How About Max 30 Marine Turrets?

MrFaceMuncher · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Limiting turret spam</div> As the title says wot are the reasons against topping the max numbers of marine turrets...

Necro · November 2002

why? it's like limiting ONOS to 1 per team, instead limit the amount IN AN AREA to like 6

MonsieurEvil · November 2002

After a few days of playing with a fixed resource economy, I have not seen the massive turret spam anymore. It's simply due to cost - if a commander spends all his money on turrets, the troops get diddly. And they they get eaten. Besides, having turrets power off due to loss of the turret factory makes them much easier to cripple now. I especially love commanders that lay a turret factory, and then a screen of turrets on one side of it. I get behind it, eat the fac, and the turrets all shut off, without a scratch on my shiny hide.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

MrFaceMuncher · November 2002

ONO's = about right in power.

Marine turrets (if spammed all over the map) = overpowered

We posted same time ME -- hmmm im prolly talking from a prepatch viewpoint - ill have a few more games and check.....

Yeah i noticed the turrets powering down after i took out a turretfactory -- i was wondering why i hadnt noticed that effect before -- hehe i like the patch <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Bridger · November 2002

turrets arn't too bad, bcause if the commander is spending THAT much on turrets, it means his marines don't have any real upgrades. Kill the marines, kill the turret factory, kill the turrets, in that order <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Piggy · November 2002

nah..its fine...you can always blink past them.

markc · November 2002

What about alien turret spam? I am new, but in the majority of the games I played, there were massive quantities of alien turrets, choking hallways. As a marine, it is just long and tedious to go through all that.

Necro · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bridger @ Nov 8 2002, 02:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>turrets arn't too bad, bcause if the commander is spending THAT much on turrets, it means his marines don't have any real upgrades. Kill the marines, kill the turret factory, kill the turrets, in that order <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
or the aliens COMPLETELY suck, i just played a game we didn't have laods of turrets but a lot of upgrades 500rp all the time and almost all the nodes.

Legionnaired · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (markc @ Nov 8 2002, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What about alien turret spam? I am new, but in the majority of the games I played, there were massive quantities of alien turrets, choking hallways. As a marine, it is just long and tedious to go through all that.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That's the point, slow em down so they cant get through to the hive...

That's what grenade launchers are for <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

BlacKnight · November 2002

hehe yeah but even grenade launchers take a while for those things. I play aliens most of the time and let me tell you, If I have 6 offense towers and 4-6 deffense towers piled into a farm that is a 3X3 stack I really pity the marrine that has to go through it. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Legionnaired · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlacKnight @ Nov 9 2002, 01:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>hehe yeah but even grenade launchers take a while for those things. I play aliens most of the time and let me tell you, If I have 6 offense towers and 4-6 deffense towers piled into a farm that is a 3X3 stack I really pity the marrine that has to go through it. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I, however, do not pity the squad of 2 GL's and 4 HMG's that will rip through it like a hot knife through butter.

fraggleroc · November 2002

i think there should be max 6 or 8 turrets that can be powered by a turret factory. anyway its unrealistic that a turret factory can power infinite number of turrets. i noticed also that lotsa turrets=greater lag.

RaWWaz · November 2002

i dont see so much turret spam, but when i see it, i morph 2 a lerk, fly <b>FAST</b> through the turret spam, behind the turret factory, and just bite/spore it, if it isnt any turrets behind it 2, then i must do another thing, wich i cant explaine in english, but its so easy 2 get behind and just eat it! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'>

JRPereira · November 2002

I see it this way, if the turret count is actually unlimited, it should be limited -- you can only put so many chambers in an area if you're alien.

MrPink · November 2002

im gonna have to go with monse on this one

RotA_Plague · November 2002

Well I was just about to go to suggestions and ideas forum to post this, but seeing how it is releated I will add it to this thread. I think turret factory should be able to support as many turrets as possible, but after X amount they become less effective. They shoot slower and turn slower. If you have many turret factorys more then needed they might go slightly faster. The real problem I have with all turrets is unlimited ammo... The fact that a turret could shoot forever and ever really annoys me. I think Y(using different variable to not confuse the weak minded) amount of bullets for marines should cost Z amount for resources. And basicly the same thing for aliens, or maybe not(I am talking about the bullet thing not the turret factory thing). I think that would prevent alot of turret spam.

Oh yes and while I am on the thing of suggesting things I might as well mention I have a idea for sensory chambers. If the marine has a observatory and the alien has a sensory chamber the aliens should be able to still go cloaked, but if the marines have 1 more observatory then the aliens do sensory then the aliens cannot cloak and the other way around. I know, it sounds somewhat mindless but it just a idea..... THE SENSORY WARS!!

