy with the game Execpt for those damn siege cannons man they **obscenity** me off. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> But thats only cuz im an alien 80% of the time. When im a marine i love them hehe. But from now on no more unbalanced post from me.
We'll start todays journey with a few logical reasonings:
1) Never on a pub server will there ever be optimal playing conditions, lag, etc. so the teams need to be balanced to account for the non-optimal playing conditions
2) Every server is not a clan match, so people aren't working pefectly together
3) The side was never unbalanced to marines, aliens always had a chance and I would see marines win some aliens win some before the patch, now it's just "Team 2 has won the game!!"
<!--QuoteBegin--ctx+Nov 13 2002, 03:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ctx @ Nov 13 2002, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This thread should really just die.
The game is balanced. Players jsut need to adapt and discover how to play and play well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hahaha. Wow. I think I'm going to go into every thread I see that I dislike and type a similar post. It's just absolutely brilliant! <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> ...and devoid of logical reasoning </span> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
you will find that after time the aparent imbalances will disapear as the players learn how to counter them. that is what makes this game so great, there is always a way to counter things.
lets say they release a patch that makes changes mainly in favour of the marines. straight after the patch is released those changes may mean the marines win all the time. however given another two or so weeks the aliens will learn to adapt and counter these tactics.
generally you will find that the loseing team will always develop skills faster than the winning team so over time the game will balance itself out...
Comments
How can u say that?? Fades have been beefed and marines down sized
Since the patch (2 days ago, yes I realize this) I have not seen a SINGLE marine win, except for the one time they rushed the hive very early in the game...
No matter how good my commander is, we've always lost after patch, at least before the patch Marines stood a chance....
And I'm not proposing to take the commander out, just don't have the team rely entirely on him, what if the Aliens had a Queen that could only build structures and supply health? That wouldn't be kewl would it? But if u had the Queen AND some defense chambers (healing) then it'd be alright
I dunno, I still say Fades are unbalanced )goes and makes Fade unbalanced sig(
We where aliens in a nothing game, we had powersilo and viaduct, marines early rushed cargo bay and took it, we where trying to advance trought the middle of the map when we see that the marines are sieging viaduct hive, we all try to save it but we get pretty much screwed by the ha´s, then theiggsta says over voicecomm: Damn, we are screwed, its all over....... WE LOST!!!.Then we all say stuff like: hey, be possitive, we will win and stuff like that, after a hard time fighting viaduct, i just get killed and i see a little gorge building a huge base behind their defending base at viaduct, so i go skulk and i help the gorge, cleaning everything up from marine spawn to cargo bay, then we all massivelly assaulted cargobay. Marines where using a lot phase gates so they never noticed the base the little gorge had built in the way <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->, after we took cargo bay we easily took care of viaduct defenses, then we where all laughing at iggsta because he sayed we had already lost when we all hear: THE HIVE IS UNDERATTACK!! THE HIVE IS DYING, then Sentrysteve yells: damn, we got a siege, gogogo, after a really hardcore battle (like 10 mins atleast) we took the siege off and rebuilt powersilo base, then i bugged the elev (mwhaahahah) so they couldnt bother us trought power silo anymore unless they attacked trought a whole wall of offensive towers and lotsa stuff =). After like 10 mins of constantly assaulting marines outposts till we got them cornered we all morphed into onos, and i mean ALL (we where like 7 onos atleast) we all rushed in at the same time, and destroyed the base. then we where all having fun when we notice that the game hasnt finished.... there where like 2 marines left around somewhere. One of them was hiding with a jetpack in the elev i bugged, he was with his shotgun all confident flying around having fun when i paralize him, he fell to the ground and broke all his bones, damn that was funny as hell. After like 10 secs another onos kills the last marine. This game is seriously balanced if you know how to play it, you can be dying and then getting close to the win when something you never expected happens and you get totally surprised. After that game we played a long nancy game and marines won (they totally destroyed us......) so this game is pretty much balanced the problem is that we dont know how we should play it, so we just complain about the balancing issues, but, there arent any........<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never before, in any of your posts, have you used such broken english. Iam ashamed.
Because of the patch:
If it was balanced before, it's unbalanced now.
If it is balanced now, then it was unbalanced before.
The fact is, you can't say that it has always been balanced, unless of course making some fundemental changes to the game doesn't have <b>any</b> affect on it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you knew more about the patch , you would know that it didn't change many things, it made it so that turrets will power down with the voidance of a turret factory and thats about it. All the other "balance issues" were BUGS that happened in the last second. The marine resource issue was a BUG that is now fixed, thus it is returned to normal.
I know what you mean Mol....
This one game I played, we only had 1 hive and 1 living Fade (me) with Remdemption. We were all just about to give up and goto the RR to start a new match. But then one gorge took our HUGE amount of RPs and built so many D chambers and O chambers he could. Then we made an attack on the marine's main base. We killed the one and only CC and infantry portals. Team Two Wins! I was so happy that we worked as a team to kill the marines and did not give up. The marines had the RPs to destroy us but they were all going HA/HMG and by themselves. Also they had at least 10 turrets in each captured hive (We had 3 hives before but were low on RPs so we could not really stop them). What a comeback! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I realize that the marine resource issue was a bug. But, just to clarify, are you saying that all the other changes in the patch, ie. damage of marine and alien weapons, the GL clip capacity, the changes in weapons and structures costs, etc. were all "bugs" that "happened at the last second"? If so, how? I'm serious. I'd like to know.
hence unbalance
this is true to some part, but you can have a crappy commander, and you dont have to rely on them 100 percent. this mod is different, but you can still kick **obscenity** without a commander (except occasionally building stuff), I've seen it done.
a commander cant be in 20 places at once and the marines dont have to ask the commander for ammo every time they change a clip or lose some health, they yell at the commander because they "cant live without one around them all the time"
Who are you responding to, Gwahir?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not in a clan, and haven't played clan matches. I'm sure its a little different. But from my perspective on the strategies and from what I've seen, this is very very true. I've actually said an excellent set of marine players will probably beat an excellent set of alien players. People keep complaining that marines are too weak, but it's just cause theres no teamwork.
I refuse to play on marines unless I know there are some good players on there. I absolutely hate joining the marine team and finding out they have no idea what they are doing, usually takes 5-10 minutes.. if I find out, I will usually just leave them to die and spectate.
I'll be your guide...
We'll start todays journey with a few logical reasonings:
1) Never on a pub server will there ever be optimal playing conditions, lag, etc. so the teams need to be balanced to account for the non-optimal playing conditions
2) Every server is not a clan match, so people aren't working pefectly together
3) The side was never unbalanced to marines, aliens always had a chance and I would see marines win some aliens win some before the patch, now it's just "Team 2 has won the game!!"
The game is balanced. Players jsut need to adapt and discover how to play and play well.
The game is balanced. Players jsut need to adapt and discover how to play and play well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahaha. Wow. I think I'm going to go into every thread I see that I dislike and type a similar post. It's just absolutely brilliant! <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> ...and devoid of logical reasoning </span> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If a marine follows commands and has a commander who gives waypoints and commands it takes a dam good alien team to even offer a good resitance
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->=- <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->=- <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> =-
lets say they release a patch that makes changes mainly in favour of the marines. straight after the patch is released those changes may mean the marines win all the time. however given another two or so weeks the aliens will learn to adapt and counter these tactics.
generally you will find that the loseing team will always develop skills faster than the winning team so over time the game will balance itself out...