The Most Annoying Marine Request

Heist · November 2002

As a fairly experienced commander I just wanted to express my extreme hate for the inexperienced marine constantly asking for the shotgun. Listen... If u want a shotgun later in the game then maybe I'll listen. A shotgun at the beginning of the game however is one of the biggest wastes of resources I have seen. 20 resources points so u can maybe win 1 extra 1 on 1 battle. Just don't ask for it. If u do you'll get a swift "No".
Learn to use the underestimated LMG.

Dunsby · November 2002

Erhem, some people cant use the lmg. I myself have my favourite, shotgun + jetpack = PWNED
Shotgun, 20 resources, i suggest that you give to 1 person since it is good to backup teammates.

Heist · November 2002

I did say "early game". Jet-packs aren't early game. I just have trouble justifying 20 resources when they could go towards a new turret factory or resource tower.

MooMoo_the_SnowCow · November 2002

Well there is are problem there don't get the turret factory instead give the guy his shotgun so you can secure a hive easier then get the turret factory and a shiny new resource node.

ShadowWolf · November 2002

Perhaps the shotgun should be cheaper? 15 perhaps? Considering it is supposed to be an early game weapon.

Aside from that, I personally prefer the shotgun the the LMG, and it some circumstances even the HMG. Its GREAT for popping those <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> and <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'> 's. I think its worth the investment.

20 is a bit much tho. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Woggy · November 2002

No, 20s fine. Sometimes the shotgun is better than the HMG so any cheaper and everyone will get shotguns and us poor skulks cant survive

Nemesis_Zero · November 2002

Whoever said the shotgun is supposed to be an early game weapon?

Yes, it <i>can</i> be, if the commander decides to rather equip his marines than invest in a fixed defense, but don't believe it has to be.

Anarchy · November 2002

When I play the marines (rarely) I prefer the shotgun over anything else. But I can wait for it until mid game, or even late game. The LMG is good enough until they get Fades, then I need a shotgun, well, not need, but it definetly helps.

RhoadsToNowhere · November 2002

Try to convince [FoR]Storm, Humbaba, or even myself that the shotgun is useless. I dare you. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> IMHO it's much easier to kill Skulks and Gorges with a shotgun than with an LMG. Even Fades can be roasted at close range with a few shells. And the shotgun is far more effective against structures than the LMG.

Also, when calculating the costs of what it takes to equip marines with shotguns versus HMG's, don't forget to include the cost of upgrading your armory. While I'm sure this does cancel out in the long run, it IS something to take into consideration. You'll also have to keep in mind that you might have to expend a few resources giving ammo to your marines while the armory upgrades.

Jorec · November 2002

The shotgun is an exellent weapon, I use it as much as possible, ask for it and whatnot, But early in the game, it is a bit expensive, but also that is when it might be the most useful in the hands of a skillful player.

<wants to be one of those skillful players > <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Cork · November 2002

Bah. I knifed a few fades already.

Anyways I don't like the shotty. So don't worry, I'll never ask you for it. But as far as the LMG.. it blows. Gimmie HMG and I'll never ask for anything else.

Unknown · November 2002

Don't worry I don't like the shotty too much. Give me a bigger clip of the pistol and I'll be happy.

Well.... actually..... I don't like marines either. KHARAA FOREVER!!!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'>

coil · November 2002

It all depends on your players. As Rhoads said - if I'm commanding Storm or Humbaba, I give them a shotgun as soon as I can spare the resources. They're both *brutal* with them. If you know your marines, and know one of them is good with a shotty, make the exception.

geldonyetich · November 2002

I asked my commander for a Pony, but I never got one.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

I must be misusing the shotguns, I never do very well with them. I once had to blast a gorge, without defencive structure healing, about 5 times before it went down. The blood splats made it look like I hit with about 6-8 fragements each time too.

Tediak · November 2002

When I play marines I prefer the Shotgun/Jetpack over everything else. It's great to hunt down those lerks and skulks hiding up near the cieling or in the vents.

BlackRoc · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Heist @ Nov 9 2002, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A shotgun at the beginning of the game however is one of the biggest wastes of resources I have seen. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Heist, you are seriously mistaken. The shotgun is THE BEST early game upgrade. I drop these before i set up the turrets to deal with the rushers. I myself can usually take down 5-6 aliens without any assistance from anyone, including health from commander, before I get taken down. One time I played, I had the shotgun for about 30 mins and killed at least 20 aliens with it.

A tactic I use is drop 2 shotguns at base after the spawn point then work on turrets. I have yet to loose a game with few tactics I have worked out. My tactics my sound crazy but they work. I usually have to tell the marines to trust me and after they calm down, they realize my plans are working.

You should seriously reconsider your arguement until you really test out a 4 man squad with 2 shotguns ans 2 LMG early game.

Shrike3O · November 2002

Main advantage that the shotgun has over the HMG is that it DOESN'T SLOW YOU DOWN. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> Big advantage, IMO, if you're not wearing heavy armor...

20 is a bit much, but any less than 17 or so would be too little <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Hobbes_the_Scary_Tiger · November 2002

well, if going to try to equip troops in the begin. of a game... why give em a shot gun? all the other guys have are skulks and they take what a few shots? I can see giving em out to get some resource towers up but i can see em to stop early on rushers... they seem kinda like a waste...

This is comming from a person that hates to use to the shotgun because of lag :-D

Mobay · November 2002

A shotgun can take out a whole hive at the beginning of the game if the commander helps him with medic packs and ammo...

