Commanding Guide To Ns_veil
SpaceJesus
Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">siege locations, map strats, relocates..</div> NS_Veil
<b>Summary</b>
Veil is generally considered a marine biased map. Long straight corridors and easily defendable siege points combine to make it easy for marines to capture and hold positions. Also, due to the very spread out nature of the res nodes, it is fairly easy for marines to hold a number of res nodes easily.
<b><u>Key points on the map</u></b>
<img src='http://img31.exs.cx/img31/8623/overview2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<u><b>Red</u></b>
<i>Emergency C-12 Nozzle</i>
A popular relocate for marines, allows easy domination of the right-hand side of the map, and is within walking distance of 2 hive siege locations to boot.
<i>System Waypointing</i>
Seals off the most direct route to Sub hive, and allows fast access to both Double res, and Cargo hive.
<i>East Junction</i>
Seals off the most direct route from Pipe hive to Double res, and from Pipeline hive to Marine start.
Allows fast access to Double res, Pipeline hive and Cargo hive siege points.
<u><b>Green</u></b>
<i>Sub Hive</i>
This hive is fairly open, fairly easy to spawn camp, however it's extremely hard to siege, due to all siege points being so close to the hive. Your best bet to take this down would be a jetpack rush.
<i>Cargo Hive</i>
This hive is fairly easy to siege, it has 2 easily defendable siege points, although it isn't particularly easy to jetpack rush it due to the low and uneven ceiling.
<i>Pipeline Hive</i>
This hive is very easy to siege, it is very open and has a high, even roof - making it ideal for a jetpack rush or spawn camping.
However, the C12 siege point is ridiculously easy to defend.
<u><b>Yellow</u></b>
These are the parts of the map your marines should be defending in the early seconds of the game.
They should be holding these points until around 0:45, when most of your base should be up (IP, armory).
<b>Siege Points</b>
All siege positions below have been combat tested for accuracy and ease of defense. The sieges in the picture below are placed <i>as far away from the hive as possible</i> while still reaching.
<b><i>Pipeline Hive</i></b>
<img src='http://img16.exs.cx/img16/9084/overviewpipe.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/3016/veil_guide_pipesiege1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 1</b>
This is just around the corner from C12, and is fairly accessible. There are really only 2 entrances that will cause you hassle, the 2 large doorways. As long as your marines concentrate on covering the 2 doorways this is usually the easiest siege location to defend on the map. The sieges should be placed hugging the wall as close as possible to give the defending marines more room to move about. You can also (until b6 (probably)) CC block the hive-side doorway and/or vent, making it *that* much easier to defend.
<img src='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/8589/veil_guide_pipesiege2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 2</b>
This siege point can be very difficult to defend if there is mroe than one fade harassing your marines. A key point to defending this area is to have a fair amount of mines in the two corridors leading to the hive, as these will seriously hinder the progress of any skulks attempting to attack, and will deal severe damage to fades as there is little room to blink over them.
Keeping the sieges hugged up tight to the wall in the corner will give your marines more than adequate room to defend.
Note: A Grenade Launcher can be put to very good use due to the relatively enclosed space of the corridors leading to the hive.
<b><i>Cargo Hive</i></b>
<img src='http://img46.exs.cx/img46/6964/overviewcargo.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/9210/veil_guide_cargosiege1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 1</b>
This siege point is ridiculously easy to defend. One long corridor, the only easy access to the hive.
Placing the sieges like shown, is the furthest back that they will hti the hive, but you may want to move the TFac forward, and place the sieges along the side to give the defend marines a better LoF (Line of Fire) and more room to defend.
<img src='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/634/veil_guide_cargosiege2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 2</b>
This siege point can be very hard to defend due to the closeness to the hive itself, and the amount of large entry points where fades can harass your marines undeterred. Shotguns would be the best investment for defending this siege point.
Placing the sieges tight to the wall will give your marines more breathing room and less to get stuck on.
<b><i>Sub Hive</i></b>
<img src='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4979/overviewsub.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/340/veil_guide_subsiege.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 1</b>
This is a nightmare hive to siege, mainly due to the siege spots being so close to the actual hive.
Mines are a must for this area. Keep the turrets at the end of the corridor and your marines should be able to hold the location fairly easily.
<b><u>Common Map-Related Strats</u></b>
<i>C12 Relocate</i>
This is a very popular relocate, as it locks down one of the 2 main map control points (C12 and System Waypointing). It is within walking distance of 2 hive siege points (Cargo and Pipe) and has good access to nearby res nodes at double/topo/pipe.
