Bug Report: Siege Cannon Damage

Tactician · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Major inconsistency</div> Due to claims of excessive siege cannon nerfing, I decided to test them for myself. For the first test, I created an unpatched (1.0) server, and for the second test I patched my NS to 1.01. These screenshots show conclusive evidence that the amount of damage done by a siege cannon is not what it is said to be in the version changelog.

Version 1.0 test: Siege cannons do 350 points damage per shot
<img src='http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/tactician/siege10.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Version 1.01 test: Siege cannons do 35 points damage per shot
<img src='http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/tactician/siege101.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

For each test I used:
- sv_cheats 1
- mp_drawdamage 1
- map: ns_hera
- unmodified skills.cfg

I joined as aliens, built 1 resource tower, then built two defense chambers in the marine base. Then I switched to the marine team and built one siege cannon a short distance away. In the 1.0 test, three shots destroyed both defense chambers and half destroyed the siege cannon itself (it was in range of the blast). In the 1.01 test, the defense chambers were able to sustain each other indefinitely, and the siege cannon itself took half the damage that the defense chambers did per shot.

This proves that the damage of a siege cannon is a fraction of what the changelog claims:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>- Lessened siege damage from 350 to 330</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

If you dispute my findings, please run your own tests and see for yourself. Is the uselessness of siege cannons a bug or a feature? Save our <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> !!

Typhon · November 2002

wow. guess those reports of seiges being unable to kill any buildings is true. with the rate of fire of seige, and only doing 35 damage, i think one defense tower is all you need to negate the damage.

Moleculor · November 2002

LOL! Well that explains a lot of the problems we've been having. Flay misplaced a decimal point somewhere. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Tactician · November 2002

The event that prompted this test was a game I played earlier today where it took about twelve siege cannons to even scratch an alien outpost full of OC's and DC's. Maybe it's an intentional balance thing to make the damage so low, I don't know. What I'm looking for is clarification from a team member. Why is this variable not what it's supposed to be?

There are some lurking variables in this test, however. I still see skulks being gibbed by nearby siege blasts. How is this possible with such a low amount of damage?

Hayduke · November 2002

hahaha...

I have noticed this as well. It does seem like the seige cannons will just keep on firing forever sometimes.

Turtle · November 2002

I've noticed that too, but the strangest thing is, the siege cannons still kill any aliens in the vicinity, it hits them hard enough to vaporize them (gib), of course the building is hardly hurt. Also, if an alien (such as the gorge that just built the structure) is really close, perhaps touching the structure, it takes no damage at all.

I suppose this puts a damper on the whole "siege cannon is too powerful" argument. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Limited80 · November 2002

well looking at all these threads...bile bomb..xeno..siege turret. There's something wrong with the equation of dmg vs structures where it is actually decreasing rather than increasing...

NCGKagekaze · November 2002

I'm glad someone brought this up. I thought it was a bug with the defensive chambers that allowed the alien buildings to be repaired too fast. I put a post up here..

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=10112' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=10112</a>

I think your experiment explains the whole thing and I can see why our six seige turrets coudln't kill one wall of aliend offensive and defensive structures. Perhaps this could be looking into for a 1.02 patch?

EDIT: I also noticed the problem with Bile Bomb. I didn't want to bring it up figuring I just wasn't hitting the structure right, but it's happened too many times. Maybe the damage vs. buildings is indeed wrong somehow.

Stormeh · November 2002

I have experienced this too, but most often they do normal damage to alien structures. So therefore there has to be a bug of somre kind.

Khaos · November 2002

I was beginning to wonder why siege cannons seemed to take forever to destroy some thing in 1.01, I knew with only a damage decrease of 20 it still shouldn't take as long as it was...from now on I'm just gonna laugh at any commander that places a <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'>

Gnacox · November 2002

Which might explain why it takes a full clip of grenades to take down one offensive tower.

I think you guys are right, there is something wrong with the blast damage (stupid name, call it crush dammage or something as suggested before).

WhiteMagic · November 2002

As I was curios I tried out the Siege Turret test.

I took the same settings as stated above and I got the following result:

ns_hera: Damage to Defence Chambers 17
ns_bast: Damage to Defence Chambers 330
ns_caged: Damage to Defenc Chambers 330

So it really seems to be a problem which is related to ns_hera no clue why perhaps if it the test wasn't made inside the marine base?
Will have to try that out later on.

ONE-ARM · November 2002

On the AKB server [65.26.24.207:27015] we have it patched to 1.01 and have mp_drawdamage on, and the seige cannon does the full 350 damage. Join and find out.

