Last Ditch Measures...
Litany
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8043Members
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8043Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How do you survive at the very end?</div> Gah. You know how most marine losses go. Fades suddenly pop up, acid rockets and bile bombs flying everywhere, people are running around the base shooting and screaming, and then suddenly someone screams on chat "OH GOD THEY HAVE ONOS!".
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roar, scream, crunch. Onos(es?) are inside base, running around, turret factory blows up, all the turrets die, nobody has any idea what to do, the commander is panicing, the spawns are gone, and all of a sudden it's just a matter of time until the CC gets destroyed.
Oddly enough, this seems to happen most of the time on Eclipse. But besides that, how would <b>you</b> stop this from happening? What strategies help you prevent this messing and embarrasing defeat?
[edit - damn typos]
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roar, scream, crunch. Onos(es?) are inside base, running around, turret factory blows up, all the turrets die, nobody has any idea what to do, the commander is panicing, the spawns are gone, and all of a sudden it's just a matter of time until the CC gets destroyed.
Oddly enough, this seems to happen most of the time on Eclipse. But besides that, how would <b>you</b> stop this from happening? What strategies help you prevent this messing and embarrasing defeat?
[edit - damn typos]
Comments
2 - Bend
3 - Kiss **obscenity** Goodbye
The sad part of this situation is that by the time they are rushing you with all this The commander is probobly doing a bad job OR the Marines are simply dying to often and/or not obeying commander. All in all The Best way to prevent such a humliating defeat is to not let the Alien **obscenity** have such power . Of course another way might be to mine the base like mad and hope that they fall for it..... But that would proboly be just as good as the strategy above <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> .... but enough humor.
The key is to always stay on the offensive... The worst thing a Commander can do is bide his time or "appreciate" a lull in the battle. If you can keep the Aliens reeling then they will never have a chance to recooperate and eventually <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> ---( <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> *splat*)
I was reading another thread as to why it's also fun to play as the marines, whether you're winning or losing. One post said that he just got a jetpack and saw how long he could outrun an Onos. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You can't say that that's not fun.
Part of not getting into the situation above is not losing your cool. Games are tense - after being alien for 2, then commanding for 2 (my team won in every game I played <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) I seriously needed a break. Games get tense, and scary.. but if you stick together, listen to your comm and work at it, marines have extreme rebound capabilities.
Since that is a very bad thing to see, someone from my little squad who had command experience detached and went to become commander. Except somehow a skulk managed to destroy the CC, and we had no auxililary. I was pretty **obscenity** off, but there was still an incredible chance of victory for us seeing as they only had one hive at the moment.
But instead, the rest of my team decided to panic. They stood around base yelling and screaming "Oh god, we have no chance now." And then they destroyed our infantry portals. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> It was so frustrating. Then screaming started, telling everybody to kill themselves, because the aliens took the hive we locked down. And then we lost.
It?s experiences like this which really make me annoyed, because I was having a great time and we were so close to winning, because all we had to do was take out their only hive. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Heavy sigh.
But has anyone actually come up with a strategy to help get out of the quicksand of what is usually the end for the marines?
Distress beacon does cost some resources. I don't know how many, but not more than 25 I don't think.
Theres a give and take to commanding.. listen to your guys, but if they dont listen to you you'll get nowhere. Its a good idea to show bad marines what they are missing by giving the first precious heavy weapns/armour to good marines that you can trust.
On that note, though, I think its really important to make sure every marine feel that he has a job to do. Even if it is just sitting with some turrets in an empty hive. Usually there'll be one player I'm commanding that really stands out.. and he becomes my special op. In one game on nancy (again) earlier today.. we entrenched heavily in the mess hall, which effectively means we'd cut the map in half, with the aliens' 2 hives squashed together with minimum resources. I had seige guns there which meant they couldnt build close to us. If we were going to stop them building up we had to do it fast.. but after all, we only had 6 guys in the field. So I took a risk, and sent three HA's moving together on the nearest hive, while 2 guys stayed back and defended the mess hall. The last guy, who'd really shown himself up as a great player, I gave a welder, a grenade launcher, and a jetpack, and I guided him through the vents until he was perched just above their other hive. The chaos that ensued was awesome, and every marine cooperated - chiefly because they all knew where to go and what to do. After taking one hive, my jetpack ninja was basically fighting a losing battle in the other.. he at one point killed 3 aliens in his vent with his welder (!) but he couldnt last forever. I moved my heavies down from the other hive, set up three siege guns, and boom, the cavalry had arrived.
And good times were had by all, even the lone skulk who ran for a defence tower, only to get killed by a siege cannon.
That was sooo much fun spydey <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
WELDER PWWNAAGEE, the skulks couldnt bite me because I was jetpacking on the vent roof, of course Im glad they didnt know they had to bite me in the groin to get a hit!
