<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+Sep 22 2004, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian @ Sep 22 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Sep 22 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Sep 22 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So Cindarian, are you saying if the developers find a way to remove bunny hop and scripts totally, the players who are good now will be total crap players? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If not, then what's the big deal? What's everyone worried about?
Having every person who plays have the same level play field as someone who just started would be such an awful thing wouldn't it? It'd be horrible, people would actually be ranked as how well they play the game, as opposed to becoming skilled with the use of half-life engine flaws. Things would be TERRIBLE. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your whole theory is based on the fact that those who are good at NS become good purely by scripts and bunny hopping. That somehow bunny hopping by itself owns the entire marine team and somehow scripts gets you incredible amount of kills. I really like a script like that, it'd make me pretty much unstoppable. Hate to burst your anti-script/anti-bhop bubble but putting an experienced NS player against someone who just started NSing will NEVER be a level playing field.
I can guarantee to you that all the players who are good now will still out perform those who don't have the skill in NS. Blockscripts have already shown that, ask any veteran in a good NS Clan to play on a blockscript server and they will be the dominating factor on his team. That cancels out your 'Scripts gives you insane skills'. Next, I can guarantee you that a good player who goes aliens can easily dominate the marines without bunny hopping, he can still get kills and then go fade, ripping up the team.
Do you know why bunny hopping is kept in? It not only helps those who are really good at the game but also those who are average at the game. It gives them another ability to help counter against marines who have pretty good aim and the range advantage. An average player won't get destroyed every time by a marine in the early game because he has another tool to use to kill and ambush the marines. I'm sorry to tell you but bunny hopping is left in as a balance to the game by Flayra, yes a balance. It's jus a pity that some people choose to not learn it because the think it's some evil corrupted add-on to the game that Flayra chose to ignore.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because we ALL know that compedative gameplay would be better if everyone had the same skill levels <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I won't insult your intelligence by pointing out your poor spelling, but if your reading is any better than your spelling, you'd see I mentioned there's a difference on knowing how to play the actual game, you know, biting, leaping, shooting, killing, collecting resources. Then there's the skill of how well you know how to exploit the engine, which doesn't have a place in the way NS should be.
I'm not saying people should be as skilled as the next, but people don't seem to get the fact that playing the game, and exploiting the game are seperate things, people are legit would still be able to kill new people, but not in unfair ways.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+Sep 22 2004, 02:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian @ Sep 22 2004, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (alot of crap, mine and his) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Please refrain from personal insults.
You have in no way even tried to prove your point of view with any kind of logical reasoning, and untill you try to do that I simply can not accept your teories. What I did was point out the obvious flaws in your way of reasoning.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Really, of course I couldn't compare those, because bhopping is an exploit of the half life engine, and you really can't justify that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, it's in pm_shared.c which is the physics code for the MOD. It's entirely in the MOD .dll's.
In the transition between 1.04 and 2.0 they made bunnyhopping easier on purpose(no more slow down all the way to 1x when passing 1.7x and jumping).
They purposely left bunnyhopping in there with the intent on it being used. Even I can fix it properly without breaking anything else, it's in the MODs code and easily accessible remember?
You can justify whatever you like if it's your mod. Hell, you could even give everyone ESP if you like(*looks at motion tracking/SOF*). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not an exploit. Please read Cindarian.
i disagree on the grounds that UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+Sep 22 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian @ Sep 22 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because we ALL know that compedative gameplay would be better if everyone had the same skill levels <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I won't insult your intelligence by pointing out your poor spelling, but if your reading is any better than your spelling, you'd see I mentioned there's a difference on knowing how to play the actual game, you know, biting, leaping, shooting, killing, collecting resources. Then there's the skill of how well you know how to exploit the engine, which doesn't have a place in the way NS should be.