Heist · November 2002

I have actually been supprised at the relative ease I have with taking down unmanned turret bases on my own. Don't underestimate the lerk's spike shoot. Most commanders now put turrets on all sides of the factory but that just means u take out 1 or 2 turrets before u can come up behind the factory.
Fear the Spike.

Explosive · November 2002

primarily as a commander when i play marines, i think there definately needs to be a restriction on turrets. its just to easy to slowy expand with normal turrets, then pile in the seige turrets. combine with a couple of good troops with HA and HMG/Grens its near unstoppable... (unless aliens are working togther properly)

Heist · November 2002

I guess what I meant was that Aliens have to be adaptable. Marines can't man all of the turret stations at one time so if they are attacking one hive then find another way to take them out from behind.

Anarchy · November 2002

It used to be extremely hard to take down a little marine encampment with like 3 skulks, or fades sometimes, depending on how hard the spam was. But now, with the patch, the fact that destroying the turret factory powers them all down, is what makes it so easy to take one down solo if the commander is stupid. They usually put the factory without anything behind it, because they think "oh, nothing can get through these turrets to the factory, why protect it from all angles". I think the commanders are gonna start realizing eventually that it needs to be protected from every angle, because as a skulk, I can blaze in there, dodging all the turret fire, get behind the factory and destroy it, then take out the resource tower, then the turrets. It's easy, if you know what your doing. I think they need no more balancing, the factory thing completely balances it out.

MrFaceMuncher · November 2002

Gotta agree with anarchy on this.

The new turret power down effect really makes turret hunting easy for inteligent sulks....

Cork · November 2002

Well, however this sways your opinions.

last night, 5v5 game, some pretty knowledgable players - scene set.

Would have been an easy match, but we lost a decisive battle do totwo players dropping and two new ones joining. So, after 35 minutes or so of getting our **obscenity** stomped by a 3-hive swarm, we ended up at com center. Holed up. We had limited resources. What to do? Make turrets. With only 1 resource tower, they came few and far between. Luckily, the alien team thought were were surging for a huge battle. So they did what we did. By the time they said "Ok, screw it already, lets go get em!", we have about 30 turrets in the room. After that, It was pretty simple. Baddies rush ono.. dead. Baddies rush ono.. dead. baddies rush Fade.. dead again.. ad nauseum.

just kept dropping nade launchers and welders.

That scene went on for more an hour I think. Until the admin decided to change map (he was an alien and thought they could win). I give mad props to my commander last night.

[EDIT]: For reference, the lag of the server went up to about 700 per person with all those turrets. Blinking ono.

gg <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

SoSD · November 2002

An alien team that can't deal with turrets is a team that doesn't use the Lerk. Umbra! Umbra! Umbra!

Further, if your alien team has an entire maps worth of resource nodes at it's disposal, and three hives.. Well, there's really no excuse. With the Onos to charge in, wreaking havoc and destroying turret factories, the Fade to Bilebomb the hell out of everything (I like to target the Armory as it tends to have lots of marines around it!), and the Lerk to flood the area with nasty toxic vapours (I like to keep a constant cloud of the **obscenity** over their Infantry Portals!), the Marines are doomed.

Brew · November 2002

turrets are fine, umbra gets you in long enough to take out the factory. (and thus enable a forward heal farm to make assaults easier)

The problem is the grenades.
No way around them, no way to dodge a whole wall of them, spam around a corner and take out an entire alien chamber forest, protect a single room for as long as you want to...

umbra needs to absorb some explosive shock. Not even all of it, maybe just half of it.

With no friendly fire on grenades, marines are free to spam as much and as often as possible, especially with "free ammo" at the armory, and a single welder able to repair any damage aliens might be able to inflict. Even a whole team of fades blinking into the back of the room could maybe take out only one or two marines, who will spawn back in and be fully rearmed by the time the aliens respawn, evolve, hatch, and make the trek back up there. It's a stalemate at that point.

I've played marines several times now. I've seen how easy it is to chew apart chambers with a HMG.. just take out the defensive ones first. I've also seen how easy it is to get chomped from behind by a skulk.. to get trampled by an onos.

Like I said, its mostly balanced between the two teams -- but the imbalance is in the grenade spam. There's no defense for it. And no way to attack through it. In that other thread, to the people who think grenades are fine, I asked for a single useful tactic around them. Never got one.

