re marine rts. I think a small but very useful boost would be the ability for skulks to take down an RT without having to stop to replinish adrenaline. Simply decreasing the amount of adrenaline bite uses is going to knock 3 or 4 seconds on the time it takes to eat a RT and i think it'd be a welcomed boost.
If you play an RTS like star craft you will see that a big element of it is alot like a really complex assortment of layers upon layers of stone-paper-scissor.
One strategy defeats another, and another strategy defeats that and a another... etc. .... and another strategy defeats the first. You might have a strategy that's very difficult to counter if I don't know about it, but if I guess that you are going to take it I can defeat you, but if you guess that I guessed that you will use that strategy and you decide to counter my counter then the tables are turned again. This is what makes star craft so darned addictive and this is something NS never really had to any great extent. Anything that promotes this and anything that promotes team work should at least be given a thought.
recently, in high level clan matches/scrims, i've found myself taking upon the role of the res node killing and control on alien side for a variety of reasons that are unimportant..
AND IT ISN'T FUN
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>it's boring</span> these nodes take a while to kill on your own.. it takes an entire bar and a half of skulk bites to kill one marine res node, it reminds me of baseguarding in 1.04 with my clan back then
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>unable to kill res nodes as a group of aliens</span> often you can only have one skulk sneaking around killing the marine nodes in the background while the fades, gorges, and other defending skulks are busy fighting marines and keeping them from expanding into key areas (which takes too much effort) this means one dude is stuck on all of these nodes (this is an entire game of work) at times without seeing the enemy at all
by comparison to a pressure group of marines who have a duty of killing the res nodes in early game, the difference is staggering. with marine weapon range or structure owning shotguns, they can brutalize nodes quickly and easily because they can concentrate on them together as a group
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>quick replenishment</span> the marines are constantly able to put up new nodes which are just as strong as the one you just killed, sometimes as quickly as you killed it IN THE SAME SPOT
the great teams have commanders that are CONSTANTLY building nodes.. with such an excess of nodes early on almost every weak alien team is bested, simply because the time it would take to destroy all of those nodes is almost impossible without some sort of sacrifice of defence elsewhere of extreme importance
<span style='color:red'>-----------</span> this isn't just a problem of gameplay for that once skulk put on res duty, it's a gameplay problem for everyone.. no, not because that teamate's going to get **** off and leave eventually, because at the highest levels of competitive play this is the key to winning any game.
I look at this and see repetitiveness. identical strategies that all incorporate and stem from the spamming excess of res nodes everywhere and applying pressure elsewhere.. what's the point of a beautiful strategy when deep down a commander knows that you've won when the aliens don't have the time or ability to down any nodes because the game is unbalanced in this aspect
so what I was trying to say in this crappy post was: <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>your idea of reducing the cost and durability of res nodes is very appealing and should come to the attention of whoever overlooks the future of ns</span>
this would be a very welcome babystep toward enjoyability and balance
One reason I stopped going Fade in pubs was because marine res nodes were NOT being munched.
I would clearly call them out over voice comm to my team, since a Fade has more important things to be doing than killing a res node. But I don't really blame my teammates for not munching those nodes... it's boring as **** and people pub to have fun. Munching nodes isn't fun.
So, I drop the hive instead and keep killin' and munchin'.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Jun 2 2004, 11:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Jun 2 2004, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>RFK should be removed for marines.</span> I don't think RFK adds anything to the individual gameplay for marines. All it does is help to break the game on large servers. It also encourages all kinds of tedious gameplay, like protracted endgames, Heavy Trains off one or two nodes, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Absolutely no question. Gorges have no need for it either. Actually I don't care if RFK is removed altogether and think that may be the easiest best solution in the long run. (certainly is from a coding standpoint)
But removing marine RFK in at least ns_ maps needs to be done <span style='color:red'>ASAP</span>. It's gone on long enough, marine turtles and rambos need to die. This is my #1 most important, need to change soon about NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Unchain Upgrade Chambers</span> While this increases the tactical flexibility of kharaa and reduces the marines' ability to simply counter any chamber the kharaa have, it will actually serve to soak up more of the alien team's early resources.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's my #2.
<!--QuoteBegin-taft+Oct 7 2004, 03:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Oct 7 2004, 03:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> recently, in high level clan matches/scrims, i've found myself taking upon the role of the res node killing and control on alien side for a variety of reasons that are unimportant..