I'm not saying people should be as skilled as the next, but people don't seem to get the fact that playing the game, and exploiting the game are seperate things, people are legit would still be able to kill new people, but not in unfair ways.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Once again, as it was intentionally kept in the game, bunnyhopping is as much a part of the actual game as biting, leaping, shooting, killing, and collecting resources. It is no more unfair than possessing skill in any other ability. It is no more exploitive than firing your weapon.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+Sep 22 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian @ Sep 22 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because everyone can do something, doesnt make it not a cheat, anyone can use hacks, anyone can have exploitive scripts, and anyone can exploit the engine, ... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> 2 things:
<!--QuoteBegin-www.m-w.com+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (www.m-w.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One entry found for cheat.
Main Entry: 1. cheat Pronunciation: 'chEt Function: verb transitive senses 1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud 2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice 3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death> intransitive senses 1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination) 2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on - cheat?er noun synonyms CHEAT, COZEN, DEFRAUD, SWINDLE mean to get something by dishonesty or deception. CHEAT suggests using trickery that escapes observation <cheated me out of a dollar>. COZEN implies artful persuading or flattering to attain a thing or a purpose <always able to cozen her grandfather out of a few dollars>. DEFRAUD stresses depriving one of his or her rights and usually connotes deliberate perversion of the truth <defrauded of her inheritance by an unscrupulous lawyer>. SWINDLE implies large-scale cheating by misrepresentation or abuse of confidence <swindled of their savings by con artists>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
or if you prefer analogies:
game:using cheats::athlete:using steroids
So you sir are totally <span style='color:red'>incorrect</span> on this one. Sorry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->which many people do all of the above, that doesn't make it legit, <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><span style='color:red'>In your opinion.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I know it's "ALLOWED" but it shouldn't be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:red'>In your opinion.</span>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Second</span>, (and this is the part that really pisses me off)
<!--QuoteBegin-you+ me--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (you @ me)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How stupid can one person be? please, never post again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you are not going to tell me when I can or can't post. Who the f-ing hell are you? I believe in free speech and thus my reaction to that is the following: *me gives you the finger*
<!--QuoteBegin-again...+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (again...)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have more right to say than half the people who have posted here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ha! Well no wonder you make such comments as you do! You arrogant ****. lol!!! Now I just feel sorry for you. It must be a nice world to be in since it revolves around you. Wow, you have perfected one of the Nha Si'Marat virtues. Good job.
You would do better to actually back up your arguments with something. Repeatedly saying it does not belong in the game when it's obviously here intentionally (for whatever reasons) doesn't make all that much sense to me. For your arguments on having more rights than others to decide what belongs in the game, I honestly have no idea where you came up with that. I'm trying to look at your viewpoint here (though you in turn seem to view people who disagree as inferior to yourself), yet I can't really see much in it without anything backing it up. Arguments such as "I know this isn't meant to be in because I am right" don't really give me any insight into your reasoning beyond you thinking of yourself as right all the time. I'm not for bunnyhopping, personally, but in all honesty it looks like you are just grasping for arguments to make, with all of them assuming that you are right about everything. That's not how a debate works, iirc.
You know what, you guys were right, I give up, you were so right...If flayra wishes to incorperate half life engine flaws and stick them in as elements of gameplay, and people enjoy this then so be it. The game is much better with these artificial gameplay elements. I apologize.
This is why NS is dying and apparently nobody sees it. GG NS.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+Sep 22 2004, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian @ Sep 22 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know what, you guys were right, I give up, you were so right...If flayra wishes to incorperate half life engine flaws and stick them in as elements of gameplay, and people enjoy this then so be it. The game is much better with these artificial gameplay elements. I apologize.
This is why NS is dying and apparently nobody sees it. GG NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> To be honest, I didn't really see the purpose of your posts. Were you trying to singlehandedly convert everyone to stop scripting and bhopping? If so then posting like this was definately not the way to go. It's like trying to convince everyone to stop driving and use mass transportation to help save Earth's environment. It's just not gonna happen.
Only chance you have is to shoot up your well thought out ideas and put them in I&S, having clear and logical points to why scripts and bunny hopping is apparently 'killing' the game. Not try to rail all the people who bunny hop and script, saying they're total newbs, etc etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is why NS is dying and apparently nobody sees it. GG NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:red'>In your opinion</span>...again...jeeze. If that's what you believe, then good bye. Adios.