With this relocate marines will dominate the pipeline/cargo side of the map.
<i>System Waypointing Relocate</i>
This is another popular relocate, as it locks down one of the main map control points (C12 and System Waypointing). It is within walking distance of 2 hive siege points (Sub and Cargo) and has good access to nearby res nodes at double/sub/overlook.
<i>Jetpack Rush</i>
This strat is particularly effective on ns_veil due to the large open hive rooms, which will give your jetpackers lots of room for manouvre, and unless the hive rooms are OC spammed, you will see those hives go down quickly.
<i>C12/System Waypointing Lockdown</i>
This is rarely used strat, and involves locking down the two major map control points (C12 and System Waypointing) with either a relocate and a PG at the other, or 2 PG's.
This can be difficult to set up due to your marines having to push for a PG near the aliens start hive, no matter which one they start at; however the rewards are more than worth the risk.
With PG's at both these locations your marines will effectively have map dominance by easy access to every early alien res node, and their start hive.
I would suggest placing a TFac at the PG nearest the alien start hive, but mines will also suffice if you have enough marines pouring out of it.
It also gives easy access to most siege points.
<u>Credits</u>
An "intrepid | " member (Can't remember which one) - For "constructive criticism" (ffs n00b com sieges won't reach from there) of my Cargo siege point.
[HD] Clan Members, for continued "constructive criticism" of my commanding.
The "Bry's NS Server" Community, for helpful hints and tips.
-=THV=- Clan Members, for not ejecting me when things go wrong.
keep it *G* angsta, for the tip on JP rushes
(If I've missed anyone please contact me and I'll add you to the list)
<u>Picture Links</u>
<a href='http://img31.exs.cx/img31/8623/overview2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img31.exs.cx/img31/8623/overview2.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img46.exs.cx/img46/6964/overviewcargo.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img46.exs.cx/img46/6964/overviewcargo.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img16.exs.cx/img16/9084/overviewpipe.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img16.exs.cx/img16/9084/overviewpipe.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4979/overviewsub.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4979/overviewsub.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/2774/veil_guide_c12base.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/2774/veil_guide_c12base.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/634/veil_guide_cargosiege2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/634/veil_guide_cargosiege2.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/9210/veil_guide_cargosiege1.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/9210/veil_guide_cargosiege1.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/2041/veil_guide_EJfarm.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/2041/veil_guide_EJfarm.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/3016/veil_guide_pipesiege1.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/3016/veil_guide_pipesiege1.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/8589/veil_guide_pipesiege2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/8589/veil_guide_pipesiege2.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/340/veil_guide_subsiege.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/340/veil_guide_subsiege.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6813/veil_guide_SWfarm.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6813/veil_guide_SWfarm.jpg</a>
<b>Summary</b>
Veil is generally considered a marine biased map. Long straight corridors and easily defendable siege points combine to make it easy for marines to capture and hold positions. Also, due to the very spread out nature of the res nodes, it is fairly easy for marines to hold a number of res nodes easily.
<b><u>Key points on the map</u></b>
<img src='http://img31.exs.cx/img31/8623/overview2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<u><b>Red</u></b>
<i>Emergency C-12 Nozzle</i>
A popular relocate for marines, allows easy domination of the right-hand side of the map, and is within walking distance of 2 hive siege locations to boot.
<i>System Waypointing</i>
Seals off the most direct route to Sub hive, and allows fast access to both Double res, and Cargo hive.
<i>East Junction</i>
Seals off the most direct route from Pipe hive to Double res, and from Pipeline hive to Marine start.
Allows fast access to Double res, Pipeline hive and Cargo hive siege points.
<u><b>Green</u></b>
<i>Sub Hive</i>
This hive is fairly open, fairly easy to spawn camp, however it's extremely hard to siege, due to all siege points being so close to the hive. Your best bet to take this down would be a jetpack rush.
<i>Cargo Hive</i>
This hive is fairly easy to siege, it has 2 easily defendable siege points, although it isn't particularly easy to jetpack rush it due to the low and uneven ceiling.
<i>Pipeline Hive</i>
This hive is very easy to siege, it is very open and has a high, even roof - making it ideal for a jetpack rush or spawn camping.
However, the C12 siege point is ridiculously easy to defend.
