Reality Vs Ingame
DC_Darkling
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Ok.. Lets start by saying this is NOT a suggestion. I would not care that ppl ever suggest anything from this topic but I aint suggesting.
But lets see, Why does this not match:
We have 3 hives, we now get Xenoside. HOLD IT.. Wait a sec. We have total map control? Probably all RTs but one, we have our team crammed with advanced lifeforms, and we get a suicide move?
WHY would any skulk in reallife even bother to suicide and waste its only life whne it has TOTAL map control and can become anything it wants?
Now in reality it would be much more logical if it was ment as a despirate move. As in "EEK, we lost our 2nd hive.. XENO" Or something else critical (lack of rts, lack of mapcontrol, big spawnque or a combination of this all.)
Now I understand we can't do this in the game, xeno is strong. But doesn't it seem odd?
So whats your opinion about this? And how would you paste it in the game? (we aint suggesting ppl, just talking about it) Try to think of it as how would this be in reality, but lets keep us as the rules of the game. NS3B5 to be exact. So make this a discussion bout reality while we think how it is ingame at the moment.
Wonder how long this topic lasts.
But lets see, Why does this not match:
We have 3 hives, we now get Xenoside. HOLD IT.. Wait a sec. We have total map control? Probably all RTs but one, we have our team crammed with advanced lifeforms, and we get a suicide move?
WHY would any skulk in reallife even bother to suicide and waste its only life whne it has TOTAL map control and can become anything it wants?
Now in reality it would be much more logical if it was ment as a despirate move. As in "EEK, we lost our 2nd hive.. XENO" Or something else critical (lack of rts, lack of mapcontrol, big spawnque or a combination of this all.)
Now I understand we can't do this in the game, xeno is strong. But doesn't it seem odd?
So whats your opinion about this? And how would you paste it in the game? (we aint suggesting ppl, just talking about it) Try to think of it as how would this be in reality, but lets keep us as the rules of the game. NS3B5 to be exact. So make this a discussion bout reality while we think how it is ingame at the moment.
Wonder how long this topic lasts.
Comments
Im thinking about insect for example ants whould attack any intruder without thinking twice about if the intruder really means any harm.
the hive doesn't care about loosing 1,2,3,or 5 lifeforms with suicide if it's going to control the whole area!
Also the Kharaa reincarnate, they aren't brand new skulks. It's the same skulk that just died. So says fan fics anyway. Sort of like the Zerg from Starcraft.
I would take it further, I don't think the hivemind cares if it loses skulks at all.
A skulk needs adren upgrade to effectively xenocide and then leap at the enemy, helping ensure that he explodes before he is shot to death. This upgrade costs res. That upgrade also takes valuable time to gestate. A xenociding skulk is also helped by a cara upgrade, since if he is assaulting the marine base, there is a good chance that not even leap will prevent him from being killed. That upgrade costs res. That upgrade takes valuable time to gestate.
The res cost can be 'bought back' by successfully killing marines and obtaining RFK, but it also takes forever to get the appropriate upgrades. Combined with the +1 death on the scoreboard, and the not always insured success of a xenocide attack, xenocide is simply not really worth it in a ns_ game. It is much better to just wait around for res to collect and go Fade/Onos, or Gorge it up with a WoL around their base.
Suggestion? For the longest time to me, and I know for many other people, alien upgrades costing res has made absolutely no sense. The comm does NOT pay an upkeep cost of each respawning marine, to make sure that the marine gets Armor 1, MT, Weapon 1. The aliens essentially do have to pay an upkeep cost every time they wish to use their relatively limited spectrum of upgrades. Both races have to pay initial costs to research, but why do aliens pay upkeep?
<b>Remove alien upgrade cost, and for each hive the aliens have, make upgrade gestate times faster.</b>
As for xenociding needing upgrades, I find that it is unnecessary. The only upgrade I've really ever gotten with xenocide was scent of fear so I can tell where the marines are gathering, but I find that I can xeno and leap without using the adrenaline skill just fine.