Self-righteousness, arrogant people always tick me off, but you told the wrong person to shut the hell up.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I apologize.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You damn right! lol. Beg for my forgiveness. Be glad I'm not a forum admin cause you'd be suspended.
I too am a pro bhopper, and I can make my fade model turn sideways and perform scissor kicks and I always make the headshots on skulks with my pistol (but they are ubar sekrats so I'm not posteing the demo)
And anyways, there's about 5 good pages worth of argument in this 8 page worthless thread, yet you sit there screaming "YoUR AL LWROGN CAUZE I HAEV TEH FAKTS" even though everything you've said has been sistimatically destroyed. If you ask me, "WEAR NGE U NUB??/" then all that means is you have failed to read (and reply to, I might add) all the convincing argument. But no, I'm not insinuating that you really don't read anything anyone says, and keep spitting out the same crap over and over with slight re-wordings. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Guys I'm half convinced this is some fake post made by someone in the community under a fake name, and in like 3 weeks you're gonna see at #nspug/#natural-selection/etc "LOL LOOK AT THE FUNNY RESPONCEZEZ I GOT POSTING WITH THIS NAME" type of crap.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Sep 22 2004, 04:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Sep 22 2004, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Guys I'm half convinced this is some fake post made by someone in the community under a fake name, and in like 3 weeks you're gonna see at #nspug/#natural-selection/etc "LOL LOOK AT THE FUNNY RESPONCEZEZ I GOT POSTING WITH THIS NAME" type of crap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LoL. I was thinking the same thing myself actually.
Anyone wanna take bets on who it really is? (super mods and admin can see IP's btw, I know this from my forum)
<!--QuoteBegin-agentx5+Sep 22 2004, 04:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (agentx5 @ Sep 22 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Sep 22 2004, 04:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Sep 22 2004, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Guys I'm half convinced this is some fake post made by someone in the community under a fake name, and in like 3 weeks you're gonna see at #nspug/#natural-selection/etc "LOL LOOK AT THE FUNNY RESPONCEZEZ I GOT POSTING WITH THIS NAME" type of crap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LoL. I was thinking the same thing myself actually.
Anyone wanna take bets on who it really is? (super mods and admin can see IP's btw, I know this from my forum) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes and that's what is sad about this community. Either a noob who is 12 years old and feels that he must change the views of others because nothing else makes sense to his new found logic of the game he cares so much for or a pro 14 year old who wants to tell his e-friends on ventrilo and irc how much fun he had creating a whole thread arguement based on his one and only opinion point..... Which therefore will make him the most popular person in ns social history.
a bunnyhopper does not go from 0 - 500 (bh speed) in one hop. most can't do it in under 3. which means bunnyhopping at full speed requires a lot of movement beforehand
movement makes sound
listen and anticipate where the bunnyhopper comes from and shoot accordingly
so no, bunnyhoppers don't kill marines instantly. and balls-out bunnyhoppers die very quickly to marines who listen.
If you want to talk about leveling the play field then capping FPS would be a good start. Or how about removing 5.1 speakers, it's so unfair that i can't hear a skulk on my crappy old speakers when someone else can hear him a mile away and can even tell the direction he's coming from. Dear god, call the police, i feel so violated that this guy has an advantage over me. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Wow, I didn't expect this much of a reaction when I posted. Strangely, with a few exceptions, most of the discussion has ignored my question which was not "is bhopping ethical," but "do you LIKE bhopping and other engine exploits (whether left intentionally or not)." The majority of people have said that they do for two reasons:
1) Because it's fun 2) Because it gives a buff to lerks
As others have pointed out, there are more efficient ways to give buffs to lerks that don't require scripting or training to use, so that argument holds no ground. However, the first point is very pertinent. Games are suppose to be about having fun, so anything that makes the game more fun is worth keeping, right?