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + jetpack > <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its wierd.. I have much better games on the game2xs servers than anywhere else.. heh.
I was reading another thread as to why it's also fun to play as the marines, whether you're winning or losing. One post said that he just got a jetpack and saw how long he could outrun an Onos. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You can't say that that's not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My final evolution if we're losing as Alien is always Lerk, Regeneration, Cloak, and Celerity.
A quote from the NS manual comes to mind ... "A Lerk with Celerity is like trying to swat a hummingbird with a baseball bat."
My team vanished, having given up. I evaded six marines for ten minutes - they had HA/HMG and observatories all over - while merrily wreaking havoc on rogue Marines and buildings. A whole second base got left unattended, and was chewed up in short order. It finally ended when I flew up to the rafters, went Gorge, built the first Hive again - then the cavalry rolled in.
It was fun while it lasted. I can imagine Onos Jetpack Tag would be too.
- M4H
Basically its the anarchy. The damage of the onos isnt usually to bad if you work together to kill him fast. And those lerks and fades? Pretty easy to keep back if you work together- i mean your just bidding time, but you can easily survive another 30 min if you gotta good commander and work together. But the " OMFGONOS" syndrome is what kills ya. The anarchy, despair, wet and soiled pants - that gets you.
Marines:
--STFU and listen to your commander!! I've never commanded up to this point, but I've commanded at it, and it sucks. You've got 8 guys all yelling "Give me HMG" and you've got 3 RPs. Welcome to hell. LMGs will kill things if you group fire, and you need to get organized, so listen to the commander and give him a chance.
--Make a desperite run: Believe it or not, once aliens start to win, they often slack off on building. This has lost them many times when I play marine. Most marines have this fetish for killing alien stuff. I just ignore it. With fast running and a little jumping, you can dodge Offense Chamber shots and get right underneith a hive. After that, unload on it and pray to God your commander is smart enough to find you and drop health/ammo until you can't see past the pile of medkits. As for the aliens, they're off siegeing your base and those fresh made skulks are HMG fodder.
--Don't stand around: Related to my, STFU idea, this one is simple. Don't stand around waiting for the cmdr to drop you stuff. Get your rear to the choke points and start firing that LMG! It's downright sad how many marines just stand there waiting for something while Fades acid rocket them to death.
Commander:
--Don't let it get this bad! Quite honestly, if they got three hives, you probably didn't play it very well. The best defense against <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> is to never let them get them.
--Get the hive back! Like several above me have suggested, divide your forces into a strike team to get that hive. Most commanders will panic at this point and stop giving orders. If you do that, the soldiers lose focus and die.
--Don't build turrents. It seems like a good idea, and it may be in some cases, but I've never seen it work. It just delays the end. They get destroyed or worse, they never get built. You're better off supplying that strike force I mentioned above.
--Don't quite. That really angers me. The game goes to put and what happens every time, "Oh...I'm tired of this, somebody else take commander" Oh come on! At least take defeat like a man (or woman, as the case may be), and stick with it. No body wants to clean up the mess you made.
Finally, <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> = <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Distress beacon does cost some resources. I don't know how many, but not more than 25 I don't think.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. This is precisely the correct tactic. The playtesters once did this about five times in a row and defended against about 15 onos before getting massacred. That's enough time to pull off some fancy footwork.
I always try to see who is where because when a skulk is foolish to go...oh, an undefend node...hehe, I simply go...you 2, move two rooms over and kill. Saves me time and I get more resourcses...followed by...take a hive. Outright in the game get to at least one hive and control it. that is where you build turrents and mini bases...in thier base. I'd like to turrent up every single resource node but...it's expensive...the turrent factory alone is more expensive then the node in the first place. If all I need to do is just keep an eye on it, keep attacking the aliens whereever I see them and keep moving marines past most of them...it won't get attacked.
As a marine and commander I can usually tell when a game is over. This is not simply because I went...oh, they have onos...it's over. No, I had a really poor commander one game that I joined...we had a chance for a bit...but, god only knows what he was doing. a little into it I had HA and a HMG and I wandered over into a alien hive and destroyed it...they went from three to two. Now...with the damage I did before I went down we could have pulled something off. But our commander wasn't doing much so I jumped in...found the aliens controled almost the whole map and the team was still semi camped at the spawn. Just times when you know...it's over, the team won't listen or move...the commander isn't doing well at all, the aliens are working to well together at this point, etc etc.
Bingo. In a game last night, we were down 4 to 6 as aliens - but with a little stealth and camping we snagged the third hive behind their backs.
In public chat (by mistake) I typing "going Onos cloaked by their base"
The reaction was a treat to behold. It could be summed up in two words. "Oh" and "(Rhymes With It)".