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>your idea of reducing the cost and durability of res nodes is very appealing and should come to the attention of whoever overlooks the future of ns</span>
this would be a very welcome babystep toward enjoyability and balance <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have been lobbying for Talesin's excellent idea to debuff things and especial structure HP.
Lower HP structures and weaker automated defenses means more powershifts and that's GOOD.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 7 2004, 05:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 7 2004, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you have to remember though. aliens are able to respond faster to a RT under attack, and aliens need far less rez nodes to be effective. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No.... marines need far less res to be effective. I've never seen aliens win a prolonged match with only 3 RTs.
you've probably seen games on maps like ns_veil where marines can basically hold off the aliens even if the aliens have three hives and the entire map capped for a long time
marines don't need nearly as much res to prosper as the aliens do
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Jun 2 2004, 11:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jun 2 2004, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens also need a lifeform between skulk and fade that is an attack class. Lerk is a fine as a support class, and gorges are needed for obvious reasons, but there should be some sort of SOMETHING that can function as an assault class between the li'l skulk and the blinking fade of doom. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Listen to these simple words of wisdom, and your life will be fulfilled. It's hard I tell you to ambush a base of turrets that have aimbot with skulks. Just some lightweight base breaker... Add that as a hive one creature and chained lifeforms will be fine again.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Why not beef the effectiveness of upgrades for skulks (by say...2 folds?) and then beef up the lerk? I think lerks can be fine as the in-between class. I personally want umbra at hive 1, and get rid of spores. Give spikes at hive2 hehe.
(It's summer vacation, you know, and the authors have a lot better things to do than fix their games. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all first you all need to take a look at this if you haven't, Talesin's I&S thread:
Removed because I don't want to create spam mail for developers especially when they are not paid. They don't need to be pushished for their love of the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Make Kharaa Resource Towers free or very cheap WTH is he smoking? I hear you cry. Well, think about it. Marines have no difficulty in destroying them, so spamming them on nozzles near to marine spawn would make little difference to the kharaa. Besides which, Kharaa RTs have a hidden cost of 10rps that has to be paid for the gorge. This would encourage kharaa to be more adventurous in gaining resources, free up RPs for evolutions or additional chambers and make losing chambers early in the game less of a death knell to the team. It would also help bigger games by helping kharaa in their attempts to control resources and by delaying marines at the very least.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the first time you evolve gorge get your first structure FREE! (except <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> of course)
maybe more like 10 res free, you know. whatevah
you would have to make sure this idea cant be exploited though
<!--QuoteBegin-|ds|meatshield+Oct 8 2004, 06:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Oct 8 2004, 06:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why not beef the effectiveness of upgrades for skulks (by say...2 folds?) and then beef up the lerk? I think lerks can be fine as the in-between class. I personally want umbra at hive 1, and get rid of spores. Give spikes at hive2 hehe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> are you joking? spores are RIDONCULOUS <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Dragon_Mech+Oct 7 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dragon_Mech @ Oct 7 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 7 2004, 05:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 7 2004, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you have to remember though. aliens are able to respond faster to a RT under attack, and aliens need far less rez nodes to be effective. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No.... marines need far less res to be effective. I've never seen aliens win a prolonged match with only 3 RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> uhm aliens can easily win a prolonged (10+ minutes) with 3 nodes and 2 hives... in fact I'd say the game is in their favor at that point, unless marines have all other 6-8 nodes and a proto lab up....
Pubbers just don't realize the power of some things <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Oct 15 2004, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Oct 15 2004, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dragon_Mech+Oct 7 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dragon_Mech @ Oct 7 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Oct 7 2004, 05:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Oct 7 2004, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you have to remember though. aliens are able to respond faster to a RT under attack, and aliens need far less rez nodes to be effective. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No.... marines need far less res to be effective. I've never seen aliens win a prolonged match with only 3 RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> uhm aliens can easily win a prolonged (10+ minutes) with 3 nodes and 2 hives... in fact I'd say the game is in their favor at that point, unless marines have all other 6-8 nodes and a proto lab up....
Pubbers just don't realize the power of some things <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By 'prolonged' I mean 45-60 minute games or longer. 10 minutes is a combat match.
