<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Sep 30 2004, 01:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Sep 30 2004, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Only problem I have with building a lot of IPs early is the mentality that dying is okay in classic. In my opinion, dying a lot is the worst thing that can happen, even if you have 3 IPs churning out marines. With the RFK system, the more you 'feed' the aliens, the faster they get hives and fades. If their evolution rate is faster than our tech rate, chances are you will lose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True, so you make it accordingly.
<span style='color:orange'>It is a balance.</span>
affecting varibles include # of players in server, who's got the better players, who's go more contol over the map, etc etc....
I'm against building more than 1 ip until at least the 4th minute. If marines spend more time in the spawn queue they are less inclined to die. This change of mentality is probaby worth it. Besides, if they are dying cosntantly they are probably not that great an asset to the team anyway.
The obvious exception is an IP rush or if you are one of those people who think commanding on 12 vs 12 servers is challenging. --
Electrification is a dodgy issue. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> then if res, electrify <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If res, give out 3 shotguns <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ? Or wait a few cycles and get a2. (I still say a2>w3, but that's another story.)
Electrification provides minimal advantages. RTs with PGs and hive rts are probably the only rts you should electify. Examples that come to mind are ecl's southloop and veil's c12. (Choke points/key points)
Advantages of Elec: > Stops a lone skulk killing the rt > Early fades have to choose between attacking your players or your elec rts > A poor alien team may not have the teamwork to take down the rt, so you may reduce their res flow.
Disadvantges >If you let aliens get hive 2 (which is more than likely as the res you've spent on electify leaves you little for shotties and weapon upgrades,) gorges will bile your rts. > It takes 3 times longer to pay for the rt. > Your marines hate you for not giving them anything. --
Going back on topic, I favour 3 mine packs over elec any time. It's easy to dodge an elec tfac when fighting a spawning marine, but one slip with a mine and you're dead instantly. If a fade is attacking ms elec won't help anyway.
The most cheapest and efficient way of protecting rt`s are mines:
I tend to ask pack of mines from comm to rts. Just place mine to "leg" of the rt otherside where rines will come where skulks like to go---> if i get that pack of mines those 4 mined rt`s are kept well safe. This also makes skulks paranoid to rts if done enough many times <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Doesn't 4 ips work just as fast as 3? I might be mistaken, but I heard only a maximum of 3 ips work in a game. Any more ips are not used to spawn marines.
You can have 16 IPs working at once if you have that many players in the queue.
I'm a situational commander, if I notice a bunch of my marines dying (maybe some massive ambush), then I'm inclined to build the second IP. It reduces the time my marines are out of action by half, and I think marines being out of action is more dire than feeding RFK to skulks.
Shouldn't your ip's have line of sight to each other? That way a single skulk camping one can be killed by a marine that spawns on the other one, before they have a chance to hide.
There may have been an IP limit in the past, but there certainly isn't one now. However, any time you have more IPs than dead marines at one time, then it's very much wasted.
If you build more than about 1/3 of your team size, then this will happen fairly often. 2 is plenty for 6 players, 3 is plenty for up to about 10. I don't play on servers larger than 10v10 (preferably 8v8 or smaller), so I can't tell you much beyond that.
And all of your buildings should have LOS to each other, except for the electric circle defense. By putting everything but IPs, phase, and armory in the corners, that is easy to accomplish.
Some times i like to dilibratly move buildings just away from the wall just big enough for a skulk to evade turret fire, works best with Tfac, and put mines on the side. Uncountable skulks die to that. If the res allows, building dummy buildings in plain sight with the 1st hidden out of sight, works great for armorys when you have adv. they'll attack the fake and waste thier time.
As for Locks, if possible try to put your turret factory and turrets on boxes, or just up higher than the usual ground. Put you Phase-g NEAR NOT NEXT to your RT. Tricks people into attacking your PG and soon you wont even need to put them in elec range.
<!--QuoteBegin-miniman227+Oct 5 2004, 06:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (miniman227 @ Oct 5 2004, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some times i like to dilibratly move buildings just away from the wall just big enough for a skulk to evade turret fire, works best with Tfac, and put mines on the side. Uncountable skulks die to that. If the res allows, building dummy buildings in plain sight with the 1st hidden out of sight, works great for armorys when you have adv. they'll attack the fake and waste thier time.
As for Locks, if possible try to put your turret factory and turrets on boxes, or just up higher than the usual ground. Put you Phase-g NEAR NOT NEXT to your RT. Tricks people into attacking your PG and soon you wont even need to put them in elec range. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Those are gambles that I'd be unwilling to take. Mines, particularly well concealed ones, are very easy to forget about replacing later in the game. Plus, what happens if a fade gets back there? Your building is definately going down. A funny way to kill skulks, sure, but I'm not a gambling man.
And be <i>very</i> careful about defending things with electricity on boxes. If so much as a corner sticks off the box, then a skulk can kill the building without getting zapped at all! The box will protect them.
MarineAnimal's picture of how to place your base was sweet as. We need more posts like that. Tell me what server you play on so you can teach me to command <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I am not a very experienced comm (I believe in grabbing 2 hives always on pubs)
I think maybe to solve the elec rt vs turrets is to put it this way...
Your first hive you drop an rt, phase, tf, then elec the rt, this gets the marines moving towards the 2nd hive much quicker...
