Ns_bast
OttoDestruct
Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7790Members
Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7790Members
I was playing on Kharaa, in a (for the most part) 8v8 battle on ns_bast. So anyways we get going, get our defenses up and whatnot. To make it short, we had all three hives, and had the marines pushed all the way back into the base on bast. But we couldn't win. We sieged their base for two, maybe three hours, and made zero progress, even though they were supporting their whole effort with ONE NOZZLE. How did they do it? They had three or four turret factories in the main base, craploads of turrets in every square inch of the place, and pretty much every marine had a grenade launcher which never stopped spamming the turnstyle or the elevator and ladders leading into their base. Even with 4 Onos, several Gorge, and I think probably a Fade, we could barely get two inches inside their base before dying. One time there were so many people firing HMG's at me, and turrets, as an Onos (And L3 Carapac) I died in less than a second in a charge. Personally I think this is a load of crap. A team should not be able to survive for three hours on a single nozzle, nor should they be able to build, rebuild, and weld turrets, at the meanwhile handing out grenade launchers. Turrets seriously need a lower limit to how many may be put in an area, and it should almost be considered to make armories not hand out ammo for free (or at least not hand out HMG or Grenade ammo for free). And welders need to either heal buildings slower, or be more expensive. I was attacking a factory they were trying to expand out, but didnt do any damage to it because of two marines crouched behind it in the corner welding, whom I could not touch either.
Signed a Disgruntled Kharaa who will probably never play ns_bast again.
Signed a Disgruntled Kharaa who will probably never play ns_bast again.
Comments
But i can agree that ns_bast is a verry hard map for the aliens to attack on. One way is a elevator with two ladders wich is easely spammed by HMG and grenade fire.
The other way in is the airlock, wich can quickly become a deathtrap if spammed by grenades (splashdamage through the wall) and after the airlock a narrow ramp leading to the base room.
And the final way into the base is the vent, but nor the fade or the onos can get through that vent I think. And the vent is pretty easely spammed by grenades.
It is possible for the aliens to be victorious on that map but that final room is just a pain in the **obscenity** to destroy if defended properly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To make it short, we had all three hives, and had the marines pushed all the way back into the base on bast.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok so your aliens....
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We sieged their base for two, maybe three hours, and made zero progress, even though they were supporting their whole effort with ONE NOZZLE<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and now your marine?
Coming back to the subject of your "siege", what was said before is true. Your team did not work together at all. Nade spam is a pain true, welding can be broken tho and fades can go into that vent. Probably the best thing you could have done is sit an onos outside their base cloaked in case them may try to go through there towards atmospheric pressuring.
Sit an onos / fade outside the airlock, cloaked ready to pwn anything that tries to come out...
Use skulks to bite the hell outta that welded vent, once thats done send in a lerk or 2 and a fade and acid /umbra/spore the hell outta that base...once u get enough marines dead you could have sent in the onos to destory the turret factories.
Remember turrets cannot operate without that turret factory anymore, so destorying that would render them asunder!
2-3 hours...i think you may be exaggerating alot :o
-TAU|TheOMeGa <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> > <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sorta reminds me of a game I just got out of. I was playing marine (sigh, had to keep teams balanced), and a few skulks burst towards the cmdr and took out the post (this was also on ns_bast).
For the next half hour, we held off siege after siege of onos', fades, lerks, and skulks using only LMG's and the few remaining turrets we had left. It was a 5v5 for most of the game, and we were able to let the kharaa gain very little ground.
Eventually, we admitted defeat (it was inevitable), and most of the marines dropped/ready-room'ed. I was the last lone moron holding a peashooter, trying to kill a p*ssed-off Onos with a weapon as effective as silly putty.
Despite the fact that we were utterly crushed, I still had a blast! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sit an onos / fade outside the airlock, cloaked ready to pwn anything that tries to come out...
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<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2-3 hours...i think you may be exaggerating alot :o
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We did the onos thing. And we had offense / defense towers outside airlock to take care of people. Like I said our problem was the constant grenades, and no I'm not exaggerating it was 2 or 3 hours.
Once 2-3 die run in with onos...
2-3hours? wow....rofl damn!
need more <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
which brings me to another idea...skulk rush it...take 3-4 skulks and run past turrets to the cc and keep going after it. if the nade dudes decide ot take a break run in with onos
the amazing things that these pictures that can do!
-TAU|TheOMeGa
We only won because the marine commander recycled all their buildings after an hour.
If the kharaa start with the engine room or feedwater hives, it's 1 min skulk rush gg. Starting in the refinery is incredibly inconvenient however.
Most of the stuff you said he had already talked about <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<3
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> = omg!
-TAU|TheOMeGa
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We killed three CC's.... one at an expansion (?), one in their main base, that was before the grenade spam, and unfortunately they had a smart commander who plopped down another one.
Oh, and once again, we tried the lerks and got raped in a few seconds from all the grenades.
-TAU|TheOMeGa
Make sure you have carapace because you will take a lot of bullets. Run out before your armor drops to 50 or even 100, and heal at your defense chambers, gorges or hives then loop.
I have played both sides and can testify that this method is nearly unstoppable agaist sieged marines.
Make sure you have carapace because you will take a lot of bullets. Run out before your armor drops to 50 or even 100, and heal at your defense chambers, gorges or hives then loop.
I have played both sides and can testify that this method is nearly unstoppable agaist sieged marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't work on Bast. Only way an Ono can get in there is by ladder/elevator or the rotating chamber. So there is no dashing back and forth.
