Is One-hive Turret Killing Possible?
JdeFalconr
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2792Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2792Members
<div class="IPBDescription">MUST u have 2 hives? Is that bad?</div> In some NS games I played this weekend we had the immensely difficult problem of trying to kill marine expansions/turrets/structures of any kind with only a single hive. The game had progressed a bit and marines had pretty much blocked us off from our two other hive points, so we were rushing around not only trying to stop marines attacking our base but also the expansions and small turret emplacements they put down, and all we had to do it with were skulks and gorges. The marines didn't really tech all that much and for the majority of the time in this situation, they were using LMG's and light armor.
Now I see several options here...
1. We didn't attack their structures correctly. (either due to teamwork or individual-play problems)
2. This was somehow a fluke and we should have been able to make headway against their turrets.
3. We were outplayed by a skilled team of Marines.
4. We screwed up and didn't recognize and act upon the critical necessity of expanding as Aliens.
5. Aliens are unable to destroy moderately well-placed marine structures without a second hive and its subsequent evolutionary options. We were blocked from building that second hive and therefore could not destroy the Marines' turrets & other structures.
Now I am perfectly willing to entertain the first three options and consider each one plausable. However, I think the fourth and fifth options are the ones that need to be examined for their implications towards necessary gameplay changes.
<b>Should the aliens be required to produce a second hive if they want to destroy Marine turrets? Is this a good/bad thing and can this be an unfair weakness to the Aliens?
Are aliens able to destroy Marine structures, mainly their turrets, with only a single hive? If so, how do they go about doing it? If not, should they be able to?</b>
Now I see several options here...
1. We didn't attack their structures correctly. (either due to teamwork or individual-play problems)
2. This was somehow a fluke and we should have been able to make headway against their turrets.
3. We were outplayed by a skilled team of Marines.
4. We screwed up and didn't recognize and act upon the critical necessity of expanding as Aliens.
5. Aliens are unable to destroy moderately well-placed marine structures without a second hive and its subsequent evolutionary options. We were blocked from building that second hive and therefore could not destroy the Marines' turrets & other structures.
Now I am perfectly willing to entertain the first three options and consider each one plausable. However, I think the fourth and fifth options are the ones that need to be examined for their implications towards necessary gameplay changes.
<b>Should the aliens be required to produce a second hive if they want to destroy Marine turrets? Is this a good/bad thing and can this be an unfair weakness to the Aliens?
Are aliens able to destroy Marine structures, mainly their turrets, with only a single hive? If so, how do they go about doing it? If not, should they be able to?</b>
Comments
Saying that one hive wins vs lots of turrets are something that should be possible would be like saying that LMG marines should be able to win vs Onos.
With leap its much easier, but you can do it without it.
I'd say it's impossible to destroy a well constructed base with only 1 hive... but it's also impossible to destroy a well constructed alien base if you have light armor and only LMGs.
On a side note, I've been told that a skulk can circle strafe around a turret to kill it, in my testing it seems *possible*, but I haven't been able to totally solo a turret yet.. its tricky.
[edit] this is assuming you cant just jump in and take out the factory because of bad turret placement
Also, having a skulk nearby to distract/kill any marines that come by makes it easier. Once the factory goes down, it's lunchtime <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And if possible the turret factory is placed in places where lerks are unable to spike snipe.
(I doubt if such location exists)
A friendly reminder :
NS is not the typical FPS, its a RTS with heavy zone control elements, except that every unit is controlled by a different individual through 1st person mode.
Having leet FPS skills may slightly help a bit, but common sense, strategic mind and great sense of team work is more valued than leet FPS skills.
Its all about zone control :
Capture the zones, secure the zones, deny one's opponent of the zones and one might just find one's path to victory.
Fear not when one's zone appears to be captured and secured by one's opponent, if one puts in enough effort one is able to reclaim the zones.
Its all about team work :
Listen to your team mates, know what is going on.
Its all about everyone playing their roles right :
- Skulks keeps Marines busy while Gorges secure the zones
- Marines moving out as a team to secure the zones while the Commander looks after them
- etc
Recipie:
Take 1 <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Add 1 <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> to roof
Add 1 <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> from a distance
Shake, serve warm
It is not impossible but there are certain cases where it can be very difficult. On maps like ns_nothing where rooms and corridors are tight it can be tough, on maps like ns_eclipse where rooms and corridors are a lot wider it is a lot easier.
This is something you should always look for. Sometimes a commander will put a T-Fac in a place where a single skulk can use it to shield themselves from Turret Fire (Poor Turret Placement). You can just stand behind the T-Fac and chomp it til it goes down.
Skulk Pack rushes can do more damage then you think (By Packs I mean 4 or more Skulks).
Another thing I've done after our team loses a hive or two but still has tons of resources is I set up 2 defense towers outside of the range of the turrets, then some offense slightly closer, and between my heal spray and the defense turrets the offense turrets can take down the nme sentrys.
It's funny how many people seem to forget that having one hive lets you get lerks...
Can't: Siege Cannons, remember?
No, one hive aliens being relatively helpless against marine turrets is a problem I've mentioned time and time again.
When the aliens win, it's usually because they were relentless in their attacks ot the extent where the marines were unable to attain a foothold. Once the marines have hives 2 and 3 turreted off, their victory is already irrevokably secured.
I'm hopng to see something done to provide the aliens a means to bounce back when this happens. Maybe swap the Lerks weapons 2 and 3 or something.
I noticed this last night. If the team you're playing is good, you have close to no chance. They should be smart enough to make their turrets in a circle around the factory, making it hard to take it out. Of course its possible, it just takes alot of time. But, as I said, if they're good, they simply come back 5 minutes later and weld all of your hard work back together after your pesky hit-and-runs. I HAVE come back against a good team with one hive. Took alot of luck, but I simply side strafed until I killed a pesky turret on one side of a factory, and then took the factory out. This didn't take much time and they didn't get there fast enough to stop me. Of course, if you happened to get a fade before your second hive is destroyed, you have a VERY good chance. Just keep that sucker alive.