Generally the fight for 2nd hive is bigger, so I go with turrets..
The problem with turrets is not damage or anything, its that on pubs marines die building them, and if a lerk is nearby its much worse, but I feel that the first fade always hits 2nd hive so the turrets help the marines there (I think any good fade knows what damage they take with x number of marines, but they die at 2nd cos they dont figure the turret damage so well)
I always believe in speed, if I could get dumb pub marines to mine 1st hive setup I would but it never works, but as soon as I get 2nd hive, I totally slow down, welders, sgs, upgrades etc
I know this thread is about marine spawn layout but nyeh
I`m not voting for 2-hivelockdown cos those games are jsut boring. You end up harrassing your team 5-15minutes to get to that lone hive while aliens are building masses of sc in pipes.....
im the type of comm that likes to be maybe a little bit defencive for around 3-5 mins into the game. then go onto a full out attack untill eather the aliens die. or the mairnes just fall apart completely and you stuck in base with no rez going. welp. good try.
Comments
True, so you make it accordingly.
<span style='color:orange'>It is a balance.</span>
affecting varibles include # of players in server, who's got the better players, who's go more contol over the map, etc etc....
Besides, if they are dying cosntantly they are probably not that great an asset to the team anyway.
The obvious exception is an IP rush or if you are one of those people who think commanding on 12 vs 12 servers is challenging.
--
Electrification is a dodgy issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
then if res, electrify
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If res, give out 3 shotguns
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?
Or wait a few cycles and get a2. (I still say a2>w3, but that's another story.)
Electrification provides minimal advantages. RTs with PGs and hive rts are probably the only rts you should electify. Examples that come to mind are ecl's southloop and veil's c12. (Choke points/key points)
Advantages of Elec:
> Stops a lone skulk killing the rt
> Early fades have to choose between attacking your players or your elec rts
> A poor alien team may not have the teamwork to take down the rt, so you may reduce their res flow.
Disadvantges
>If you let aliens get hive 2 (which is more than likely as the res you've spent on electify leaves you little for shotties and weapon upgrades,) gorges will bile your rts.
> It takes 3 times longer to pay for the rt.
> Your marines hate you for not giving them anything.
--
Going back on topic,
I favour 3 mine packs over elec any time. It's easy to dodge an elec tfac when fighting a spawning marine, but one slip with a mine and you're dead instantly. If a fade is attacking ms elec won't help anyway.
I tend to ask pack of mines from comm to rts. Just place mine to "leg" of the rt otherside where rines will come where skulks like to go---> if i get that pack of mines those 4 mined rt`s are kept well safe. This also makes skulks paranoid to rts if done enough many times <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I wasnt sure if it was enver made clear. at least u see 4 reinf if u have 4 ips
I'm a situational commander, if I notice a bunch of my marines dying (maybe some massive ambush), then I'm inclined to build the second IP. It reduces the time my marines are out of action by half, and I think marines being out of action is more dire than feeding RFK to skulks.
If you build more than about 1/3 of your team size, then this will happen fairly often. 2 is plenty for 6 players, 3 is plenty for up to about 10. I don't play on servers larger than 10v10 (preferably 8v8 or smaller), so I can't tell you much beyond that.
And all of your buildings should have LOS to each other, except for the electric circle defense. By putting everything but IPs, phase, and armory in the corners, that is easy to accomplish.
As for Locks, if possible try to put your turret factory and turrets on boxes, or just up higher than the usual ground. Put you Phase-g NEAR NOT NEXT to your RT. Tricks people into attacking your PG and soon you wont even need to put them in elec range.
As for Locks, if possible try to put your turret factory and turrets on boxes, or just up higher than the usual ground. Put you Phase-g NEAR NOT NEXT to your RT. Tricks people into attacking your PG and soon you wont even need to put them in elec range. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are gambles that I'd be unwilling to take. Mines, particularly well concealed ones, are very easy to forget about replacing later in the game. Plus, what happens if a fade gets back there? Your building is definately going down. A funny way to kill skulks, sure, but I'm not a gambling man.
And be <i>very</i> careful about defending things with electricity on boxes. If so much as a corner sticks off the box, then a skulk can kill the building without getting zapped at all! The box will protect them.
One set of mines spread out intelligently is enough defense for you start out with a good majority of the times I com.
What i like to do when i com in ALWAYS put mines around your IP's and CC.
What i like to do when i com in ALWAYS put mines around your IP's and CC.
I think maybe to solve the elec rt vs turrets is to put it this way...
Your first hive you drop an rt, phase, tf, then elec the rt, this gets the marines moving towards the 2nd hive much quicker...
Generally the fight for 2nd hive is bigger, so I go with turrets..
The problem with turrets is not damage or anything, its that on pubs marines die building them, and if a lerk is nearby its much worse, but I feel that the first fade always hits 2nd hive so the turrets help the marines there (I think any good fade knows what damage they take with x number of marines, but they die at 2nd cos they dont figure the turret damage so well)
I always believe in speed, if I could get dumb pub marines to mine 1st hive setup I would but it never works, but as soon as I get 2nd hive, I totally slow down, welders, sgs, upgrades etc
I know this thread is about marine spawn layout but nyeh
Ill make new topic about hive defending.