Built In Hive Abilities
VaCCiNe
Join Date: 2004-08-29 Member: 31020Members
Join Date: 2004-08-29 Member: 31020Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A topic on non-static hives</div> I've heard and extrodanary amount of complaining recently about two topics.
1)Hive camping
2)Sneaky PG's
The solution? Non-static Hives!
Been thinking about this for a long time now, after downloading an Alien Queen skin for my hive in 1.04, and watching her do nothing as JPers crawled all over her and slaughtered her babies <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That got me thinking about it and i came up with LOTS of possibilities for it.
I'm just gonna reel them off in no particular order, and you can let me know what you think.
-Chamber Hives:
That is to say, the hive gains abilities from the chambers you have built at the moment. There are several ways this could be done. You could have it so when a chamber is built, the hive automatically takes on traits of that chamber. So, if i built SC first, the hive would cloak, and any marines within a SoF radius would be picked up by all aliens as SoF blips. MC would silence things within the radius and add adren to nearby aliens. DC would increase the healing rate /range of the hive, and maybe a tiny increase in hive armour.
Another option would be to allow the hive certain upgrade slots, with the option of adding on to it with a certain upgrade chamber. So the hive model changes to reflect the new trait slightly, and it increases its abilities. This would cost maybe 20 or 30 res, and give the hive traits as above, or whatever people thought.
-Defensive hives:
This change would see the hive have built in, automatic responses to neraby hostiles. The obvious one would be to give it some kind of attack. OC ability springs to mind but it is easy to counter this with a CC drop. Spores could also work, but rather than directing at rines, which i think would be overpowered, id prefer it to emit them rather than shoot them. This would prevent JP'ers camping on top of it, and with a range increase over normal spore AoE, would cut down on hive camping as they would have to be further away. In some hives this wouldnt mattter as they are so open (waste for example), but others would be helped a lot.
Also a lot of talk about giving hives umbra. I don't like this idea, it extends the end game far too much, when the rines have it won, and encourages siege even more than current (which is bad <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
-Hive Types
This idea would probably never work, but would involve the option, when creating a hive, of building it with a built in defensive feature. Such as Umbra or spores or extra armour etc..., the actual details would need to be looked at hard, but the increased res cost of building one of these hives over a vanilla one probably wouldnt be worth it, and would see zero clan play. Plus all the extra work of new models would make it hard too.
-Chained Hives
The hive that you have would take on traits of its chained chamber.
So the first hive (DC hive in most cases) would heal more over a greater range maybe, and the second hive (MC in most cases) would speed up aliens or increase adren or something. You get the picture. I really like this idea. The model would require no physical changes, and would aid against the PG sneak and spawn campers, by offering no bonus outside the hive.
-Other ideas
In the way of non radical tiny balance changes, my faveourite is this. If a marine comes within siege distance of the hive, designated by placing the siege template on the hive and using the circle out from it, then a warning sound is played. Warning, Intruder near the hive! or something like that would have all aliens running to their hives and checking. This is good though as it doesnt cut out a sneaky PG, it just ensure taht the rines dont build 10 siege without anyone realising, and then killing hive in 10 seconds. They could build a pg at top of ramp outside Computer Core (Eclipse) for example, without being detected, get their marines through, and then proceed into siege range to build. They would then be detected and a frantic battle for territory would ensue, just like Flaystar said he wanted a while back.
Alien version of beacon has been suggested but i dont like this at all so no further comment on it.
Spawning umbra again i feel is not the answer here, and after playing on servers with this plugin i dont really like it.
Similar to above 3 seconds of invinicibility was suggested but this is even worse, as battles take place in hives/MS and you dont want invincible players running about, even just for 3 seconds.
Fingers hurting now.
Think thats about it, maybe a few points ill remember later.
VaCC
1)Hive camping
2)Sneaky PG's
The solution? Non-static Hives!
Been thinking about this for a long time now, after downloading an Alien Queen skin for my hive in 1.04, and watching her do nothing as JPers crawled all over her and slaughtered her babies <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That got me thinking about it and i came up with LOTS of possibilities for it.
I'm just gonna reel them off in no particular order, and you can let me know what you think.
-Chamber Hives:
That is to say, the hive gains abilities from the chambers you have built at the moment. There are several ways this could be done. You could have it so when a chamber is built, the hive automatically takes on traits of that chamber. So, if i built SC first, the hive would cloak, and any marines within a SoF radius would be picked up by all aliens as SoF blips. MC would silence things within the radius and add adren to nearby aliens. DC would increase the healing rate /range of the hive, and maybe a tiny increase in hive armour.
Another option would be to allow the hive certain upgrade slots, with the option of adding on to it with a certain upgrade chamber. So the hive model changes to reflect the new trait slightly, and it increases its abilities. This would cost maybe 20 or 30 res, and give the hive traits as above, or whatever people thought.
-Defensive hives:
This change would see the hive have built in, automatic responses to neraby hostiles. The obvious one would be to give it some kind of attack. OC ability springs to mind but it is easy to counter this with a CC drop. Spores could also work, but rather than directing at rines, which i think would be overpowered, id prefer it to emit them rather than shoot them. This would prevent JP'ers camping on top of it, and with a range increase over normal spore AoE, would cut down on hive camping as they would have to be further away. In some hives this wouldnt mattter as they are so open (waste for example), but others would be helped a lot.
Also a lot of talk about giving hives umbra. I don't like this idea, it extends the end game far too much, when the rines have it won, and encourages siege even more than current (which is bad <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
-Hive Types
This idea would probably never work, but would involve the option, when creating a hive, of building it with a built in defensive feature. Such as Umbra or spores or extra armour etc..., the actual details would need to be looked at hard, but the increased res cost of building one of these hives over a vanilla one probably wouldnt be worth it, and would see zero clan play. Plus all the extra work of new models would make it hard too.