<u><b>Yellow</u></b>
These are the parts of the map your marines should be defending in the early seconds of the game.
They should be holding these points until around 0:45, when most of your base should be up (IP, armory).
<b>Siege Points</b>
All siege positions below have been combat tested for accuracy and ease of defense. The sieges in the picture below are placed <i>as far away from the hive as possible</i> while still reaching.
<b><i>Pipeline Hive</i></b>
<img src='http://img16.exs.cx/img16/9084/overviewpipe.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/3016/veil_guide_pipesiege1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 1</b>
This is just around the corner from C12, and is fairly accessible. There are really only 2 entrances that will cause you hassle, the 2 large doorways. As long as your marines concentrate on covering the 2 doorways this is usually the easiest siege location to defend on the map. The sieges should be placed hugging the wall as close as possible to give the defending marines more room to move about. You can also (until b6 (probably)) CC block the hive-side doorway and/or vent, making it *that* much easier to defend.
<img src='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/8589/veil_guide_pipesiege2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 2</b>
This siege point can be very difficult to defend if there is mroe than one fade harassing your marines. A key point to defending this area is to have a fair amount of mines in the two corridors leading to the hive, as these will seriously hinder the progress of any skulks attempting to attack, and will deal severe damage to fades as there is little room to blink over them.
Keeping the sieges hugged up tight to the wall in the corner will give your marines more than adequate room to defend.
Note: A Grenade Launcher can be put to very good use due to the relatively enclosed space of the corridors leading to the hive.
<b><i>Cargo Hive</i></b>
<img src='http://img46.exs.cx/img46/6964/overviewcargo.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/9210/veil_guide_cargosiege1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 1</b>
This siege point is ridiculously easy to defend. One long corridor, the only easy access to the hive.
Placing the sieges like shown, is the furthest back that they will hti the hive, but you may want to move the TFac forward, and place the sieges along the side to give the defend marines a better LoF (Line of Fire) and more room to defend.
<img src='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/634/veil_guide_cargosiege2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 2</b>
This siege point can be very hard to defend due to the closeness to the hive itself, and the amount of large entry points where fades can harass your marines undeterred. Shotguns would be the best investment for defending this siege point.
Placing the sieges tight to the wall will give your marines more breathing room and less to get stuck on.
<b><i>Sub Hive</i></b>
<img src='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4979/overviewsub.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/340/veil_guide_subsiege.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b>Siege Point 1</b>
This is a nightmare hive to siege, mainly due to the siege spots being so close to the actual hive.
Mines are a must for this area. Keep the turrets at the end of the corridor and your marines should be able to hold the location fairly easily.
<b><u>Common Map-Related Strats</u></b>
<i>C12 Relocate</i>
This is a very popular relocate, as it locks down one of the 2 main map control points (C12 and System Waypointing). It is within walking distance of 2 hive siege points (Cargo and Pipe) and has good access to nearby res nodes at double/topo/pipe.
With this relocate marines will dominate the pipeline/cargo side of the map.
<i>System Waypointing Relocate</i>
This is another popular relocate, as it locks down one of the main map control points (C12 and System Waypointing). It is within walking distance of 2 hive siege points (Sub and Cargo) and has good access to nearby res nodes at double/sub/overlook.
<i>Jetpack Rush</i>
This strat is particularly effective on ns_veil due to the large open hive rooms, which will give your jetpackers lots of room for manouvre, and unless the hive rooms are OC spammed, you will see those hives go down quickly.
<i>C12/System Waypointing Lockdown</i>
This is rarely used strat, and involves locking down the two major map control points (C12 and System Waypointing) with either a relocate and a PG at the other, or 2 PG's.
This can be difficult to set up due to your marines having to push for a PG near the aliens start hive, no matter which one they start at; however the rewards are more than worth the risk.
With PG's at both these locations your marines will effectively have map dominance by easy access to every early alien res node, and their start hive.
I would suggest placing a TFac at the PG nearest the alien start hive, but mines will also suffice if you have enough marines pouring out of it.
It also gives easy access to most siege points.
<u>Credits</u>
An "intrepid | " member (Can't remember which one) - For "constructive criticism" (ffs n00b com sieges won't reach from there) of my Cargo siege point.
[HD] Clan Members, for continued "constructive criticism" of my commanding.
The "Bry's NS Server" Community, for helpful hints and tips.
