Ns_eclipse For V2

KungFuSquirrel · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">The wishlist... I'm going to regret this</div> I'm starting on revisions for ns_eclipse for the next major release of NS based upon my own feelings and general observations of comments from the post-release time frame. Here's what I plan to do so far:

-- Adjust marine spawn to be less closed off but yet still relatively defendable
-- Enhance Triad architecture
-- Additional alien vent routes where possible (especially 1 to MS, 1 to Eclipse command, and 1 to maintenance)

I don't plan to add any weldables just due to the fact that there's nothing in the design to justify them, and I'm extremely leery about adding any more entities after learning that entity counts are a contributing factor to the CPU problems we saw right after release. That doesn't mean I won't, but as of now I see no use for them.

Now is the part I know I'm going to regret... I'd like to hear from the community what (if anything) you would like to see added/adjusted/changed for V2 of Eclipse.

I'm very open to suggestions, but please do remember that in the end it's still my level and therefore my choice as to what modifications to make. So please don't hate me if I don't use your idea or implement it differently.

And please don't be silly or dumb, intentional or not. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

So yes. Suggest away.

Necro · November 2002

woooooo more vents!

i love eclipse <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

can't wait kfs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

ChromeAngel · November 2002

I am thoughly impressed by Eclipse as it is now, so this will be short.

Some of the corners around Eclipse Command and the Triad are almost totally unlit, i'd like to see some accent lighting around there.

<s>The illusionary ladders in Maintainence are just plain freaky, please clip them.</s>

If you have free texture memory more infestation textures at the hives would be a bonus.

KungFuSquirrel · November 2002

Please see the PT forum thread in regards to the Maintenance hive ladders.

I'm very close to just axing them in favor of a new hive room anyway. Meh.

ChromeAngel · November 2002

I'm <b>so</b> sorry KFS, I just saw that thread after I posted here. Forget the darn ladders, they're not significant.

BiTMAP · November 2002

give another way out for the marines maybe.. its too easy to lock em in as aliens.

Hades · November 2002

I dunno Ive never had a problem with the marine spawn..it has plenty of space and it has 2 exits that are usually farely easy to get out of with 2 other exits outside those.

That one spaceship level on the other hand...*shudder*

Fam · November 2002

The textures! Change the textures! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Well, unless it involves asking me to make you a gajillion more. In which case don't. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

KungFuSquirrel · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fopher @ Nov 11 2002, 01:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I can't tell you how many times I've gotten lost because the entrances to the next area are holes in the walls at random spots.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
/me twitches at the urge to note how deliberate every doorway placed was...

evoLvingeviL · November 2002

Let me get this straight... you're thinking about CHANGING ns_eclipse?!?! After its already been released? Am I the victim of some manic delusion?

Many would agree that ns_eclipse is the Dust, the 2Fort of NS! Perhaps you should make a brand-new eclipse2 instead?? If you can actually change the original, make it better than it already is without wrecking it... that may elevate your mapping ability from that of a mortal to that of a GOD!!!

JediYoshi · November 2002

*cough* ns_kara *cough*

I say.. more vents... brighter marine spawn..

Carbon14 · November 2002

Well, I must way that it's one of the best NS maps as is, the layout is the best part, nice and easy to learn, and the map has no opportunities for idiots to spoil the game, unlike Ns Nothing.

The only thing I don't like is the lack of vents and hiding places for the skulks.

BTW, can someone explain this ladder thing to me? I know what your talking about, I just want to know the reasons behind it.

evoLvingeviL · November 2002

Thanks, Jedi. I read the thread and, now I'm wondering what name KFS picked for that station... was it posted somewheres?

And I also agree, yeah, more light in marine spawn. And at first I thought vents would be a dumb idea, but maybe... hmm! Just try to make them different from all the other vents we've seen so far.

C0nan_The_Librarian · November 2002

Well I like eclipse as it is, especially that vent that leads down into triad showed those nasty marines. Although it would be cool to have more vents that go under the floorgrating, make it so the marines can semi see you (have pipes in the way) but cant shoot you. But ony the gameplay issue of the map I think its fine, although I dont really like maintinence hive but thats yours to do what you want with it.

Moleculor · November 2002

Just make a new map. You're thinking about changing Eclipse, the most popular map in NS? Were you dropped on your head, choked by the umbilical cord, and spanked too hard as a baby?

Just slip an invisible solid brush inside that illusionary ladder for Bob to climb up, and it'll be perfect. (-Maybe- add a few vents, but I'm not even sure that's necessary.)

Legionnaired · November 2002

The only gripe I have is the dark spots in the marine base, in between the node and the CC. The damn jarheads usually put their portals in there, so it's hard to find them during a seige. But other than that... I really can't think of anything, the whole map is just great.

KungFuSquirrel · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moleculor @ Nov 11 2002, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Just slip an invisible solid brush inside that illusionary ladder for Bob to climb up, and it'll be perfect.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Molec, no offense, but die.

How many goddamned times are you going to bring up this 'bug?'

Skulk and Lerk code causes ladders to be illusionary. I leave it as it is now, 2 alien classes can pass through ladders that they can't even use in the first place. Oh boo hoo. I change it to be clipped off, Skulks and Lerks run into the ladders they still can't use. More people **obscenity**. I get more **obscenity** off at you for trying to convince me to change it in the first place. I make it an invisible solid brush, Skulks can then climb the ladder they don't even need while lerks still run into it and **obscenity** about how they can't use it and everyone else **obscenity** about how they can't shoot through it.