Turrets are fine, umbra is the counter.
IMO, either Umbra needs to absorb some explosion, or freindly fire needs to be always on for grenades.

-Brew

Wolv · November 2002

Flayra already seems to have this covered <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=9204&hl=sphere' target='_blank'>here</a>.

OPIE · November 2002

To be honest. Marines have it real hard. They are really balanced teams but the Marines have slow starts, always spending the first amount of rescources to defend the main base. Tha Aliens on the other hand can go right out and start building because the marines have to defend the base from **obscenity** alien rushes in the beginning. If turrets were limited the Aliens would be too strong, and if turrets had to have a limited amount of ammo, oh boy now that would also be unbarable to be a marine.

I see everyones points in their ideas, but remember this is a Online game. Not realife, alot of people want games to be as realistic as possible. yeah reality in games is cool to some points, but games were ment for fun. Total reality in games completely ruins the concept and the game its self.

If the marines lose unlimited turrets it spells doom for future marine gamers in NS. If the marines are spending a countless amount of rescources on turrets, it means armor/guns most likly will not be researched. All you need to do to take out turrets is a couple fades with bilebomb capibilities and you can take out groups of turrets in a few min. Have a onos or skulks to protect the fades or hold off the marines untill the turrets are down. And if you dont have the bile bomb the acid rockets do a hefty amount of damage and again cover the fades. Its not that hard to work as a team except when you get the people that just go do their own thing, but each team usualy has one of those guys on their team.

I started out always joining the marine side, I made a pretty good commander I just simply like the field better because the responsibility for commander is BIG, and I just simply dont want that responsibility. From the beginning the marines are down a man if the teams are "even" say like a5v5. Only 4 are in the field and the Alien Gorgs can attack, so its not like they are just building.

Taking away unlimited amount of turrets for the marines will unbalance the teams incredibly. I dont agree with factories only being able to support so many turrets, because if you think about it the turrets have to be placed withen the factory range, so you could say they are limited by a factory anyways, factories are hard to defend I found when you have a onos rush heading in. If the Aliens do manage to get 3 hives its over right there. There have been combacks from it but thats only because players on the Alien side got dissconnected or just decided ot leave.

Everyone sits here and complains about turret spam, but remember if the commander spams the soldiers suffer. If your made cause you sit there and just runinto the turrets and die, you deserve it, your stupid not to take your time and slowly take them out, it requiers patients but the job will get done.

We should all be worrying about **obscenity** commanders who spend all the rescources on command centers right away then jump out and destroy the spawn points, and those TKers are annoying as well. I myself have seen very few marine wins unless the teams were outnumbered. So the issue is about the aliens here. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

zoda · November 2002

If you do that you probably wont have many resources and wont have enough to build anything else quick

Jasper · November 2002

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

The_Howler · November 2002

I'd like to see turret building limited in each area mainly because I run a server. It's a 2000+ XP with 512 DDR and sits on a 768 kb/s sDSL line (which isn't huge, I realize that). I run 14 people, always filled, and usually only use about half of my bandwidth (about 50 KB/s) with everyone pinging around 50 - 120. My server has been up since the night NS came out, and has lagged, to my knowledge, three times. All three were on the map ns_eclipse, and the marines being cornered in their base built up quite a few turrets there (30+). With all seven marines camped in the base + 30+ turrets + seven aliens rushing in, my bandwidth jumps to 100% and everyone pings 800+. While it's not a huge ordeal, it does kind of suck to have a server that everyone really enjoys playing on because of the pings and zero lag only to have it lag once a week or so due to turret spam.

Edcrab · November 2002

I think that if alien's have some sort of chamber limit the same needs to be applied to marines; perhaps limiting them per factory, and limiting factory placement WITHIN AN AREA. A map limit, for <i>anything</i> in NS, is just plain daft. I'm happy to have nearly a hundred marine turrets on a map, but the same amount in an unclaimed alien hive is a different story...

That said, the factory>turret disability feature was a great idea. On ns_hera, as a skulk, I spied that the marines had build a TF with five sentries and two siege turrets- and the siege's were splattering our holoroom defences whenever we tried to build. But with one quick leap, I'd cleared the sentries and I was behind the counter- where they had the factory. Much chewing later, the whole outpost, res tower and all, was gone- allowing our gorges to claim it. Then a second later that was levelled by the other line of siege turrets. Gah. We won eventually though... they'd only given their actual base four turrets <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Different story when some smart-arse blocks their factory in round a corner, or literally walls it on all sides with sentries... a limit would be great, if sensible...

How About Max 30 Marine Turrets?

Comments