New Half-life Mod: Zombie Panic!

AutumnTwilightAutumnTwilight Join Date: 2002-08-27 Member: 1244Members, Constellation
in Off-Topic
I just wanted to announce a new mod for Half-Life called Zombie Panic that will be releasing in 4-6 weeks. Some of you may remember my thread several months back asking for Playtesters. We're getting pretty close, obviously, so I wanted to let people know about the mod, especially since PHL has ignored my submission of the ZP announcement for news for the past 5 days. Maybe the email got lost? Anyway, since NS is probably my all-time favorite mod, I wanted to let the NS community know about (That's why I also came here for PTs originally...).

Anyway, here it is:

Zombie Panic! is essentially a zombies vs. human survivors mod, with
the zombies trying to wipe out the humans, and vice versa. The catch
that makes it fun and interesting is that all players except one join
the human team at the start of the round, and only one person starts
off as a zombie. The zombies respawn when killed, but when a human is
killed he respawns as a zombie, and joins in hunting down his former
friends.

Ammo is a scarce resource, so you can't simply run around guns
blazing, or you'll run out of ammo in no time, and be easy prey. The
more weapons and ammo you carry, the slower you move, so sharing ammo after an ammo run is a good idea.

Anyway, it has a sort of survival horror feel to it, with plenty of
desperate moments with the zombies closing in on all sides, dark
corridors, and creepy ambience, but it doesn't take itself too
seriously, as it's more geared for fun with any number of people
playing, than hard core play. Our overall guiding design philosophy is gameplay first.

I designed it as something you could play
and have fun even with an odd number of people, or small groups,
although bigger games are even more fun.

We have had a playable Alpha since June, and have released a new
version to internal playtesters almost every week since then. We hope
to release a version to the public in the next 4-6 weeks.
Additionally, we plan on porting ZP over to HL2 once it is released.

The Webpage is at

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/</a>

and the Forums (Best information source) are at:

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/forums/index.php' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/forums/index.php</a>

We've got some video clips up showing a few quick scenes of Zombie
Panic in action. They're short, and they're using placeholder models,
so they don't capture the full feeling of desperation and terror, but
hopefully they'll give you an idea of what it's like.

The video clips are here:

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-final-2-die.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-final-2-die.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-freeman-tunnel-battle.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-f...nnel-battle.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-redeemer-3rd-person-overrun.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-r...son-overrun.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-redeemer-shotgun-dies.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-r...hotgun-dies.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-wilko-final-free-look.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-w...l-free-look.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-wilkos-last-stand.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-w...-last-stand.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-wilkos-last-stand-3rd-person.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-w...-3rd-person.avi</a>

Or you can download all of them together here:

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-videos-1.zip' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-videos-1.zip</a>

We also have a few videos of our HUD in progress here:

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemo1.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemo1.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemo2.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemo2.avi</a>

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemo3.avi' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemo3.avi</a>

Or you can download all of them together here:

<a href='http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemos.zip' target='_blank'>http://zpanic.marineeater.co.uk/media/ZP-huddemos.zip</a>

Thanks,

Twilight
Zombie Panic Mod Leader

PS Questions regarding the mod can be directed to zombiepanic@gmail.com
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Comments

  • R_A_CR_A_C Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16273Members
    Sweet, this mod sounds like it'll give some good variety to my gaming.
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  • GwahirGwahir Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Members, Constellation
    edited September 2004
    yes indeed, the mod is great fun. And sometimes you get these cinematic moments where the lone survivor tries to run one way, gets blocked, runs another, blocked, gets cornered, fights to the death with many zombies closing in on him, the result being unavoidable.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • JezpuhJezpuh Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15157Banned
    I once was trapped in a corner while the zombie's kept coming. Luckily I had a shotgun. But I didn't survive :'(
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  • VerthandiVerthandi Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10687Members, NS1 Playtester
    Does the gameplay become stale? I mean, in each round, there is only one outcome; once the round starts, either you start as an undead, or will inevitably become one.
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  • eedioteediot Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13903Members
    Each game/round feels like you're in a server mucking around with your best mates, even if you're in a server with complete strangers. Fun will be had. It doesn't become stale, a lot because of that.
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  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Verthandi+Sep 27 2004, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Verthandi @ Sep 27 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does the gameplay become stale? I mean, in each round, there is only one outcome; once the round starts, either you start as an undead, or will inevitably become one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It mostly depends on the map and the people you play with. "there is only one outcome" there are two:

    You either become a zombie.
    Or
    You survive, killing all the zombies off.

    However, how you get there is entirely up to you. You can go toe-to-toe with the zombies, and though you'll probably die more then you kill, that way is the funnest. Sitting back and picking zombies off with accurate weapons (ie: .357 Pistol) will keep you alive longer, but it's probably less fun then normal.