Basically it's a balance issue. The game should never get a point where one side can turtle up with one resource and hold off an attack indefinitely, but it does happen. Hopefully they will fix this soon.
And I love all these "all you have to is x" posts. No, I'm sorry, try again. Sometimes there is no "all you have to do", you simply cannot get in. I saw a base so fortified with turrets that the marines literally had to <b>walk over them</b> to get to the doors. They literally had over 40 turrets, even herds of 5 ohnos were slaughtered in seconds, and the marines just kept welding them back up. No headway was possible, and after 2 hours, most of the aliens had left out of sheer boredom.
The point I think was that the marines had ONE resource node! ONE!
I've seen the same thing happen in games before. The initial skulk rush owns the marines, but not totally, and provides ample time for Gorges to build up some O/D chambers at choke points in the map, (I'm thinking of Eclipse now), and cap all of the closest nozzles to the marines base. But because of that building the 2nd hive takes a bit longer to get up. The marines manage to battle back the skulks with thier LMGs and mabey get 4 turrets or so up in their base, (because of the lack of early Fades). The skulks continue the rush not letting a single marine out, so how do they all of a sudden start coming out with bigger and better equipment all the time? They have ONE resource nozzle, they have built and rebuilt parts of their base because of the initial rush, and had to re-supply marines over and over. How do they continue to have a steady steam of resources to build their way up to seige cannoning there way out later?
Focus on factories. Not only do they have to build them back, they also have to upgrade them to get their siege turrets to work again.
The Onos' scream will help the Xenociders considerably.
Make sure you have carapace because you will take a lot of bullets. Run out before your armor drops to 50 or even 100, and heal at your defense chambers, gorges or hives then loop.
I have played both sides and can testify that this method is nearly unstoppable agaist sieged marines<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tried it, got slaughtered in seconds from the grenade spam then running into the turrets. Not to mention any turret destroyed was simply rebuilt.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The point I think was that the marines had ONE resource node! ONE!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats exactly what I'm trying to say. A base should NOT be able to be held with a single resource tower.
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LEARN TO FLY!! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't help either when theres a pile of grenades waiting for you.
Yes I admit we should have gone for the vent, but with all honesty that would have just been turret camped / grenade spammed as well. Only way I could think of getting in there is running skulks through the vents, xenociding taking marines out, then take the portals out (since they had multiple factories).
Tomorrow I'll post a diagram (to my recollection) of where the grenade spam zones were, were turrets were, etc, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tried it, got slaughtered in seconds from the grenade spam then running into the turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just looked at ns_blast and those marines sure do have a nice base, but I could have still wreaked some havok by my lonesome.
However, it sounds to me that the marines were really on the ball and cooperating while you guys were not. Set up a large base down below then run about four Onos up the ladder at the same time. Much fun to be had.
Taking the vents would still be the best idea. The moment a factory is toasted, tromp up the ladder.
Also, killing any marine in a base doesn't get rid of the weapon he just had. In fact, it merely drops to the floor, where another player can pick it up. Imagine that! :-O And with the vent sealed, lerks dont' have a decent position to Spore from. Still, maybe 3 lerks could have saturated the entire base with Spores... making GL users drop dead over n over. Long enough to allow Onos to deal with the turrets anyway.
also remember welds can be killed.
The ONLY difficulty is if they have seige turrets in their main base... and then it only requires patience.
Fades, you see, CAN get inside that vent easily. And the weld can be destroyed as well, so it's always an option. Once a fade is up there, preferably with a gorge to heal, but at least with a defense chamber just outside the seige range, he can throw rockets and bombs into the enemy base without fear of real retribution. If they start throwing grenades at you, then they clearly aren't spamming the turrets, and the onos strategy given above will work. If they're spamming the turrets to protect against onos, then you can spam with rockets. If they spam both, get a skulk in there to Xenocide... it isn't hard.
Patience is all it takes. Yes, the turtling is annoying, but the shell can be cracked.
There is a turret limit and it seems reasonable. Concentrate on destroying the expensive stuff if the factories are too well guarded. Arms labs, Protoype labs and Observatories all have 2/3 the health of a factory and costs twice as much.
Oh, yes. Don't forget every heavy takes 39% the damage as a turret, deal about 200% damage and cost 125% as much.
I love statistics.
As for Bast, that's my favorite map for aliens. So much fun. As for assaults, I completely agree. Onos's get stuck in the map on the elevator and ladders. And marine resources are still crazy high.
My advice? join another server. No one likes stalemate.
We started in Engine Room. I went gorge, and setup a meatwall in front of the airlock coming out of the marine base. No big deal, standard procedure. Here's the fun part. I built a line of defensive towers up the vent leading to their base, and actually got 3 offensive towers built in the vent overlooking the marine base! They were able to take out the furthest one, but the other 2 were constantly firing on their base for about 10 minutes, before they were finally able to get GLs. They had 3 guys firing on my towers at once, and they were still unable to overcome the healing power of the Defensive Towers. And of course, while they were busy worrying about my 3 towers ahd welding their structures, we were steadily taking over the map. Once they got GLs the offensive towers went down quickly, but even then, the hidden defensive towers remained in the vent, actively healing my fellow aliens through the wall during the final base invasion.
I don't beleive I've ever laughed so hard as when those marines started cussing me out about those turrets!
"WTF?"
"Dude that is so f*cking cheesy!"