Benolan · November 2002

I can understand not wanting to drop shotties in early game if you don't know your teammates... I love to go skulking, and I certaily get to know the good marines from the bad...

A pretty good player has a shot of taking me down one on one with an LMG... But on the other hand, I can take out 4 not so good players at once.. And unless you know your people, it's a good expenditure, or a crying shame.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

MercenaryForHire · November 2002

I had a bit of Marine fun last night. Commander dropped me a shotgun and five seconds later the base gets attacked by a small group of Skulks. Since they were still a bit off, I whipped out the pistol to start plucking away at them. Of course, pistol always means "out of primary ammo", right? Right?

Ha. Around ten paces away, the ol' streetsweeper came out and plastered Skulk all over the walls. As has been said before - do <b>not</b> underestimate the power of the Shotgun.

- M4H

Bridger · November 2002

shotguns are *suposed* to be early game weapons, it says so in the manual. The problem is they cost too much, they should be like 12 insted, maybe 15.

Bridger · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Nov 10 2002, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Whoever said the shotgun is supposed to be an early game weapon?

Yes, it <i>can</i> be, if the commander decides to rather equip his marines than invest in a fixed defense, but don't believe it has to be.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
<a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/weapons_shotgun.html' target='_blank'>http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/we...ns_shotgun.html</a>
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Its relatively basic design makes it a cost-effective upgrade early on in an engagement.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Does that answer your question? I think it still should be a bit cheaper, maybe 15-18.

JRPereira · November 2002

While some people may be excellent with a shotgun, most soldiers won't live 2 seconds if attacked early in the game by a decent alien, I think I'd rather waste that money on some turrets. I agree that some players do incredibly well with it, but I'd rather play it safe and let them use something free. Later when they need those HMG's and grenade launchers I won't have already wasted like 100 rp's to buy shotguns.

Killbert · November 2002

Don't forget, that shotgun can be picked up from the corple, after he's been killed by me. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> So one shotgun could be recycled for a long time.

Slycaster · November 2002

I think alot of commanders fail to realize that a human defense is so much better then an automated one (sentry turrets). If you set 2 marines to gaurd the base while the rest conquer the map, its at the very least 40 RP saved which could be used for fortifying a hive quickly. The shotgun is AWESOME for the start of the game. Here is an example good commander build:

2 IPs: 30 RP
Armory: 25
1 Shotgun: 20

Total: 75 RP of 100

Proceed to send your squad out to an unoccupied hive, by the time you make it there, you should have at least 35 RP, if not 40 or more.

Resource Tower: 22

Wait a bit, 25 RP's should be there in NO time.

Turret Factory: 25

Set your marines on guard, and wait till you have 19 RP's, drop a turret, rinse and repeat. The marines at your main base should have an easy time defending as the shotgunner can literally whipe all skulks in seconds.

If followed correctly, this takes less then 3 minutes to completely do, and you now have denied the aliens of a hive, and grabbed yourself a resource node.

NarkVader · November 2002

Heist is right, It is bad to give shot guns early in the game UNLESS you know the marine knows how to use it. Now i sent a group of 5 marines 3 times to the hive last time i gave 2 of them shotys this was early in the game.... every time my marines died to one or two skulks.... the weakest group of marines i ever seen and a dam waste of resorces... so i droped a shot gun and did the dirty work my self.

some times it a good idea most of the time its a bad idea unless you play on a regular server but I usaly do not becuse any server i like is full 90 percent of the time and stays full for freking 30+ minutes most of the time.

The only thing i hate more is a marine telling me to drop every weapon /armor lab and upgrade ... im not going to build/waste 200+ resorces start of game. I go and secure the hives then worrie about armor.

Xaw · November 2002

Hi all,

First I'd like to say that I discovered this mod during last weekend... it rocks !!!
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

I think that requesting to make things cheaper isn't reasonable. Remember starcraft,
it took blizzard ages to make the races more or less even. It will be the same problem
here... the way to play both races is very different, and therefore even a little change
in price or shooting power can make the ballance collapse.

I for example think that the bile bomb from the Fade could be more destructive...
And that is a late game weapon.
Ok I'm a beginner... but during the hours I played I had often the occasion to shoot
lot's of those bombs on structures without sometimes succeeding to destroy them...
and I did hit the target !!!

Well, my two cents.. ;-)

Xaw

HavoK · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bridger @ Nov 11 2002, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/weapons_shotgun.html' target='_blank'>http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/we...ns_shotgun.html</a>
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Its relatively basic design makes it a cost-effective upgrade early on in an engagement.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Does that answer your question? I think it still should be a bit cheaper, maybe 15-18.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That sentence has nothing to do with the cost of the Shotgun, just that its constuction is simple enough that a Basic Armory can construct it. And a Basic Armory is certainly available "early on in an engagement."

MercenaryForHire · November 2002

With the 1.02 patch in beta now and being tested, what's the opinion on the shiny new revamped weaker-but-cheaper shotgun? Seen any more of those? I know I have.

- M4H

Peristalsis · November 2002

As a Marine you use what you got! If you asked you commander/captain for another gun you would get laughed out! Remember if you die with expensive equiptment you have cost your country (oops- team!!) a fortune. If you cant use the lmg- then ruddy well learn! - If your running out of ammo - fall back to an ammo point. LMG is very powerfull - if theres 6 of you firing not a lot can survive it!
If your doing well and the commander asks if you want a shotgun - say no - HMG eats em for breakfast!
Your commander will equip you when he can !

Remember your training!!

P

The Most Annoying Marine Request

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