For me, this debate boils down to the difference between Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. In Mortal Kombat (particularly the later iterations), it is necessary to learn long strings of combos in order to be successful. Street Fighter, on the other hand, has mostly short, easy to remember combos. Personally, I have always prefered the Street Fighter games. To me, spending time memorizing combos is just not fun; I would rather spend that time out thinking and out maneuvering my opponent. However, other people feel differently. The same is true with the idea of bhopping, etc. Learning how to use particular moves/strategies EFFECTIVELY is one thing. But I don't particularly want to have to spend time "training" myself to be able to use a move at all, and I certainly don't want to have to go jigger around with scripting. In my opinion, if you have to do the latter, then a video game has FAILED, because you basically have to patch the game in order to make it work. Instead, I would much rather get good, by you know, playing the game. And, to preempt those people who will say, "but you don't have to learn bhop to be good" -- maybe not, but it certainly gives you an edge over those who don't do it.
If the creator of this game truly believes that bhopping (among other things) adds an important element to this game, he should bind it to a key or change how it works so that anybody can easily use it. Because for me at least, running around in circles on empty maps trying to bhop is just not fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--Alpha-+Sep 22 2004, 04:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Alpha- @ Sep 22 2004, 04:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> noob who is 12 years old <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually I have nothing against n00bs. Just jerks. I always try to help n00bs out and be kind to them.
Again calling a new player a n00b or newbie is not an insult, merely a statement of fact.
~edit~
Off topic.
On topic:
<!--QuoteBegin-k33l3m+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (k33l3m)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Did anyone mention how badly aliens would get raped if skulks couldn't bhop? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. Way back at beginning somewhere.
I really wish people would stop assuming bhopping is the ultimate weapon of apocalyptic doom and all who are exposed to this feature shall melt away in magical misery by merely viewing this spectacle.
Please, it's hardly that big of a deal. If anything, most players use it for transport to get to a good ambush spot just in time for that marine to pass through.
Comments
If not, then what's the big deal? What's everyone worried about?
Having every person who plays have the same level play field as someone who just started would be such an awful thing wouldn't it? It'd be horrible, people would actually be ranked as how well they play the game, as opposed to becoming skilled with the use of half-life engine flaws. Things would be TERRIBLE. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your whole theory is based on the fact that those who are good at NS become good purely by scripts and bunny hopping. That somehow bunny hopping by itself owns the entire marine team and somehow scripts gets you incredible amount of kills. I really like a script like that, it'd make me pretty much unstoppable. Hate to burst your anti-script/anti-bhop bubble but putting an experienced NS player against someone who just started NSing will NEVER be a level playing field.
I can guarantee to you that all the players who are good now will still out perform those who don't have the skill in NS. Blockscripts have already shown that, ask any veteran in a good NS Clan to play on a blockscript server and they will be the dominating factor on his team. That cancels out your 'Scripts gives you insane skills'. Next, I can guarantee you that a good player who goes aliens can easily dominate the marines without bunny hopping, he can still get kills and then go fade, ripping up the team.
Do you know why bunny hopping is kept in? It not only helps those who are really good at the game but also those who are average at the game. It gives them another ability to help counter against marines who have pretty good aim and the range advantage. An average player won't get destroyed every time by a marine in the early game because he has another tool to use to kill and ambush the marines. I'm sorry to tell you but bunny hopping is left in as a balance to the game by Flayra, yes a balance. It's jus a pity that some people choose to not learn it because the think it's some evil corrupted add-on to the game that Flayra chose to ignore.
I won't insult your intelligence by pointing out your poor spelling, but if your reading is any better than your spelling, you'd see I mentioned there's a difference on knowing how to play the actual game, you know, biting, leaping, shooting, killing, collecting resources. Then there's the skill of how well you know how to exploit the engine, which doesn't have a place in the way NS should be.
I'm not saying people should be as skilled as the next, but people don't seem to get the fact that playing the game, and exploiting the game are seperate things, people are legit would still be able to kill new people, but not in unfair ways.
Please refrain from personal insults.
You have in no way even tried to prove your point of view with any kind of logical reasoning, and untill you try to do that I simply can not accept your teories. What I did was point out the obvious flaws in your way of reasoning.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Really, of course I couldn't compare those, because bhopping is an exploit of the half life engine, and you really can't justify that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, it's in pm_shared.c which is the physics code for the MOD. It's entirely in the MOD .dll's.