It may be a LAN setting or something, but it clearly doesn't affect all patched servers

Gibby · November 2002

Yeah I've noticed this as well. Seige turrets keep units away from the buildings (splash damage) but the buildings don't die. Also, bile bomb and Xenocide really don't even scratch buildings. I tested it on a server the other day, I shot 4 acid rockets at a full health Turret factory, direct hits each time. Went over, it had lost one of its health bars. Then bile bombed 5 times (i had direct hits) and the structure didn't take any damage.

Bile bombs still work on humans, though. As does Xenocide.

Beetlejuice · November 2002

Just tested the siege cannon on several maps and it allways did 330 dmg. Only on last map after killing the hive with 330 dmg shots it killed the resource chamber with 165 dmg shots. So there seems to be some kind of bug but it does not seem to be reproducable easily.

The Bilebomb bug on the other hand just seems to be resulting on mixing up multiplication and division when applying the "dmg against structures" bonus. Against structures bile bomb does half its normal damage instead of twice of it.

Larofeticus · November 2002

the suggestion that it's a map difference sounds eerily similar to my own experiences, i commanded a game on nothing a few nights ago, and siege turrents worked fine, but last night i was in a game on a different map (don't know name, the one with the mess hall) and they just kept firing and firing and didn't accomplish anything

i've noticed other map problems too, i've played some maps where there were no problems with the commander perspective, such as one last night (don't know name once again, the one with eclipse hive), but i've played others where the commander could not see aliens, but could see alien projectiles and marines getting eaten, (this happened on nothing), and even worse, i commanded a game (on the mess hall map) where i upgraded motion tracking, and it had no effect

oh and while on the subject of bugs, i've noticed that when alien structures/their destruction are involved, on the commander's minimap, destroyed alien buildings remain as red dots, which is quite annoying

Khaim · November 2002

yeah, the commander minimap places dots and moves them, but it NEVER removes dots.

Unit · November 2002

Hm...this seems very interesting, this explains why sometimes it's actually faster to kill a turret with acid rockets than bile bombs LOL...it's ok I'm sure Flayra's noticed this and is on it.

SLip1 · November 2002

Yeah, I remember being an alien, and constantly hearing.

Structure under attack! Structure under attack!
Structure under attack! Structure under attack!

Gnu · November 2002

It's not just Hera, I've seen the 'indestructable' DC bug on almost all the maps. It's random and not always reproducable, but sometimes seige cannons simply dont hurt some DCs. I've seen instances where they took out all the OCs near a DC, but kept firing on the DC forever.

Evintos · November 2002

IMO, I'm glad you ran those tests and glad that you came up with those results. If the siege turrets were made any stronger, there'd be alot of problems. All you need is one siege turret surrounded by regular turrets and you can take out an enemy hive. Why should the damage be raised any higher? I see no point. It already shoots through walls. And its even worse when the aliens have only one hive. They wont be able to do much.

Siege turrets s*cks especially when you're an alien. All your stuff gets destroyed (if you havent figured it out, I play as alien alot) before you can stop it. I say remove the siege turret or make the aliens have a weapon that can combat the siege turret without using players.

Tactician · November 2002

From the replies here, a more likely conclusion is that my original test was a fluke <b>because</b> the siege cannon damage is random and unpredictable. There is definitely a problem, we just can't pinpoint it without more extensive knowledge of how the game works. So we leave it to the people that know how the game works inside and out <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Save our <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> !!

Zed · November 2002

sure siege turrets dont work sometimes, but imo thats a good thing, they are way too powerful, there needs to be an alternative to them implemented or an ammo cap set on the sonic attack, in which commanders have to buy sonic rounds if they want to use them. oh and the bug should be fixed if other changes are done.

Moleculor · November 2002

Well, once Flay tracks down the problem, he'll fix and patch it, and siege cannons will be working correctly again. I've informed him of the problem, as well as given him a link to this thread.

XCan · November 2002

Well with the damage they're doing now i think they're fine since fades got buffed up a lot. The siege is only alright if the damage actually is 35 and not 350 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

ViolenceJack · November 2002

yeah, even so 35 dmg is still bloody good when the aliens cant do **obscenity** about it apart fomr protect the buildings with def chambers

Ahnteis · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Nov 10 2002, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>yeah, even so 35 dmg is still bloody good when the aliens cant do **obscenity** about it apart fomr protect the buildings with def chambers</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
lol.
Just go kill the turret / turret factory for heaven's sake. It's not that hard, even as skulks.

(Assuming that resources haven't been "tweaked" by admins.)

ViPr · November 2002

i think alot of different weaponry needs to be looked into regarding this bug, not just the siege turrets.

Bug Report: Siege Cannon Damage

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