Five minutes later, three Onoses and a Fade were tearing their base to ribbons. They probably could have held us off a lot longer, but they just gave up.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> = "OMFGONOS!!!11 WE LOSE!!!11"
- M4H
I love it when a team of marines actually works together. Last night I was playing a game with quite a few good marines, who actually followed orders. We secured the third and second hives, got bases set up, and began defending them. Then the commander had to leave, so some idiot got in and began spawning SG's everywhere around base -_-
One of the best tactics I have seen used is the setting up of an entire secondary base, complete with CC. Keep it quiet by not building sentries and ordering your marines to not use the armory and the aliens will most likely run right by it if you get it in a well hidden spot. It has worked wonders.
Another good overlooked tactic is the observatory's "Distress Call" ability. I think someone said it in this thread, but I don't have time to read it over again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> When the aliens begin storming your base with onoses, having all your dead marines spawn could be the one thing that you need to get the upper hand. If you do this, and a few of them are able to escape, you may be able to pull off my previous mentioned second base.
Hope this helps ^_^
-[Nombliz] SilverHorse
I was playing yesterday; and everyone kept screaming for a weapon! I IMMEDIATELY after spawn ran out after the fades and kicked their **obscenity**. I might of died alot; but they didn't have enough power to kill me nor the health.
We still lost.
Because everyone stayed in the base. Doing zip.
Stupid stupid marines....
Btw; referring to my 2 guys who listen comment...look at my sig and it pretty much tells ya what happened to the aliens. :>
I need to start doing this, just in case I really need it. I tend to build my observatory and arms lab in the middle of my main base, covered by turrets.
If I could give one peice of advice to every marine, I'd tell them, "The LMG is your best friend. Love it, use it. And give it a girly name, because it is the only ******* You are gonna get!" Hmm...movie lines, sorry. Anyway, the point is, like I said before, get out of the base and use that thing. One game, me and some other marines all opened up on the aliens with our poor LMGs. By odd luck, I ALWAYS seem to get the killing blow in those situations. It happened this time and I scored LMG kills on an Onos and 2 Fades within a minute of each other. That thing kills, especially in the hands of 7 angry leather necks. When the base is falling and the marines are cowering behind turrents, what do I do? I grab my "LMG of +2 Butt-Kicking" and run out of the base like a madman, screaming my battle cry loud and clear. I may die like a ninny, but I pumped about 60-70 rounds of LMG into that Fade and got him away from the base for a few seconds.
Damn, I was planning on watching Apocalypse Now: Redux this week - now I'll have to watch Full Metal Jacket too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Usually, we just say "remember the alamo..." and "WE DIE LIKE MEN"
and then we get surrounded, and we empty our mgs etc etc..
Its quite fun.
The thing that pisses my off the most is those games where the aliens have just taken the third hive and as you start to plan a counter attack POOF no team. The entire marine team either switches sides or leaves the game.
Now I don't mind getting out of the CC and helping the other players fight off the enemy, because there isn't much point in me sitting there and watching the money slowly go up, but I get really angry when my team decides to ditch me.
I hop into a game, marines are on the losing end. Pretty quickly, the aliens get three hives. With our commandering doing very little, I decide to take a crack at my own plan. Running like crazy and praying for luck, I make it past 3 chamber clusters and into the enemy base. With LMG in hand, I open up on the hive. Thankfully, the commander notices me (Ammo Sir) and drops some stuff for me. I eventually die, but after a few more tries I get back in there and kill the hive, by myself, with help from the commander. Now what should happen? A whole lot of marines should take advanage of this to push back and secure that hive. What really happened? They all sat around and died, then the aliens rebuilt and killed us. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> Oh well, it was a fun try.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> > <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oddly enough, this seems to happen most of the time on Eclipse. But besides that, how would <b>you</b> stop this from happening? What strategies help you prevent this messing and embarrasing defeat?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the 'strategy' consists of making sure you come out on top of the mid-game.
the main thing is to prevent the aliens from obtaining a 3rd hive.
if marines act quickly to try and take out the third hive as soon as it has been established, then they may have a chance in the end-game.
1. mines, mines, mines
2. no armor given - no one can pick it up from the dead. this also means you can recyle prototype lab for res.
3. welders - save on base rebuild costs, take out webs, rebuild armor.
4. duplicate spawn & fac - for redundency.
5. minimal shottys, HMG and naders - let them be picked up as much as possible.
6. recyle jumpgates - where you got to go?
7. distress beacon can stretch things out. maybe the aliens will get tired & quit. (seen it happen)
8. wall of turrets - can stop even onos.
9. make sure beforehand that vents into base are welded up, if you can.
10. a seige is still handy to stop you getting blocked in. or getting a wall of offensives & defensives elevated into your base.
11. try to aviod letting it get that far.