Aliens Do Have Shared Resources!

Dark_Hand · November 2002

The biggest argument today on most servers has been the fact that the fewer gorges there are on a team, the faster they gain resources. Most people insult you when you mention it, but we tested it today and it seems to be true.

With no changes in resource towers:

6 gorges on the team, and their resources went up about 1 every 10-15 seconds.
1 gorge on the team, and his resources went up about 4-5 every 10-15 seconds.

And just now, we finally got our entire team convinced to have only one gorge. With the same teams, we had been beaten the last 4 games in a row, but with only one gorge we absolutely obliterated them, with a 5 fold increase in offensive and defensve towers.

So is it true? Are alien resources shared in the sense that the more that are spent, the fewer are available to go around and everyone else gains slower?

Woggy · November 2002

YES IT IS> I hate it when some stupid newbie argues with mea nd says having an amy of gorges is better than harrasing the marines. Stupid Stupid Stupid! Some newbies never listen.

m4rine · November 2002

Their is a pool of resources that get distributed to all of the players, gorges (for ovious reasons) get i think its a 30% (+ or -) priortity over resources so every 3 resources a skulk gets a gorge would get 4-5. And so when theres alot more of those gorges the single one dosnt get the priority (well he does but he dosnt notice it because everyone else gets it too) so its better to have 1-2 gorges per team then a army of them (even tho they are so cute!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'> )

ShadowDrgn · November 2002

Flayra posted up how it works before, and I'm pretty sure I've got it right.

your resource modifier = gorge? / (non-gorges + 3 * gorges)

gorge? is 1 if you're not a gorge, 3 if you are.

10 players on team:
10 Skulks, 00 Gorges: Skulks 10%, Gorges 00% each
09 Skulks, 01 Gorges: Skulks 8.3%, Gorges 25% each (25% total)
08 Skulks, 02 Gorges: Skulks 7.1%, Gorges 21% each (42% total)
07 Skulks, 03 Gorges: Skulks 6.3%, Gorges 19% each (57% total)
06 Skulks, 04 Gorges: Skulks 5.5%, Gorges 17% each (68% total)
05 Skulks, 05 Gorges: Skulks 5.0%, Gorges 15% each (75% total)
...
00 Skulks, 10 Gorges: Skulks 0.0%, Gorges 10% each

The total resources are calculated from how many resource nodes you have, and then multiplied by a factor that scales with the number of players on your team. I think you also get a bonus if the other team has more players than you, which is a ratio of larger/smaller team sizes.

As you can see, there's no magic number to the amount of gorges you should have, though clearly it's stupid to have everyone be a gorge. For one gorge to get resources as fast as possible, he should be the only gorge, but this only gives the team 25% of total resources to gorges, which isn't the fastest way to lay down more resource nodes early. More gorges means less resources per gorge, but more resources to gorges overall.

What's *really* hard to factor into this is the fact that players with max resources aren't counted at all in the equation. If every non-gorge on the team is full, the gorges are splitting up all the resources between themselves, which has huge potential. This is why it's bad to go gorge and die - it wastes 13 resources that could have been given to everyone else once you were full as a skulk. People have asked for a way to give other aliens resources - well this is how you do it.

Kobra · November 2002

Having 1 Gorge for every 5 players you have in your team is usually a good strategy. So if you have 10 players i your team, have 2 Gorges unless the situation demands more, but generally dont go above 3 Gorges at the same time.

Riskbreaker · November 2002

Well, I didn't know any of this. Thanks for clearing it up, guys. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Stormeh · November 2002

I hate when your whole team is gorges and you are a skulk trying to convince them that the fewer gorges the better.

oh, and nice info btw ShadowDrgn <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

justus · November 2002

yeah i knew this before.it is really annoying to have 5 gorgs in same team and what do they do?those noobs start to build offence turrets some highly clear areas where anyone can easily pop them out...just like it would purpose <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

deimos_telarin · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I hate when your whole team is gorges and you are a skulk trying to convince them that the fewer gorges the better.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>Duh.

When I see this, I usually call up the console and type /quit.

It's time to take a break and chill out. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

MercenaryForHire · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stormeh @ Nov 9 2002, 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I hate when your whole team is gorges and you are a skulk trying to convince them that the fewer gorges the better.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That usually calls for a "disconnect" or teamchange for me.

I'd rather play jarhead or on a new server than on a teamfull of utter n00bs who don't listen.
You're allowed to have >2 gorges if they just evolve, build an RT or OC farm, then Skulk again. But not 4 tubbys on a team of 6. That's just wrong.

- M4H

ShadowDrgn · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MercenaryForHire @ Nov 9 2002, 11:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
You're allowed to have >2 gorges if they just evolve, build an RT or OC farm, then Skulk again.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That's not *too* bad, but keep in mind that you just blew 17 resources for the team. If the resource tower was nowhere near any other gorge (and not near the marines), or you have to put off towers down or lose an important location, then go for it, but I wouldn't make a habit of doing this. I keep getting teams that go all gorges, and not only do we have no resources because of that, they let the marines take half the nozzles on the map. Ugh.

Techno-Kid · November 2002

well f00k. i got in an arguement with a guy about this on a server. i thought it was just how many people were on your team that determined the rate at which you got your resources in relation to how many resource nodes you had.

k. changing gorge policies now. wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

StoneToad · November 2002

Something that wasnt mentioed is that nongorge classes max out their resources fairly early. With one hive you can only get 33 res unless you are a gorge. After you've maxed your resources your share is split by the rest of your team.