45-60 minutes is pubtastic. If aliens have just 2 nodes/2 hives up for 10 minutes and are keeping marine nodes fairly contained, they'd pretty much have a bunch of Lerks/Fades/Onii and a building third Hive across the team. If they don't, they're just sitting on their ****.
So theres no really valid reason to say aliens can't last on fairly few nodes. They're actually several times better at it than marines.
<!--QuoteBegin-waller+Oct 16 2004, 12:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (waller @ Oct 16 2004, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Rines always seem to win in those evil pubs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If the aliens drop a hive then I'd say the chance is 70% that they win if the marines have an incompetent commander.
Commanders are the biggest reason why marines lose on pubs, pub commanders neer tend to push and take down the building hive = lose.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Oct 16 2004, 02:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Oct 16 2004, 02:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 45-60 minutes is pubtastic. If aliens have just 2 nodes/2 hives up for 10 minutes and are keeping marine nodes fairly contained, they'd pretty much have a bunch of Lerks/Fades/Onii and a building third Hive across the team. If they don't, they're just sitting on their ****.
So theres no really valid reason to say aliens can't last on fairly few nodes. They're actually several times better at it than marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhh... no? I'm not talking about a 45 minute game where one team can't get off its collective a$$ & finish the game. A <b><u><i>GOOD</b></i></u> 45-60 minute game is highly dynamic and boatloads of fun. In one instance on ns_tanith aliens had taken two hives, the marines had double and the third hive was in contest for at least half an hour. During the entire match nobody had more than three or four RTs for more than a minute, as a couple of marines and two dedicated skulks literally spent most of the match RT hunting.
The third hive was first taken by the marines and locked down with a PG in the first 10 minutes. It was then cleared out by fades and the the hive was built. Before it was completed the marines sucessfully sieged it out and fortified it - only to be trampled by an onos and two lerks 15 minutes later. Once the hive was going up again (built by your favorite Fatty!) the marines pulled a heavy train out of nowhere and beat the game through concentrated firepower in short order.
Even though the marines never had more than 4 nodes for longer than a minute or two they still had the res to keep upgrading and to tech up to HA. I didn't see any oni in the last bit of the game despite roughly equal res flow.
RFK needs to go, or turn into a neglected server side cvar. Reduced cost rt/stronger/free? Hm I dont think so. Persistant upgrades until changed otherwise, sure! (alien)
Gorge res boost! A thoughtless res system tweak to compensate for the lack of gorge bling could be safely done by putting the gorges as a whole on a higher res plateau. Depending on how much extra gorge bling you have accumulated, you would have a +(res#) next to your res bar. This extra gorge bling amount would be subtracted from your bank upon lifeform gestation, and given back to the gorge population. Therefore this extra bling would only be usable in the league of the limp walks. The slight extra bling should be compensated by the iced out lifeforms that dont have a limp, sorta like the old bling distribution system, only that the swank threaded' gorge sugar daddies wouldn't be prime for hoes that didn't hand over the bread since that extra bling couldn't be used for lifeform gestation!
Bring back the 60-90 delay before an RT starts harvesting. Make it a priority to protect. As it is, if you kill my nodes after they've been there 2 minutes, it was worth it. If I know it'll take at least 4 minutes to make back the cost, I'll be more apt to protect it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dragon_Mech+Oct 16 2004, 01:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dragon_Mech @ Oct 16 2004, 01:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Oct 16 2004, 02:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Oct 16 2004, 02:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 45-60 minutes is pubtastic. If aliens have just 2 nodes/2 hives up for 10 minutes and are keeping marine nodes fairly contained, they'd pretty much have a bunch of Lerks/Fades/Onii and a building third Hive across the team. If they don't, they're just sitting on their ****.
So theres no really valid reason to say aliens can't last on fairly few nodes. They're actually several times better at it than marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhh... no? I'm not talking about a 45 minute game where one team can't get off its collective a$$ & finish the game. A <b><u><i>GOOD</b></i></u> 45-60 minute game is highly dynamic and boatloads of fun. In one instance on ns_tanith aliens had taken two hives, the marines had double and the third hive was in contest for at least half an hour. During the entire match nobody had more than three or four RTs for more than a minute, as a couple of marines and two dedicated skulks literally spent most of the match RT hunting.