In the transition between 1.04 and 2.0 they made bunnyhopping easier on purpose(no more slow down all the way to 1x when passing 1.7x and jumping).
They purposely left bunnyhopping in there with the intent on it being used. Even I can fix it properly without breaking anything else, it's in the MODs code and easily accessible remember?
You can justify whatever you like if it's your mod. Hell, you could even give everyone ESP if you like(*looks at motion tracking/SOF*). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not an exploit. Please read Cindarian.
Undefeatable argument.
----- cut thread here -----
I won't insult your intelligence by pointing out your poor spelling, but if your reading is any better than your spelling, you'd see I mentioned there's a difference on knowing how to play the actual game, you know, biting, leaping, shooting, killing, collecting resources. Then there's the skill of how well you know how to exploit the engine, which doesn't have a place in the way NS should be.
I'm not saying people should be as skilled as the next, but people don't seem to get the fact that playing the game, and exploiting the game are seperate things, people are legit would still be able to kill new people, but not in unfair ways.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, as it was intentionally kept in the game, bunnyhopping is as much a part of the actual game as biting, leaping, shooting, killing, and collecting resources. It is no more unfair than possessing skill in any other ability. It is no more exploitive than firing your weapon.
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> 2 things:
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>First,</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-www.m-w.com+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (www.m-w.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One entry found for cheat.
Main Entry: 1. cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on
- cheat?er noun
synonyms CHEAT, COZEN, DEFRAUD, SWINDLE mean to get something by dishonesty or deception. CHEAT suggests using trickery that escapes observation <cheated me out of a dollar>. COZEN implies artful persuading or flattering to attain a thing or a purpose <always able to cozen her grandfather out of a few dollars>. DEFRAUD stresses depriving one of his or her rights and usually connotes deliberate perversion of the truth <defrauded of her inheritance by an unscrupulous lawyer>. SWINDLE implies large-scale cheating by misrepresentation or abuse of confidence <swindled of their savings by con artists>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
or if you prefer analogies:
game:using cheats::athlete:using steroids
So you sir are totally <span style='color:red'>incorrect</span> on this one. Sorry.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->which many people do all of the above, that doesn't make it legit, <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><span style='color:red'>In your opinion.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I know it's "ALLOWED" but it shouldn't be.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'>In your opinion.</span>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Second</span>, (and this is the part that really pisses me off)
<!--QuoteBegin-you+ me--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (you @ me)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How stupid can one person be? please, never post again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you are not going to tell me when I can or can't post. Who the f-ing hell are you? I believe in free speech and thus my reaction to that is the following:
*me gives you the finger*
<!--QuoteBegin-again...+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (again...)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have more right to say than half the people who have posted here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha! Well no wonder you make such comments as you do! You arrogant ****. lol!!! Now I just feel sorry for you. It must be a nice world to be in since it revolves around you. Wow, you have perfected one of the Nha Si'Marat virtues. Good job.
This is an entertaining thread!
Keep it up guys, but I'm afraid your talking to a brick wall.
This is why NS is dying and apparently nobody sees it.
GG NS.
This is why NS is dying and apparently nobody sees it.
GG NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, I didn't really see the purpose of your posts. Were you trying to singlehandedly convert everyone to stop scripting and bhopping? If so then posting like this was definately not the way to go. It's like trying to convince everyone to stop driving and use mass transportation to help save Earth's environment. It's just not gonna happen.
Only chance you have is to shoot up your well thought out ideas and put them in I&S, having clear and logical points to why scripts and bunny hopping is apparently 'killing' the game. Not try to rail all the people who bunny hop and script, saying they're total newbs, etc etc.
Use it to your advantage before all the retarded liberals want to do away with it for no reason other than that they can not achieve it.
GG NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'>In your opinion</span>...again...jeeze. If that's what you believe, then good bye. Adios.