-=THV=- Clan Members, for not ejecting me when things go wrong.
keep it *G* angsta, for the tip on JP rushes
(If I've missed anyone please contact me and I'll add you to the list)
<u>Picture Links</u>
<a href='http://img31.exs.cx/img31/8623/overview2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img31.exs.cx/img31/8623/overview2.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img46.exs.cx/img46/6964/overviewcargo.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img46.exs.cx/img46/6964/overviewcargo.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img16.exs.cx/img16/9084/overviewpipe.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img16.exs.cx/img16/9084/overviewpipe.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4979/overviewsub.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4979/overviewsub.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/2774/veil_guide_c12base.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/2774/veil_guide_c12base.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/634/veil_guide_cargosiege2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/634/veil_guide_cargosiege2.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/9210/veil_guide_cargosiege1.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/9210/veil_guide_cargosiege1.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/2041/veil_guide_EJfarm.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/2041/veil_guide_EJfarm.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/3016/veil_guide_pipesiege1.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/3016/veil_guide_pipesiege1.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img86.exs.cx/img86/8589/veil_guide_pipesiege2.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img86.exs.cx/img86/8589/veil_guide_pipesiege2.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img44.exs.cx/img44/340/veil_guide_subsiege.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img44.exs.cx/img44/340/veil_guide_subsiege.jpg</a>
<a href='http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6813/veil_guide_SWfarm.jpg' target='_blank'>http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6813/veil_guide_SWfarm.jpg</a>
Comments
Great guide.
Like to add how double on this map, while central in its location, is highly overrated. Rather than head straight there at the start and meet high alien contention its best to swing around one of the wings, cap those and <i>then</i> cap or siege if necessary.
Relocating here is not a very sound strat, since it boxes you in, although can work if you capture cargo hive and effectively divide the map.
Other than that, great post, hope to see more like them.
seriously though this is a dam good guide. i had no idea that you ould place the sieges that far away and still reach
eh?
cant see the pictures?
nice to know my work is appreciated, and you'd be surprised how well those relocates work in pubs.
this guide is also up on <a href='http://www.ns-resources.co.uk' target='_blank'>http://www.ns-resources.co.uk</a> along with a bunch of other very informative guides which we hope to add to in the near future.
Fighting uphill is never a good idea, mines are very tricky to palce on stairs, plus it's hard to jump down the stairs whilst moving down them.
Also, placing structures on stairs is a bit of a pain.
So that's why I left it out, it is possible to siege from there, but it's just a very bad idea.
How often have you heard about sieges without pg? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I learned few tricks from this beauty(you can still siege pipe from that corner grrr <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) which is very helpful to everyone with developing their comming.
Otherwise Gj mate I think i might wright one map guide too!
What map would you like to be revised and sieged up?
EDIT: wasn`t there two other guides? one was ns_ayumi and other one i dont remember....
GoldenCrater wrote a nice guide to ns_origin not long ago, i might ask him if I can nab it for editing and post it.
Also, I'm working on a guide to ns_metal at the moment, expect it soonish, although not too soon if GC gives me permission to edit his origin guide.
EDIT : I'll add a PG section later, along with a couple more strats and general content if I can think anything up.
Ill snatched those few of tims back to live <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Looks sound otherwise, although I've never attempted to relocate to C12. Never knew you could siege from some of those spots either, thought it'd be too far, have to try it.
On another note, ns_caged is another marine-biased map with a similar layout to ns_veil. Capture the middle and the kharaa are screwed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, actually they aren't, go and bloody check before criticising, they are the furthest away that will still hit the hive, and so are by definition *not* incorrect.
Go check before making baseless assumptions.
@Volo
The Dome is really not that tactically important, C12 is about 5-10 seconds walk from the dome, and it has an RT, and is ontop of a hive siege spot.
What i regularly do when sieging cargo is have my marines phase to c12 and walk down to the siege spot.
@MistenTH
Yes, C12 relocates with the hive in pipe or cargo can be a total deathtrap, however relocating to system waypointing can also be a total deathtrap if the start hive isn't pipeline.
It's a guessing game, if they have sub or pipe to start with, relocate to the opposite side of the map (c12 for sub, sys waypointing for pipe). However relocating isn't always the best thing to do on this map, a PG and a pack of mines in sys waypointing or c12 will suffice if you keep pressure on their RT's and hive(s).
@SLizer
The point is that the guide shows you the optimum positions for sieging, it's not intended to tell you exactly where to put PG, because anyone with half a brain will realise that it goes in the most open area near to where you want it.