The third hive was first taken by the marines and locked down with a PG in the first 10 minutes. It was then cleared out by fades and the the hive was built. Before it was completed the marines sucessfully sieged it out and fortified it - only to be trampled by an onos and two lerks 15 minutes later. Once the hive was going up again (built by your favorite Fatty!) the marines pulled a heavy train out of nowhere and beat the game through concentrated firepower in short order.
Even though the marines never had more than 4 nodes for longer than a minute or two they still had the res to keep upgrading and to tech up to HA. I didn't see any oni in the last bit of the game despite roughly equal res flow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Im sorry. But because your team didn't have the insight to have enough onos to counter the heavies. so maybe what. 9 heavies? take 3 onos. and you win. you should have had 3-5 onos by taht time. If most of your team was gorging, then you deserve to lose. a 10 vs 10 game should have 2 early lerk, 2 early fades, 2 rez hore onos. or my personal favorate. 5 gorges, 5 fades. ive seen it where there were 8 gorges, a fade and a lerk. then the alein team crys due to a loss. Dont get me wrong, I still implore you to gorge, but you gotta know when to build, when to save, and when to become a more advanced lifeform. Did you have anyone trying to take out their advnaced armory?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->?? AnyOne trying to take out thier arms lab? what about killing thier proto while its upgrade. or maybe even having 1 onos harass mstart, 1 onos harase an outpost. the other one defends, when the heavys leave thier base, have the onos hit thier advanced armory. they will prob becon. or those thier advanced. after you kill that armory, kill thier proto. or obs or what not.
It was a 7 on 7 match, not 10 on 10. We never had more than one onos because we didn't have the res. You act like we had 30 RTs. Read my post - nobody had more than 4! We worked together and only had about 2 gorges at any one time - I permagorged and everyone else tempgorged when they had enough res for an RT. Yet while we were starving for res, the marines had plenty to keep upgrading and teching up.
I would really like to see a server where, in a 10 v 10 match, the aliens have 310 res just lying around to get two fades, two lerks and a couple of oni. Unless there was a res balancer plugin I've yet to see it happen.
Comments
One strategy defeats another, and another strategy defeats that and a another... etc. .... and another strategy defeats the first. You might have a strategy that's very difficult to counter if I don't know about it, but if I guess that you are going to take it I can defeat you, but if you guess that I guessed that you will use that strategy and you decide to counter my counter then the tables are turned again. This is what makes star craft so darned addictive and this is something NS never really had to any great extent. Anything that promotes this and anything that promotes team work should at least be given a thought.
AND IT ISN'T FUN
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>it's boring</span>
these nodes take a while to kill on your own.. it takes an entire bar and a half of skulk bites to kill one marine res node, it reminds me of baseguarding in 1.04 with my clan back then
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>unable to kill res nodes as a group of aliens</span>
often you can only have one skulk sneaking around killing the marine nodes in the background while the fades, gorges, and other defending skulks are busy fighting marines and keeping them from expanding into key areas (which takes too much effort) this means one dude is stuck on all of these nodes (this is an entire game of work) at times without seeing the enemy at all
by comparison to a pressure group of marines who have a duty of killing the res nodes in early game, the difference is staggering. with marine weapon range or structure owning shotguns, they can brutalize nodes quickly and easily because they can concentrate on them together as a group
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>quick replenishment</span>
the marines are constantly able to put up new nodes which are just as strong as the one you just killed, sometimes as quickly as you killed it IN THE SAME SPOT
the great teams have commanders that are CONSTANTLY building nodes.. with such an excess of nodes early on almost every weak alien team is bested, simply because the time it would take to destroy all of those nodes is almost impossible without some sort of sacrifice of defence elsewhere of extreme importance
<span style='color:red'>-----------</span>
this isn't just a problem of gameplay for that once skulk put on res duty, it's a gameplay problem for everyone.. no, not because that teamate's going to get **** off and leave eventually, because at the highest levels of competitive play this is the key to winning any game.