    Plans are that there'll <i>eventually</i> (i hate that word but it fits best) be:
    - 32 <b>unique</b> player skins, each with their 'zombified' doubles. No player will look the same.
    - 'Damage' overlays, showing -- VISIBLY -- the condition of the survivor
    - Unique armor system
    - Nasty zombie/survivor deaths (gibbing, blood spraying, decapitation, etc)
    - Multiple zombie types
    - Multiple <i>melee</i> weapons, each with a special job to do
    - Other stuff Twilight will have to talk about ... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • Vash_Fourty_Five_LcVash_Fourty_Five_Lc Join Date: 2003-06-01 Member: 16913Members
    sounds and LOOKS awesome. Fun will be had no doubt...im keeping an eye out
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  • Paranoia2MBParanoia2MB Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7832Members
    rofl

    Looks great, I wish I could help test. =X
    hehe
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  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Members
    gah... so this is what people mentioned when I was working on me mod. I knew I should've probably paid attention.

    Sounds like the thingy I'm doing is pretty similar... except the baddies aren't zombies. And the players win by surviving long enough to be rescued instead of killing their way to victory. And mine is sci-fi. And it's a bit more seriously orientated. And it's on UT2k4.
    Ok so they're not that similar then =3

    ~phew~
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  • VenmochVenmoch Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1093Members
    Damn university planning and stuff. I should be playtesting it dammit.....
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  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    I look forward to the next few weeks. I've been waiting for this for a loooong time.
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  • Ice-PhoenixIce-Phoenix Join Date: 2004-09-18 Member: 31775Members
    this game sounds awesome, wicked, excellent and well whatever "lingo" you prefer to use lol <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    and being a big fan of the survival horror type games (e.g: resident evil , silent hill etc) i'll be there to get the game when its available... but i never keep up with things well

    soooo if ya wanna give me a shout when its available for download <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> that would be much appreciated
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  • AnarkiThreeXSixAnarkiThreeXSix x_x Join Date: 2003-12-31 Member: 24894Members
    yeah, i reccomend checking it out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> i love the mod, really fun most of the time
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  • LikuLiku I, am the Somberlain. Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12128Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Verthandi+Sep 27 2004, 10:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Verthandi @ Sep 27 2004, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does the gameplay become stale? I mean, in each round, there is only one outcome; once the round starts, either you start as an undead, or will inevitably become one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    My dear friend, as testers we've already thought this through. Zombie have 30 units of reinforcement as a team. Once they run our of those, Survivors win. Though it's pretty hard for Survivor's to win, it's still hella fun. It's best with 15 people, that's when the real mayham starts.
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  • RenegadeRenegade Old school Join Date: 2002-03-29 Member: 361Members
    Looks like we've gone true public.

    For a while there we were only semi-public (the one thread requesting PT's).
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • ShzarShzar Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21098Members, Constellation
    Any chance of there being a single player game with this mod?

    ...yeah, didn't think so. I would love to play this game, but me being on 56k kinda deters me.
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  • WirheWirhe Join Date: 2003-06-22 Member: 17610Members
    Frag or get fragged -the regular set-up that gets boring very quick.

    Or is there some other purpose? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • OttoDestructOttoDestruct Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7790Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Wirhe+Sep 28 2004, 09:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wirhe @ Sep 28 2004, 09:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frag or get fragged -the regular set-up that gets boring very quick.

    Or is there some other purpose? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Its more like 'Frag or... OH MY GOD IM OUT OF BULLETS SAVE ME! AAAAH!!!'.... really, it's quite fun just trying to keep alive. And hunting for brains is fun too.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Paranoia-2MB+Sep 28 2004, 10:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paranoia-2MB @ Sep 28 2004, 10:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> rofl

    Looks great, I wish I could help test. =X
    hehe <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    To put it nicely, the modification looks complete and utter crap, and so unoriginally about Zombies.

    Want zombies? Go play the 'they hunger trilogy' , looks better aswell.
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  • JezpuhJezpuh Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15157Banned
    No more playtesters in my opinion! Seriously, we have way too much. Quite a few of them don't even show up at playtests..
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-JezPuh+Sep 28 2004, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JezPuh @ Sep 28 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No more playtesters in my opinion! Seriously, we have way too much. Quite a few of them don't even show up at playtests.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Then replace them?
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  • VenmochVenmoch Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1093Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-JezPuh+Sep 28 2004, 03:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JezPuh @ Sep 28 2004, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No more playtesters in my opinion! Seriously, we have way too much. Quite a few of them don't even show up at playtests.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I would show up.

    But getting ready to go to University can take a long time.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Thursday-+Sep 28 2004, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday- @ Sep 28 2004, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To put it nicely, the modification looks complete and utter crap, and so unoriginally about Zombies.

    Want zombies? Go play the 'they hunger trilogy' , looks better aswell. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Firstly, it's early days. CS looked like pants back in its first beta, but that didn't stop it becoming so popular.