I'd gladly pull Eclipse from V 1.1 if it'd mean the end of this **obscenity**. If I even hear you say 'ladder' one more time...

To everyone else, I don't normally respond to suggestions like this, and I really DO listen to them, but I tend to make an exception in the event of posts that 1) question my judgement on <b>my own</b> map, especially with the whole dropped on my head as a baby thing and 2) Repeatedly pester me about a map bug that is <b>NOT</b> a map bug that I have stated numerous times will <b>NOT</b> be changed because no matter what I do someone will **obscenity** about how it should be different. I assure you I have not even thought this about any other suggestions -- please understand that I've been **obscenity** as hell about this one for a while, and it keeps getting brought up by ONE person.

Then again, I'm tempted to burn my hard drive, buy the copyrights to Eclipse, sue the NS team to have it removed from the release, at which time I jump headfirst out of my fifth floor dorm room while juggling numerous sharp objects. Problem solved.

DruBo · November 2002

people, please try to remember that it is KFS's unrelenting self-criticism that made ns_eclipse what it is today. It's come a long way, and so has he.

KFS: don't kill yourself over molec's stupidity, it's to be expected of him. Just accept that.
Suggestions? change the sky, it sux0rs (Hi Chal. Just kidding. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'> ) ... brighten up the marine spawn a <i>tiny</i> bit, maybe with texture lights... and make some sort of map hazard, like a pit o' screaming doom or an airlock that cycles sometimes when you least expect it.

Oh, and get back to work on ns_kara sometime in the near future. I'd like to see the trilogy done before my 20th birthday.

CrouchingHamster · November 2002

Helpful Tip #834

Some decaff coffee is actually quite nice.

BiTMAP · November 2002

I think the map is pretty good as it is. (love your textures too)

Windelkron · November 2002

Make the infestation apparent in brushes, more out from the actual hive location. What I mean is ... for example the only time you see "infestation" apparent in actual brushes is inside the hive room. Make tendrils of alien creep in the hallways outside of the hive rooms, not just the creep "texture."

Also, (forgive me if this already is there; haven't played eclipse in a while) make the thresholds of the doors lower than the ceilings, so that skulks can hide above the doorways without being seen.

Also might want to add alot of steam or fog near the Computer Core hive.

evoLvingeviL · November 2002

I disagree with steam or fog... I don't think it would fit into Eclipse, and would cause a small but significant amount of unecessary lag.

BiTMAP · November 2002

hey how do you get the fog to work??

Tabris · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BiTMAP @ Nov 12 2002, 06:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>hey how do you get the fog to work??</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'd like to know this as well.

Vyvn · November 2002

Yes yes, we'd all like to know how fog works, but this isn't exactly the place to bring it up. Try one of the particle system guides out there.

Quite honestly, I can think of few things that should be changed about Eclipse, and even fewer that haven't already been named. I really like the way this map looks--there is no "questionable" texturing that doesn't really fit together, and the lighting is just amazing.

The changes that I would agree with are more signs of alien infestation, like broken computers, more alien growth, and also adding some more lips above doorways for skulks to lurk above. The *only* thing that stands out in my mind gameplay-wise is the Command Hive, It seems a bit too close to the marine spawn and too far from the Maintenance Hive, making it too easy to assault the marines from, but difficult to fall back and help a different hive in trouble. I don't feel that more vents are *necessary*--maybe the reason that some people feel there aren't enough is just that they can be a little tricky to find, which is certainly not a problem, they blend in great with the setting.

Overall, this map needs nothing, but if you want to bring it a step closer to that unattainable perfection, go right ahead.

BiTMAP · November 2002

there is that one dead end near the marine exit, i dunno It would be nice to have something there ...

(The fog is an entity, so It's not coverd by particle system guides)

Vyvn · November 2002

I'm pretty sure that an env_fog is not what was used for things like the fog corridor in Hera. Rather, I think it was just a string of "fog" sprites placed in a row. I really don't know, ask Merk or someone who actually knows what they're on about. Come to think of it, no, it probably wasn't done using the ps after all.

Battousaix · November 2002

This corridor on computer core, its pitch black <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'> i cant even find the legs of the marines to chomp em D=
and, maybe add more nodes, anyways i love eclipse just the way it is....

Edit: env_fog was removed, you have to use the particle system to make fogs.....

Insane · November 2002

Env fog was removed because basically, it didn't work.

And yes Hera uses a set of "fog" sprites to create the effect in the "fog corridor".

Or, you could use the particle system.

Spooge · November 2002

I'm amazed you've lasted this long without losing your wits, KFS. Congrats on a great map btw.

The only thing I'd suggest is maybe a little more room to build near one resource node. I forget the exact area (I'm still memorizing the maps) but the hallways are narrow, the resource node is at the bottom of a short ramp and the hallway at the top of the ramp is in a "T" position. I hope that makes some sense. But, it's your map so I'm sure you can figure out that location.

There just doesn't seem to be enough room to efficiently build and move in that area. It doesn't need to be doubled in size or anything but a little more wiggle room would be appreciated (by your friendly neighborhood gorge <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> ).

folk · November 2002

double resource nodes inside the triad gen. area. currently, not enough goes on there. in the games i've been in, most of the fighting has focused between the marine start and the maintenance hive. if you think this would change gameplay too much, ignore me and go back to swimming in that little "i win" pool.

Ns_eclipse For V2

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