I look at this and see repetitiveness. identical strategies that all incorporate and stem from the spamming excess of res nodes everywhere and applying pressure elsewhere.. what's the point of a beautiful strategy when deep down a commander knows that you've won when the aliens don't have the time or ability to down any nodes because the game is unbalanced in this aspect
so what I was trying to say in this crappy post was:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>your idea of reducing the cost and durability of res nodes is very appealing and should come to the attention of whoever overlooks the future of ns</span>
this would be a very welcome babystep toward enjoyability and balance
I would clearly call them out over voice comm to my team, since a Fade has more important things to be doing than killing a res node. But I don't really blame my teammates for not munching those nodes... it's boring as **** and people pub to have fun. Munching nodes isn't fun.
So, I drop the hive instead and keep killin' and munchin'.
Grendel spells armor like a brit!
I don't think RFK adds anything to the individual gameplay for marines. All it does is help to break the game on large servers. It also encourages all kinds of tedious gameplay, like protracted endgames, Heavy Trains off one or two nodes, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely no question. Gorges have no need for it either. Actually I don't care if RFK is removed altogether and think that may be the easiest best solution in the long run. (certainly is from a coding standpoint)
But removing marine RFK in at least ns_ maps needs to be done <span style='color:red'>ASAP</span>. It's gone on long enough, marine turtles and rambos need to die. This is my #1 most important, need to change soon about NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Unchain Upgrade Chambers</span>
While this increases the tactical flexibility of kharaa and reduces the marines' ability to simply counter any chamber the kharaa have, it will actually serve to soak up more of the alien team's early resources.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's my #2.
AND IT ISN'T FUN
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>it's boring</span>
...
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>your idea of reducing the cost and durability of res nodes is very appealing and should come to the attention of whoever overlooks the future of ns</span>
this would be a very welcome babystep toward enjoyability and balance <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have been lobbying for Talesin's excellent idea to debuff things and especial structure HP.
Lower HP structures and weaker automated defenses means more powershifts and that's GOOD.
No.... marines need far less res to be effective. I've never seen aliens win a prolonged match with only 3 RTs.
marines don't need nearly as much res to prosper as the aliens do
Listen to these simple words of wisdom, and your life will be fulfilled. It's hard I tell you to ambush a base of turrets that have aimbot with skulks. Just some lightweight base breaker... Add that as a hive one creature and chained lifeforms will be fine again.
Asked that three pages ago.
...ago... ago... go... *Empty echo* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(It's summer vacation, you know, and the authors have a lot better things to do than fix their games. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all first you all need to take a look at this if you haven't, Talesin's I&S thread:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82361' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=82361</a>
~edit~
Removed because I don't want to create spam mail for developers especially when they are not paid. They don't need to be pushished for their love of the game.
WTH is he smoking? I hear you cry. Well, think about it. Marines have no difficulty in destroying them, so spamming them on nozzles near to marine spawn would make little difference to the kharaa. Besides which, Kharaa RTs have a hidden cost of 10rps that has to be paid for the gorge. This would encourage kharaa to be more adventurous in gaining resources, free up RPs for evolutions or additional chambers and make losing chambers early in the game less of a death knell to the team. It would also help bigger games by helping kharaa in their attempts to control resources and by delaying marines at the very least.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the first time you evolve gorge get your first structure FREE! (except <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> of course)
maybe more like 10 res free, you know. whatevah
you would have to make sure this idea cant be exploited though
-- sorry if this idea has been posed already
i vote Grendel for NS president
are you joking? spores are RIDONCULOUS <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
No.... marines need far less res to be effective. I've never seen aliens win a prolonged match with only 3 RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
uhm aliens can easily win a prolonged (10+ minutes) with 3 nodes and 2 hives... in fact I'd say the game is in their favor at that point, unless marines have all other 6-8 nodes and a proto lab up....
Pubbers just don't realize the power of some things <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and if aliens have 2 hives they dont necessarily need many nodes, they just need to keep marine nodes down. and fades alive.
No.... marines need far less res to be effective. I've never seen aliens win a prolonged match with only 3 RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
uhm aliens can easily win a prolonged (10+ minutes) with 3 nodes and 2 hives... in fact I'd say the game is in their favor at that point, unless marines have all other 6-8 nodes and a proto lab up....
Pubbers just don't realize the power of some things <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By 'prolonged' I mean 45-60 minute games or longer. 10 minutes is a combat match.
Longer games FTW!
So theres no really valid reason to say aliens can't last on fairly few nodes. They're actually several times better at it than marines.
If the aliens drop a hive then I'd say the chance is 70% that they win if the marines have an incompetent commander.
