Ha Counter
theclam
Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
How do you guys counter HA trains?
Skulks die too quickly. I don't know how effective xeno is, I only rarely kill HAs with it.
Lerks can't spore and biting will make you die just as fast as a skulk.
Gorges can spit from far away, but that does too little damage. Web is helpful but only slows the train down and you need 3 hives.
Fades have to hit and run, only swiping once or twice. Acid rocket does less damage than gorges do. Any decent team (even in pubs) can use welders + med packs to prevent a heavy from dying to such a hit and run attack.
Onos can stomp and devour, but that can be risky depending on the map, and Onos are expensive.
So, how do you stop HA trains as an alien? These tactics are more of a war of attrition rather than an effective way to stop the train. Is the only good strategy just using teamwork to take them down one by one or do they have a hard counter?
Skulks die too quickly. I don't know how effective xeno is, I only rarely kill HAs with it.
Lerks can't spore and biting will make you die just as fast as a skulk.
Gorges can spit from far away, but that does too little damage. Web is helpful but only slows the train down and you need 3 hives.
Fades have to hit and run, only swiping once or twice. Acid rocket does less damage than gorges do. Any decent team (even in pubs) can use welders + med packs to prevent a heavy from dying to such a hit and run attack.
Onos can stomp and devour, but that can be risky depending on the map, and Onos are expensive.
So, how do you stop HA trains as an alien? These tactics are more of a war of attrition rather than an effective way to stop the train. Is the only good strategy just using teamwork to take them down one by one or do they have a hard counter?
Comments
If 5 skulks rush in altogether with umbra support, they'll get at least one HA and severely maul the others, repeat.
And onos...you gotta be good with onos. I NEVER die as a two hive onos, and you just gotta know when to retreat. Stomp pretty much triples the value of the onos. You can also use onos as a meatshield and then stomp spam and let your skulks chew the hapless HA.
Trust me, HA are far from invincible if you have at least one or two people who know what they're doing. But you need to have a second hive.
Edit: Spelling.
Hope you live? Remember...stomp.
Besides, it's not like a person with the least ounce of intelligence would charge Cargo from Fusion in ns_tanith while all the HA are on the boxes and therefore immune to stomp and the onos hopes to come back alive.
Corridors.
No, but with skulks with leap and umbra, they will kill something.
I find the most importent thing is, if the marines have a heavy trian then theres not many rambos out on patrols, so one skulk should go out and chomp down as many RTs as possible since killing hevies doesn't do any good if rines just have res to replace them over and over again
Generally, holding the first sentence in stride, with enough evolved lifeforms the aliens could push back a HA squad even with one hive. However, that would mean mostly fades and perhaps a couple of onos attacking together. With two hives, it becomes relatively easier - umbra helps tremendously, while stomp is good for relatively flat surfaces. Three hives it is pretty simple - two gorges can pretty much stop a HA train by web-trapping while other aliens distract. Onos at three hives can use the classic charge-devour-charge technique, running off with one HA at a time. Fades continue being fades and can rip HAs to pieces if the marines are not careful. It really isn't that hard to stop a HA train, even with bare skulks at hive2, you can still get in quite a bit of damage. With xenocide at hive3, you soften up the HAs to make them fall easily to other lifeforms. Finally, Lerks' primal scream is devastating as well.
Generally, holding the first sentence in stride, with enough evolved lifeforms the aliens could push back a HA squad even with one hive. However, that would mean mostly fades and perhaps a couple of onos attacking together. With two hives, it becomes relatively easier - umbra helps tremendously, while stomp is good for relatively flat surfaces. Three hives it is pretty simple - two gorges can pretty much stop a HA train by web-trapping while other aliens distract. Onos at three hives can use the classic charge-devour-charge technique, running off with one HA at a time. Fades continue being fades and can rip HAs to pieces if the marines are not careful. It really isn't that hard to stop a HA train, even with bare skulks at hive2, you can still get in quite a bit of damage. With xenocide at hive3, you soften up the HAs to make them fall easily to other lifeforms. Finally, Lerks' primal scream is devastating as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have three hives, chances are you won't even see heavy armor.
Same concept applys if you only have 1 Hive, but you're going to have to throw in a good helping of luck, because you don't have that much staying power.
When the train gets 1-wall-to-hive situation you are scerwed. Time is desprarately running out of you while more mines are dropped to pg/tf....
Best bet is to hold them far away from hive...
Should the train get too close to a hive, then attack the CC as fade. Try to set off their beacon so they're back at the base.
Once a HA train settles with a TF, PG and turrets, things become harder. The onos will need to stomp at his best in order to give the rest of the team a chance.
Of course if you're down to 1 hive, you deserve to loose <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Keep skulking them and you may be lucky...just don't count on it.
*sings*4 fades harassing, 3 skulks leaping, 2 lerks umbraing, ONE ONOS PEAKING!!!!
Sorry, it sounded like a song to me....
At two hives you're looking at skulks, fade blinkswipers, and Onos stomp spam. Serious stomp spam. If you happen to have picked up focus then a stomp rush stands a good chance of swiss cheesing an AVERAGE train. If the marines know how to dodge stomp, or your onos is a fool, then you're going to have to sweat for those kills. Carapace should be the upgrade of choice and keep gorges nearby with either more DCs, adren healspam, or ideally both. If you have SCs as one of your two hives then unleash the Focus. If you're at two hives but have all three chambers then your strat won't significantly differ from the following one..