Self-righteousness, arrogant people always tick me off, but you told the wrong person to shut the hell up.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cindarian+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cindarian)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I apologize.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You damn right! lol. Beg for my forgiveness. Be glad I'm not a forum admin cause you'd be suspended.
My opinion?
This thread deleted = ftw
And anyways, there's about 5 good pages worth of argument in this 8 page worthless thread, yet you sit there screaming "YoUR AL LWROGN CAUZE I HAEV TEH FAKTS"
even though everything you've said has been sistimatically destroyed. If you ask me, "WEAR NGE U NUB??/" then all that means is you have failed to read (and reply to, I might add) all the convincing argument. But no, I'm not insinuating that you really don't read anything anyone says, and keep spitting out the same crap over and over with slight re-wordings. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Guys I'm half convinced this is some fake post made by someone in the community under a fake name, and in like 3 weeks you're gonna see at #nspug/#natural-selection/etc "LOL LOOK AT THE FUNNY RESPONCEZEZ I GOT POSTING WITH THIS NAME" type of crap.
LoL. I was thinking the same thing myself actually.
Anyone wanna take bets on who it really is? (super mods and admin can see IP's btw, I know this from my forum)
LoL. I was thinking the same thing myself actually.
Anyone wanna take bets on who it really is? (super mods and admin can see IP's btw, I know this from my forum) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes and that's what is sad about this community. Either a noob who is 12 years old and feels that he must change the views of others because nothing else makes sense to his new found logic of the game he cares so much for or a pro 14 year old who wants to tell his e-friends on ventrilo and irc how much fun he had creating a whole thread arguement based on his one and only opinion point..... Which therefore will make him the most popular person in ns social history.
a bunnyhopper does not go from 0 - 500 (bh speed) in one hop. most can't do it in under 3. which means bunnyhopping at full speed requires a lot of movement beforehand
movement makes sound
listen and anticipate where the bunnyhopper comes from and shoot accordingly
so no, bunnyhoppers don't kill marines instantly. and balls-out bunnyhoppers die very quickly to marines who listen.
edit: this is for cindarin
1) Because it's fun
2) Because it gives a buff to lerks
As others have pointed out, there are more efficient ways to give buffs to lerks that don't require scripting or training to use, so that argument holds no ground. However, the first point is very pertinent. Games are suppose to be about having fun, so anything that makes the game more fun is worth keeping, right?
For me, this debate boils down to the difference between Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. In Mortal Kombat (particularly the later iterations), it is necessary to learn long strings of combos in order to be successful. Street Fighter, on the other hand, has mostly short, easy to remember combos. Personally, I have always prefered the Street Fighter games. To me, spending time memorizing combos is just not fun; I would rather spend that time out thinking and out maneuvering my opponent. However, other people feel differently. The same is true with the idea of bhopping, etc. Learning how to use particular moves/strategies EFFECTIVELY is one thing. But I don't particularly want to have to spend time "training" myself to be able to use a move at all, and I certainly don't want to have to go jigger around with scripting. In my opinion, if you have to do the latter, then a video game has FAILED, because you basically have to patch the game in order to make it work. Instead, I would much rather get good, by you know, playing the game. And, to preempt those people who will say, "but you don't have to learn bhop to be good" -- maybe not, but it certainly gives you an edge over those who don't do it.
If the creator of this game truly believes that bhopping (among other things) adds an important element to this game, he should bind it to a key or change how it works so that anybody can easily use it. Because for me at least, running around in circles on empty maps trying to bhop is just not fun.
Actually I have nothing against n00bs. Just jerks. I always try to help n00bs out and be kind to them.
Again calling a new player a n00b or newbie is not an insult, merely a statement of fact.
~edit~
Off topic.
On topic:
<!--QuoteBegin-k33l3m+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (k33l3m)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Did anyone mention how badly aliens would get raped if skulks couldn't bhop? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Way back at beginning somewhere.
newbie = player who doesn't know but wants to learn
go a head help all the noobs you want. Ill just teach the newbies.
Please, it's hardly that big of a deal. If anything, most players use it for transport to get to a good ambush spot just in time for that marine to pass through.