A Question To Competitive Players

ToothyToothy ir-regard-less Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13447Members, Constellation
I'm currently making an NS map which I hope to submit for a future NS update.

However, instead of just making it aesthetically pleasing I've been trying hard to make it play well, and have been asking the opinions of several players from top NS clans about areas and how to improve them.

As with pretty much all maps, mine will include stairs. Now, I know that a lot of people hate stairs. The way the halflife engine works makes stairs a deathtrap for blinking fades, almost impossible to bunnyhop up (unlike ramps), and impossible to jump off as you're running down them.

So I had an idea, what if I do something like this:

<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/bh.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

The stairs are in grey, and appear as normal. The pink area is a solid that makes the stairs act as a ramp, but cannot actually be seen so it still looks like stairs.
Although a little misleading I think this would make life a lot easier, what do you think?

Comments

  • FromThisSoilFromThisSoil Join Date: 2004-08-24 Member: 30859Members, Constellation
    It makes sense I suppose.

    If you want it to look a certain way but need to do things a different way to make it work, so be it. It's thinking outside the box.
  • DragonMechDragonMech Join Date: 2003-09-19 Member: 21023Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think that would both look and function well. Good thinking. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • DelphiDelphi Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15134Members, Constellation
    Funny, I was always under the impression that certain stairs in maps functioned that exact same way.

    Good thinking on your part, however. It'll work great. Do eet.
  • pinkeyepinkeye Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23144Members, Constellation
    sounds interesting... hopefully it works <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Members, NS1 Playtester
    I tried this once before on a map that's since been lost. It works out OK, but if the stairs poke through at all they can cause unwanted effects. My suggestion would be to make the stairs into a func_illusionary and then overlay the clip brush on top of that. Makes it certain the little edges of the steps won't stick out and ruin your day.
  • RedfordRedford Monorailcatfjord Join Date: 2002-04-28 Member: 528Members, NS1 Playtester
    You'll run into ent problems if you are concerned about making the map official, is all I have to say. Also, wrong forum. We have a whole forum based on mapping, you know?
  • phunktionphunktion Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22883Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    it takes no entities to do that.. just apply the clip texture to the ramp.
  • ChargeCharge Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13144Members
    used this since i mapped for red faction <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • PheusPheus Join Date: 2003-01-30 Member: 12924Members
    yeah just clip it, that technique is used extensively in alot of games to make maps smoother to navigate them.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Oct 17 2004, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Oct 17 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'll run into ent problems if you are concerned about making the map official, is all I have to say. Also, wrong forum. We have a whole forum based on mapping, you know? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'd say this is the right forum, because competetive players is who he's trying to adress. Most competetive players stay away from the mapping forum.



    Anyhow yes that is a good idea. What is your layout toothy? Or your proposed layout? Maybe I could help you.
  • ToothyToothy ir-regard-less Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13447Members, Constellation
    Yes, I purposely didn't post this in the mapping forum because I presumed it wasn't frequently visited by competitive players.

    I'm not sure what you mean about entity limits Redford, it would only require one brush-based entity per flight of stairs?

    I don't have a layout on paper yet Forlorn, it's all in my head, but you're welcome to see the work in progress sometime if you like.
  • FinFin Join Date: 2004-06-26 Member: 29551Members
    edited October 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Oct 17 2004, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Oct 17 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'll run into ent problems if you are concerned about making the map official, is all I have to say.  Also, wrong forum.  We have a whole forum based on mapping, you know? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How about people like you stop being such aholes and help out for once. Have the respect to atleast explain yourself instead of giving some clever answer which makes you feel good about yourself while in reality your completely useless to him.


    I rememeber the time when the older community was friendly and helpful, and then they grew on themselves and now act as if someone who they don't know doesn't deserve the respect of a good reply. Heres a clue for you though, he isn't who you think he is and knows more about this community then you think.

    <span style='color:red'>[admin]How about you, (a) Calm down and moderate your agressive tone and (b) Learn not to attack people on this forum. If you have a gripe with a poster, take it to PM. Consider this a warning. Next infringement will result on a temp-ban... at least... [/admin]</span>
  • MrGunnerMrGunner Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11757Members, Constellation
    Also wide(deep) steps are better then stairs for going up shorter distances, and they make more sense then having ramps everywhere.
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    edited October 2004
    Just curious, couldn't you consider trying out to put the hive positions in a circle rather than a line which is how hives work atm?

    OK it didn't work trying to draw it with ascii, I'll just hope you understand anyway. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    There was already a map made where the hives were in a circle around marine start, yes? Wasn't it horribly unbalanced or something?
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited October 2004
    Use the CODE tag dragon_mech if you want to draw with ascii on the forums, the post looks almost exactly like how it did when you wrote it. I'm thinking you meant arrange them like this:<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->                H



    H                               H




                  MS<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
  • Gerald_R_FordGerald_R_Ford Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22544Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-5kyh16h91+Oct 17 2004, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (5kyh16h91 @ Oct 17 2004, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There was already a map made where the hives were in a circle around marine start, yes? Wasn't it horribly unbalanced or something? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ns_delta. Not a perfect circle, but having the top hive = alien loss automatically.
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    Nah I meant something more like:

    <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->


                            H
                                           H
                                 M
                         
                                H
    <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->

    Of course we would need vents and stuff so the marine don't just bork up the paths. But I still think it would be better balanced placing them this way rather than the currently, OMG SIDE HIVE FTL. Example Pipe and Sub is both considered less good than Cargo on Veil.
  • tankefugltankefugl One Script To Rule Them All... Trondheim, Norway Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
          H
              O
          H
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ... no?
  • The_IRSThe_IRS Join Date: 2003-11-30 Member: 23798Members
  • AAA7AAA7 Join Date: 2004-10-08 Member: 32153Banned
    well i really suck at like, when a skulk just jumps around a corner, without me hearing him, so if you can make the map made out of glass, that'd be tight. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    XCan, the obvious problem with that is that it puts marine spawn closer to both of the hives than the aliens' starting hive is...
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Oct 18 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Oct 18 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> XCan, the obvious problem with that is that it puts marine spawn closer to both of the hives than the aliens' starting hive is... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    True, that which is why I mentioned that a good vent-system would be needed. Also the paths to the hives from the MS doesn't necesarrily mean that they are in a straight line. Anyhow I just don't like the current system where we've marine spawn and the 3 hives more or less in a line.
  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    blame hl, the map grid just isnt big enough to allow those kinds of maps (the way that theyre balanced as well)
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