-Chained Hives
The hive that you have would take on traits of its chained chamber.
So the first hive (DC hive in most cases) would heal more over a greater range maybe, and the second hive (MC in most cases) would speed up aliens or increase adren or something. You get the picture. I really like this idea. The model would require no physical changes, and would aid against the PG sneak and spawn campers, by offering no bonus outside the hive.
-Other ideas
In the way of non radical tiny balance changes, my faveourite is this. If a marine comes within siege distance of the hive, designated by placing the siege template on the hive and using the circle out from it, then a warning sound is played. Warning, Intruder near the hive! or something like that would have all aliens running to their hives and checking. This is good though as it doesnt cut out a sneaky PG, it just ensure taht the rines dont build 10 siege without anyone realising, and then killing hive in 10 seconds. They could build a pg at top of ramp outside Computer Core (Eclipse) for example, without being detected, get their marines through, and then proceed into siege range to build. They would then be detected and a frantic battle for territory would ensue, just like Flaystar said he wanted a while back.
Alien version of beacon has been suggested but i dont like this at all so no further comment on it.
Spawning umbra again i feel is not the answer here, and after playing on servers with this plugin i dont really like it.
Similar to above 3 seconds of invinicibility was suggested but this is even worse, as battles take place in hives/MS and you dont want invincible players running about, even just for 3 seconds.
Fingers hurting now.
Think thats about it, maybe a few points ill remember later.
VaCC
Comments
Non-static hives would be kinda tricky to program, and even if it was, it would be almost worthless. The hives wouldn't be able to move very fast, and almost no hive room in the game has enough room to get out of seige range.
About the hive "emitting" spores when it's under attack, this would be almost worthless against people on the ground and heavies. Or does this spore cloud extend farther than I'm thinking (like cover the entire hive room)? Maybe instead of spores, the hive could shoot *slightly* improved Gorge spit, or something like an acid rocket out that huge hole in the bottom, maybe an increase of 15 damage (given the size of that hole). And as for JPers camping on the top, maybe it could also deploy big impaling spikes on the top to prevent people from landing and camping <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Along with your idea of the hive announcing intruders or whatever, the hive sprite in the top right corner of the screen could flash green or orange or something, sorta like when its under attack, but a different color. That way people would get an audible warning, and a visual warning (for those who don't play with speakers (me)).
Just a few more ideas piled into the mix...
Also some one actually made the models for the hives with the traits i.e. a DC looking Hive
Keep your posts on topic dammit. We come here to discuss beta issues, not to discuss radical new ideas, there's a place for everything, and in this case it's not always this forum.
I thought the idea of this forum was to discuss changes for the next Beta. If it isn't then ill post it in that other forum you mentioned.
VaCC
PS: Chill!
I'm not against your idea, I'm against you posting it in a place where the people who would consider the idea do not look.
I'm not against your idea, I'm against you posting it in a place where the people who would consider the idea do not look. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a forum mod deems this thread not in its proper place, he/she will phase it to the appropriate board.
You're not a moderator, so the most you can do is click that little button known as "Report" and notify a forum mod with it, and wait for him/her to take the necessary action.
Acting all hostile and 'righteous' is not going to get you anywhere.
[/OT]
VaCC: Gotta love those radical ideas, perhaps allow the builder gorge to invest 20~30 res anytime to upgrade the hive (built / building).
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except possibly suspended, as I've seen happen before.
Most of those ideas are infact not new, and there was a meta-mod to incorporate the Hive emiting either spores or umbra when attack. I think both were fun, but never really contributed to the game.
I like the idea of the hive picture flashing green.
It would also help new players, who might not know all the ropes yet, telling them to get back to the hive before its actually under attack and the marines are entrenched .
I have posted a copy of this in the I&S forum but not much interest <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only problem with this was that you wouldn't know where the HECK those marines are 'approaching' if you have sensories everywhere on the map. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Perhaps the devs could recycle that .wav to add to "Hive-mind Awareness" ? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yer, something like that would be great.
There's some really nifty ideas here, and I hope at least some of them get implemented in the next beta (if not permanantly, then just to try out).
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo-->
a SC hive give cloack, SoF (maybe focus) in range, MC hive gives silence, celerity and adren in range, DC hive gives extra Regen, Redemp and (cara?) in range
seems nice to me
I'm not against your idea, I'm against you posting it in a place where the people who would consider the idea do not look. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a forum mod deems this thread not in its proper place, he/she will phase it to the appropriate board.
You're not a moderator, so the most you can do is click that little button known as "Report" and notify a forum mod with it, and wait for him/her to take the necessary action.
Acting all hostile and 'righteous' is not going to get you anywhere.
[/OT]
VaCC: Gotta love those radical ideas, perhaps allow the builder gorge to invest 20~30 res anytime to upgrade the hive (built / building). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya'know I think I noticed I'm not a mod, but I also noticed that there's not exactly an obvious showing of mod's around here.
Waiting for moderators to come around and stop the creation of I&S topics could take months based on past experience, so I don't see the harm in asking people to take their newfangled ideas to the correct place.
Believe it or not, people actually come here for the public beta discussion, not the I&S one, however close they may be, they aren't the same. Many people(on NS irc) (after the I&S revamp) now consider this to be the forum that is most dangerous to the adverage person's IQ - So unless people start voicing their opinions the mods probably aren't going to take notice.
It's not intended to be hostile, it's rather annoyance. Seeing all the newly replied to topics all being I&S topics while the legit ones fall to the bottom of the list where no one touches them is annoying, and I'd rather see it end :|