    Secondly, there aren't actually that many zombie mods around. Most of them are single player based. It's about time someone made a good, multiplayer zombie mod. (:
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  • NEO_PhyteNEO_Phyte We need shirtgons&#33; Join Date: 2003-12-16 Member: 24453Members, Constellation
    edited September 2004
    i would show up, but my college internet sucks ****

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79936&hl=college' target='_blank'>details on my situation</a>

    note, the thread i linked to is OLD, so dont post unless you have something MAJOR to add
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  • JezpuhJezpuh Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15157Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Thursday-+Sep 28 2004, 05:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday- @ Sep 28 2004, 05:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Paranoia-2MB+Sep 28 2004, 10:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paranoia-2MB @ Sep 28 2004, 10:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> rofl

    Looks great, I wish I could help test. =X
    hehe <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    To put it nicely, the modification looks complete and utter crap, and so unoriginally about Zombies.

    Want zombies? Go play the 'they hunger trilogy' , looks better aswell. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks.

    How smart of you to say something like that. I guess you didn't read the "beta", "placeholder" and "development" parts. Ah well, I don't care. Please stay out.
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  • AbraAbra Would you kindly Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19870Members
    looks hella fun, but there are a few things


    I hope you get some really sweet models going
    Build some sort of not to half-life multiplayer way of moving. i mean i REALLY dont like the way you almost FLY around, think about how fast you move and such. More NS/CS something like way of moving. It gets to HLish looking quick.

    Zombies with crowbars... em... yeah...

    i got to see more of this before i judge it anymore <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Sep 28 2004, 05:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Sep 28 2004, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thursday-+Sep 28 2004, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday- @ Sep 28 2004, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To put it nicely, the modification looks complete and utter crap, and so unoriginally about Zombies.

    Want zombies? Go play the 'they hunger trilogy' , looks better aswell. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Firstly, it's early days. CS looked like pants back in its first beta, but that didn't stop it becoming so popular.

    Secondly, there aren't actually that many zombie mods around. Most of them are single player based. It's about time someone made a good, multiplayer zombie mod. (: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Citizen 132 will be coming out as a HL1 mod, SP and MP. Then will be put on HL2 (if it ever comes), and that is a nice looking zombie mod.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Thursday- @ Sep 28 2004, 05:25 PM)
    QUOTE (Paranoia-2MB @ Sep 28 2004, 10:03 AM)
    rofl

    Looks great, I wish I could help test. =X
    hehe

    To put it nicely, the modification looks complete and utter crap, and so unoriginally about Zombies.

    Want zombies? Go play the 'they hunger trilogy' , looks better aswell.

    Thanks.

    How smart of you to say something like that. I guess you didn't read the "beta", "placeholder" and "development" parts. Ah well, I don't care. Please stay out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I heard about this modification a long time ago, obviously you don't know what a beta and an alpha is, if this is a beta god knows what a final version looks like. Even CS B1 is 10x prettier than this!
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • NEO_PhyteNEO_Phyte We need shirtgons&#33; Join Date: 2003-12-16 Member: 24453Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Thursday-+Sep 28 2004, 10:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday- @ Sep 28 2004, 10:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Sep 28 2004, 05:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Sep 28 2004, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thursday-+Sep 28 2004, 10:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday- @ Sep 28 2004, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To put it nicely, the modification looks complete and utter crap, and so unoriginally about Zombies.

    Want zombies? Go play the 'they hunger trilogy' , looks better aswell. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Firstly, it's early days. CS looked like pants back in its first beta, but that didn't stop it becoming so popular.

    Secondly, there aren't actually that many zombie mods around. Most of them are single player based. It's about time someone made a good, multiplayer zombie mod. (: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Citizen 132 will be coming out as a HL1 mod, SP and MP. Then will be put on HL2 (if it ever comes), and that is a nice looking zombie mod.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Thursday- @ Sep 28 2004, 05:25 PM)
    QUOTE (Paranoia-2MB @ Sep 28 2004, 10:03 AM)
    rofl

    Looks great, I wish I could help test. =X
    hehe

    To put it nicely, the modification looks complete and utter crap, and so unoriginally about Zombies.

    Want zombies? Go play the 'they hunger trilogy' , looks better aswell.

    Thanks.

    How smart of you to say something like that. I guess you didn't read the "beta", "placeholder" and "development" parts. Ah well, I don't care. Please stay out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I heard about this modification a long time ago, obviously you don't know what a beta and an alpha is, if this is a beta god knows what a final version looks like. Even CS B1 is 10x prettier than this! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    than go play CS and leave us alone
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  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    This mod looks hella fun.

    Will you port it to the Doom III engine some time in the future - it would actually be scary then in addition to being great fun.
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  • SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation
    I've been playtesting it since near the beginning (well as much as you can when your PC breaks and melts your video card) and it is a very playable, and fun mod to play.

    What the mod could <b>really</b> do with however is some professional looking Maps and Models. The gameplay is there, but the graphical appeal isnt quite with us yet.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
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