Xeno is also a very good hive defense skill. Against good marine teams, by the time the third hive goes up, the marines should be attacking one of your hives with either JPs or Heavies. Constant movement chamber usage and xenoing will make their lives a living hell, most likely pushing them back or softening up for focus fades.
Im thinking about insect for example ants whould attack any intruder without thinking twice about if the intruder really means any harm. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think thats a good comparison.
...
Oh im thinking about bees....
skulks = bees
hive = queen
bees = do <b>ANYTHING POSSIBLE</b> to save queen.
Now if it was a fade with xenocide thats a different story <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> as fade human shape-ish, better attacking skills, bigger IQ!!!
By the same logic the Polar bear must be a serious competitor for University Challenge.
Or even some Pre-historic creautre. ;p
Anyway.
Gameplay > Realism.
Nanites.
Yes, xeno as kamikaze (hive independent) is a nice idea, but it completely changes the gameplay and ballancing.
Aliens are no individuals and xenocide is an important offensive ability at 3 hives.
Xenoicde is bound to 3 hives and NOT to having a lot of res, its made for the defensive "rush for hives (defend hive locations) and dont care for securing resnodes" strategy (wich is good against offensive marines).
Its also nice, when aliens controll the whole map, to kill 5 marines standing close to the armory inside a big turret farm.
For everything else unrealistic to explain theres still NANITES.
ive joined countless pubs with 3 hives and 1-2 rts.
edit: ... that wouldnt be an oxymoron anyway.
I have been in a game where it happened before. It was back in 2.0, but that doesn't make it less significant. Basically, neither team got more than 3 rt's at any one point until the game was in our hands (aliens). We got 3 hives up before we had any lerks, fades, or onos. We also struggled to get 3 of each upgrade chamber built. The only weapon we had for defending against siege bases was xeno, and it was quite effective.
Edit: machina XLII beat me to it.
The problem with kaharra is that the devs have not made allowances for the fact that unlike any other attack the player will die as a result of using it.
As it is I think its a little useless (lvl1 armour stops it) but if a system was in place that helped the player (faster respawn etc) then Xeno would be one of the best attacks.
I'm not saying the Kharaa want to die honourably, but they will certainly give their lives to protect Mom.
secondly, what if teams are too big? even if you have 9rts, resources are going to slowly crawl to you if there are 16 ailens, so, why not go kill yourself while your waiting?
and 3rd, XENOCIDE IS FUN!!!
lerk and skulks DO make a great team <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sort of like the T1000 eating bomb components, making a bomb in its stomach, blowing up in the middle of crowd, then its body reforms and goes back to work.
Nifty eh?
Remember the nano-gridlock: throughout the station, nanites and bacteria are interfering with each other and destroying each other. The only good footholds for the alien bacteria, where they would be able to spawn a lifeform without interference from nanites, would be around the hives.
Im sorry, I just spilled my drink. Xenocide is right now the BEST 3rd hive ability after webs maybe, which are quite useless in offense. Lets say its 6v6, 3 hives and marines are driven to one corner. They might even have HA, but think about it. HA (lv 0) = 400 armor + 100 hp. 2 Xeno skulks and its out of armor and others around him are really low, and then comes the focus fade... Bad day for the marines. It alone might not be so great skill but in teamwork its pure own.
And "scientific explanation" to Xenocide can be found <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80691' target='_blank'>here</a> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now this aint very true. The hive mind instructs, does not control us. I mean, we are PLAYING yes? We get messages yes? Or are we all watching bots play the game for us?
Reality should probably be the same. The skulks I think react on the hives orders, if noone exist they improvise.
The Bees is a good example though, they all are willing to kill themselves but are not controlled, but they do get orders. hmm..
Still.. think of it like this. Why would a skulk thin out kharaa ranks (spawnque) instead going onos?
Anything to add?
I think xeno is a very good strategy, if you can't get in the marine base, just get a xenoer or 2 and the rest can rush in...
They would give their lives for the hive any day anyway (is that right?)...
Regards
- Rover
OFF-TOPIC: Onos xeno with 1500 damage !!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lets quote my first post:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok.. Lets start by saying this is NOT a suggestion. I would not care that ppl ever suggest anything from this topic but I aint suggesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->