Commanders are the biggest reason why marines lose on pubs, pub commanders neer tend to push and take down the building hive = lose.
So theres no really valid reason to say aliens can't last on fairly few nodes. They're actually several times better at it than marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhh... no? I'm not talking about a 45 minute game where one team can't get off its collective a$$ & finish the game. A <b><u><i>GOOD</b></i></u> 45-60 minute game is highly dynamic and boatloads of fun. In one instance on ns_tanith aliens had taken two hives, the marines had double and the third hive was in contest for at least half an hour. During the entire match nobody had more than three or four RTs for more than a minute, as a couple of marines and two dedicated skulks literally spent most of the match RT hunting.
The third hive was first taken by the marines and locked down with a PG in the first 10 minutes. It was then cleared out by fades and the the hive was built. Before it was completed the marines sucessfully sieged it out and fortified it - only to be trampled by an onos and two lerks 15 minutes later. Once the hive was going up again (built by your favorite Fatty!) the marines pulled a heavy train out of nowhere and beat the game through concentrated firepower in short order.
Even though the marines never had more than 4 nodes for longer than a minute or two they still had the res to keep upgrading and to tech up to HA. I didn't see any oni in the last bit of the game despite roughly equal res flow.
Reduced cost rt/stronger/free? Hm I dont think so.
Persistant upgrades until changed otherwise, sure! (alien)
Gorge res boost!
A thoughtless res system tweak to compensate for the lack of gorge bling could be safely done by putting the gorges as a whole on a higher res plateau. Depending on how much extra gorge bling you have accumulated, you would have a +(res#) next to your res bar. This extra gorge bling amount would be subtracted from your bank upon lifeform gestation, and given back to the gorge population. Therefore this extra bling would only be usable in the league of the limp walks. The slight extra bling should be compensated by the iced out lifeforms that dont have a limp, sorta like the old bling distribution system, only that the swank threaded' gorge sugar daddies wouldn't be prime for hoes that didn't hand over the bread since that extra bling couldn't be used for lifeform gestation!
So theres no really valid reason to say aliens can't last on fairly few nodes. They're actually several times better at it than marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhh... no? I'm not talking about a 45 minute game where one team can't get off its collective a$$ & finish the game. A <b><u><i>GOOD</b></i></u> 45-60 minute game is highly dynamic and boatloads of fun. In one instance on ns_tanith aliens had taken two hives, the marines had double and the third hive was in contest for at least half an hour. During the entire match nobody had more than three or four RTs for more than a minute, as a couple of marines and two dedicated skulks literally spent most of the match RT hunting.
The third hive was first taken by the marines and locked down with a PG in the first 10 minutes. It was then cleared out by fades and the the hive was built. Before it was completed the marines sucessfully sieged it out and fortified it - only to be trampled by an onos and two lerks 15 minutes later. Once the hive was going up again (built by your favorite Fatty!) the marines pulled a heavy train out of nowhere and beat the game through concentrated firepower in short order.
Even though the marines never had more than 4 nodes for longer than a minute or two they still had the res to keep upgrading and to tech up to HA. I didn't see any oni in the last bit of the game despite roughly equal res flow. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sorry. But because your team didn't have the insight to have enough onos to counter the heavies. so maybe what. 9 heavies? take 3 onos. and you win. you should have had 3-5 onos by taht time. If most of your team was gorging, then you deserve to lose. a 10 vs 10 game should have 2 early lerk, 2 early fades, 2 rez hore onos. or my personal favorate. 5 gorges, 5 fades. ive seen it where there were 8 gorges, a fade and a lerk. then the alein team crys due to a loss. Dont get me wrong, I still implore you to gorge, but you gotta know when to build, when to save, and when to become a more advanced lifeform. Did you have anyone trying to take out their advnaced armory?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->?? AnyOne trying to take out thier arms lab? what about killing thier proto while its upgrade. or maybe even having 1 onos harass mstart, 1 onos harase an outpost. the other one defends, when the heavys leave thier base, have the onos hit thier advanced armory. they will prob becon. or those thier advanced. after you kill that armory, kill thier proto. or obs or what not.
I would really like to see a server where, in a 10 v 10 match, the aliens have 310 res just lying around to get two fades, two lerks and a couple of oni. Unless there was a res balancer plugin I've yet to see it happen.