BTS_Squirrel · November 2002

right. i agree. ive been telling people this ALL the time. its kinda sorry when a player who isnt really that good (me) is running the team, instructing the noobs on how to freaking use the right-click menu and build things. and then 30 seconds later they have the balls to tell me to **obscenity** off, and that they wanna stay a gorge.

aaargh.

matso · November 2002

I've done this calculation a few times now. Given an 8 player team, with two gorges building
two resource towers each before building anything else, you enter "hyper production" at the 8 minute spot. At that time, each of the two gorges get 50 resources per minute.

Oh, yes .. there is one VERY interesting little tidbit in the resource calculations. Dead Kharaa
don't get any resources.

So there is a very good reason why a single Gorge is the optimal solution at the start of the game, while the rest do a rush. Not only is it good to keep the marines down... the gorge can build the resource tower much faster if the Skulks spend some time being dead.

Lets see .. assuming the 7 skulk wave hit the marines at the 1 minute point, where the Gorge player evolves. Lets also assumes the assault is over at the moment the Gorge player emerges from the cocoon. Should have about 1 rp after evolving.

For 1/3 of a minute at 20 res per min, the Gorge gets 3/3 shares = 6.7 rp
Next 20 sec, its 3/4 shares = 4.5
Next 20 sec, its 3/5 shares = 4 rp

At the two minute point, the gorge has about 16 rp.

Next 20 sec, its 3/6 shares = 3.3 rp
Next 20 sec, its 3/7 shares = 2.9 rp

At about here, 2 minutes and 40 seconds into the game, the gorge has enough resources to build the first resource tower.

If _no_ skulk dies, the second resource tower goes up about five minutes into the game. The snowball effect of doubling the income two minutes earlier can be staggering. With one Gorge, and the rest of the team attacking hard and dying hard, it's quite possible that the Kharaa can get up their first hive well before the 10 minute mark.

Killbert · November 2002

I think the worst thing alien can do is to evolve to lerk early in game. Its not very good whitout umbra, and costs 33. So it puts your rp back to 0, and dont give extra rp to gorges. Ofcource if u can really use that lerk to make up for the 33 rp, go for it, but i sure can't do that, and don't think most of the others can either. So if alien skulk has 33/33 rp, don't feel the urge to spend it all.

TAUTheOMeGa · November 2002

Look at it this way, i will go lerk in teh early stages of the game to pick off and annoy marines.

Whenever you see a lerk at far distances you get annoyed right? and you probably wont attack them head on. This is the purpose of an early lerk.

Plus biting marines is fun with lerk. Its a good idea to start evolving when the 2nd hive starts building, but its not a total loss getting it before that.

NS allows different playing styles which is why this game has no wrong answers to any situation. Heck even 10 gorges busting out 999 babblers would be fun to watch <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'> !

-TAU|TheOMeGa

Draugluin · November 2002

Wow this is some great information.

Sunblaze · November 2002

I think what we need is a limit coded into NS so your whole team can't turn into gorges. 1 gorge for every 4 players on the team(ie.1-4 players can have 1 gorge max,5-8 can have 2 gorge max, and so on), and the limit is extended the more hives you get.

The n00bs never get it that less is better at the begining, and the aliens don't have anyway to enforce it since they don't have something like the commander.

Riskbreaker · November 2002

Couldn't servers put a limit on them, like a lot of them do with snipers in Day of Defeat?

TheGunslinger · November 2002

Currently if someone is saving for a hive and I have lots I hit F4. :\ Not sure what the morallity of this is. I think there should be a way to give your resources to the rest of the team, however, like toggling the inflow?

Seikeden · November 2002

What really bothers me is that I'm often the most experienced kharaa player on my team, and when I try nicely to ask people to not go gorge, etc. or if they must (and apparently they must <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>) please please please wait until you have enough resources to do something usefull; i.e. - 33, so you can build a resource tower.

Of course they never listen, at least one noob has to go gorge as soon as he has 13 resources, and sits around for 5 minutes doing nothing <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

This creates an annoying situation where i can either go gorge early to try and dissuade trigger happy skulks from evolving because there aren't any gorges yet, or go skulk and leave it up to inexperienced players (nothing more annoying then having 3 gorges waiting in each of the hives for 80 resources, not capping nodes, not doing anything just sitting there)

This makes me wonder, have these people played an rts before? They usually are about keeping control of resources, but these guys blatantly ignore this and .. eugh I give up. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

had to rant, feel better <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'>

Draugluin · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seikeden @ Nov 13 2002, 06:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What really bothers me is that I'm often the most experienced kharaa player on my team, and when I try nicely to ask people to not go gorge, etc. or if they must (and apparently they must <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>) please please please wait until you have enough resources to do something usefull; i.e. - 33, so you can build a resource tower.

Of course they never listen, at least one noob has to go gorge as soon as he has 13 resources, and sits around for 5 minutes doing nothing <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

This creates an annoying situation where i can either go gorge early to try and dissuade trigger happy skulks from evolving because there aren't any gorges yet, or go skulk and leave it up to inexperienced players (nothing more annoying then having 3 gorges waiting in each of the hives for 80 resources, not capping nodes, not doing anything just sitting there)

This makes me wonder, have these people played an rts before? They usually are about keeping control of resources, but these guys blatantly ignore this and .. eugh I give up. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

had to rant, feel better <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'm not sure I agree with you here. Gorges get a larger share of resources each time they are doled out, so having one person gorge immediately means he'll get that 22 resources for a res tower sooner than if he'd waited until he had 33. Yeah, maybe the gorge has to stand around doing jack for the first few minutes, but he'll be getting 3x as many resources than if he were skulk, and even more if the rest of the team is getting dead a lot while harassing the marines. Dead kharaa aren't counted.

See the previous posts here for the math.

Aliens Do Have Shared Resources!

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