At three hives you can stomp spam followed by xeno spam. Knockback tweaks mean any landbound HA isn't going to be flying too far, and also leaves him wide open for swipekills. Also at three hives you WILL have sensory so focus becomes your new best friend. HA trains will not last long against coordinating 3 hive aliens, and all going well you'll have stripped them of their nodes so that the HA train will NOT be repeated.
At all hives after you repel an HA train, be sure to expand and rip apart any res node thats not yours. Hopefully the marines will be starved of res from their failed train, and you can consolidate heavily. If they have lots of res, simply repel each train until you've enough time to wipe the nodes, then proceed to the marine base.
Do NOT ignore the HA train in order to get the nodes. An HA train doesn't generally need much more res spent on it once its made, and if you're all halfway across the map attacking nodes then the HA train stands a better chance of nuking the hives. Remember, hives are expensive and marines can get a lot of RFK if the aliens defending said hives are not numerous. Repel the HA first, then go for the nodes.
A risky strat is if you happen to be in the marine base... sometimes comms ignore their base because they think the HA train is about to win. IF, and only IF you are in base when the HA train hits, then proceed to hit something useful like the Obs or the arms lab. No obs means no bacon, and retreating HA trains will NOT outrun aliens. No arms lab means no more HA. Do NOT ignore HA trains in order to rush a marine base because the comm will simply relocate to the HA train, or worse still to the hive the HA train has just cleared. You do NOT want to be facing a lockdown against a well teched HA train.
*sings*4 fades harassing, 3 skulks leaping, 2 lerks umbraing, ONE ONOS PEAKING!!!!
Sorry, it sounded like a song to me.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lawl munch your a nub ^_~
and yeah, if you take out the armslab the armour of the HA suddenly drops down to 200 and the weapons suddenly go to lvl 0, which is very helpfull.
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munch not much, and I know him in real life so no getting offended that I called him a nub
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umbra + repeated leaping skulks + fade hit and runs will maul a HA train eventually.. just got to know WHERE to attack.. if your pounding em down a long coridoor your a moron etc.
onos + stomp make it easy.. but it CAN be done with 2 hives for spawn rate mc in hives for mass attack, carra/regen cele/adre/silence fade, and lerk umbra support.. also gorges spit/heal combo's can do some damage and destract some fire too. basicly u just need to act as a team on 2 hives.. u DO NOT <b><u>NEED</u></b> and onos.
i've seen 2 1 hive carra fades and 2 gorges fight off HA trains aswell, with some occasional cleverly timed skulk attacking.. (not poor marining eitherm, just teamwork)
Umbra/gorge support be helpfull.
Regen and adren. Stomp alot, backwalk while stomping, turn and freaking RUN.
...A good observation. When the heavies discover their supply of crisp and tasty bacon has been cut off, they'll most likely just abort the whole operation and retreat to base. Can't fight a war without bacon, no sir.
/been lurking
/have many spelling errors of my own
/"obs" sounds like obst, which is german for fruit. Two food references in a sentance having nothing to do with food. Gee, i must be a hungry college student or something...
/enough with the comments already
umbra.
*sings*4 fades harassing, 3 skulks leaping, 2 lerks umbraing, ONE ONOS PEAKING!!!!
Sorry, it sounded like a song to me.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lawl munch your a nub ^_~
and yeah, if you take out the armslab the armour of the HA suddenly drops down to 200 and the weapons suddenly go to lvl 0, which is very helpfull.
[edit]
munch not much, and I know him in real life so no getting offended that I called him a nub
[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? you think thats an excuse to flame me?! Just wait till I come back home...
lol
Two hives parasite em and track em, and set up a skulk ambush. Onos would be ideal, largely to stomp and soak up some damage, fades are usually first to go, since they're not as intimidating as an onos, but much more valuable than a skulk, therefore they usualluy aim for the fade first. Onos is also in danger, but most HA are so afraid of getting devoured that you can get them to stop in their tracks.
A HA is really strong when its with other HA. You get one by himself, two or three skulks can take him down fairly easily. Do anything you can to break the HA up. Usually the GL is the easiest to take out, since his pistol is his only close range weapon, HMG'rs require a bit more finesse, get them to run out of ammo, and then on the reload he's pretty much yours, as far as the shotty is concerned, again the reload is your best chance, but a shotty and a HA is pretty deadly up close.
Three hives HA are pretty easy to take down, xeno and more xeno, and if they get close, Web em up.
If you're defending a hive with 2 hive fade, those HAs wont have enough time to weld each other if you just keep hitting and hitting them all over the time. And when they shoot, at least 50 shots is used from HMG, and you regen with hive and few DCs in around 4-5 seconds, barely enough for them to reload. And if you just blink-swipe blink-swipe all over, they dont know when youre coming back, and they dont dare to reload. Cara fades ARE really dangerous. I once took out a 6 rine HA train in a pub match as a cara+focus fade (except they built a PG and those HAs kept pouring in but finally I got some backup and cleaned them up). So stomping onos with few skulks is your best bet or against 2 HAs (with SGs especially) 1 onos will do the trick, with or without stomp.
EATEATEATEATEAT!
Stomp is awesome for stoppin HT's
Just get 3 or 4 skulks to xeno em while they're stunned, take out the pg and ure good! gore works ok too
4 gores only does 360 damage.
You'll need 6 gores to kill even a vanilla HA.