<!--QuoteBegin-Meat_Popsicle+Sep 9 2004, 10:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Meat_Popsicle @ Sep 9 2004, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> bearing in mind this has to fit on a texture <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> think ill just stick with "The TSAS Darwin" besides ive allready PM'd enforcer about it to see if he'd like to do the texture.
progress today: decided to redo a corridor, got the model for the stasis tubes, bout it
p.s. anyone know how to change the back colour for the 3D view in hammer, black is such a stupid colour considering how most textures are dark in nature <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> now if it was to be "tsas darwin, olimpian clas..." you could do as you were saying and just put "TSAS Darwin" on a texture and put the "tsas darwin, olimpian clas..." in a sound file like however you set up the explanation of the sip like "Welcome to TSAS darwin, Olympiad class transport and communications vessel, on your say here you will do bla bla bla bank chank im talking ping pong" or whatever, adding a little depth to a background for the setup.
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
if you have troubles figuring out how to get the level to switch, would a env_fade/trigger_teleport combo work, or is the total map area too big to fit all in one mapgrid?
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkHand69+Sep 9 2004, 05:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkHand69 @ Sep 9 2004, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bit of a snag...
My microphone has died on me... It's not too bad though, it's just a broken wire near the base of it... I'll have to resolder it. I didn't plan on getting the recordings done till the weekend anyway, but I had some extra time tonight and was going to try to get some done early. Guess that's not gonna happen but they should still be on time, around monday or so. I did get a hilarious (to me, anyway) <a href='http://civic-minded.com/albums/TestStuff/Outtake.mp3' target='_blank'>outtake</a> out of it though... For some reason I reverted to Sean Connery when I noticed the problem. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol, i know that feeling...
Nice "Sstation Names"
Looks like this map wont die out like most, but some progress, pics or just some words would be nice...
annnnyywaaayys... i think im gonna hav to merge the level back into 1 part again <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> i doubt Flay's gonna code a level change thing just for a training map and the 2 parts r getting inconsistincies anyway. there arent any hard coded entity limits though are there? cos the number of entitys is gonna be slightly ridiculous
Does this mean the map is gonna get delayed <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
No, there's no hardcoded limit. There's only a hardware limit <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> But since it's singleplayer, I wouldn't care for the entity count pretty much. That's only interesting for multiplayer and when it's running at a server. But even then.. in a previous version of the map I'm working at, I had a number of entites above the 500 and it still was running fine on the server. But back on track.. in my opinion you shouldn't worry about the entity limit in first place. If it's nessecary to merge the two parts, then do it. Get it working, and think about the entity limit later on. But I would suggest you, that if you merge the two parts into one, that you make them as two seperate areas within the map and only connect them with a trigger teleport. So that if one time NS supports multi-bsp levels, you can simply take the second part out of the bsp and put it into a new one. saves you from some work <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
hmm adding a teleport will be sketchy, not to mention the filesize will be needlessly massive...
i think im gonna merge them (at the expense of some atmosphere, like not being able to trigger lights that blink).
all that needs doing is copying the holo room and all the triggers leading up to it into the second half, rendering the spinning alarm lights invisible until after u visit holographics, and adding a door so u cant see the infested blockage untill uve gone to the arms cache (which needs to also only be accessable until after uv visited holografx), hmm shuldnt take more than a few hours, can anyone think of any other problems im gonna encounter? grr, better do some backups b4 i attempt this, the entity work for the first half alone was monstrously complicated <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
anyway, heres a corridor iv been playing with, lighting needs tweakage
<!--QuoteBegin-Hibame+Sep 9 2004, 09:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hibame @ Sep 9 2004, 09:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Align+Sep 9 2004, 03:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Sep 9 2004, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why are you using beta4 when OCs finally work in b5? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really hope your joking <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ?
Any newcomers will get beta 5 and not beta 4, so it seems to me that it would be more logical to use the beta 5 .fgd, should there be any important changes. Now, in beta 5 there are no important changes, I know, but you really ought to make a habit of using the latest version of something, when developing(mapping in our case) for that thing.
erm i was talking about hammer, and the reason i dont use hammer 3.5 cos its still only a beta (last i heard anyway) and i dont really fancy using a possibly unstable beta when it comes to somethin like mapping
Actually I've been using the hammer beta for a while now and I haven't had any problems. It's also nice to be able to see some of the models in the editor and be able to load up the pointfile in the 3D view.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Sep 10 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 10 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually I've been using the hammer beta for a while now and I haven't had any problems. It's also nice to be able to see some of the models in the editor and be able to load up the pointfile in the 3D view. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, it really isn't unstable at all, and it adds a hell of a lot of features.
<!--QuoteBegin-Meat_Popsicle+Sep 10 2004, 05:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Meat_Popsicle @ Sep 10 2004, 05:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lmao, nice sean connery impression ??? *shakes head* ;) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh you should hear some of the things in between the clips I keep! I record one big sound file and snip out the good stuff to use. But in between all the stuff I throw out and the few I keep is mostly me rambling on about things, doing voices, singing, yelling, random gibberish, etc. It's total madness. :)
And about the trigger_changelevel, I'm still holding out that the devs will come through for us. Meat popsicle already knows, but for everyone else, I contacted Zunni the PR guy and he said he'd pass the problem on to the devs. A training map has been needed for some time, and hopefully we can get the trigger_changelevel working for us so we can make a great training map. :)
well that was easy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if u hav a light which starts off, but is set to blinking. and u trigger it to turn on, it appears as a solid light <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> rather than a blinking light? do u hav to use an env render to sort this?
What you could do with a teleport is to make the lights completly dark out and can't see a thing, then you teleport the said player so it fades back in... and volia he's in a destroyed map.
The filesize might get really big because of this but it does have the potentially look a hell of a lot better.
Give a shot, if you don't like it then you can just stick with the way you have it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 10 2004, 05:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 10 2004, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What you could do with a teleport is to make the lights completly dark out and can't see a thing, then you teleport the said player so it fades back in... and volia he's in a destroyed map.
The filesize might get really big because of this but it does have the potentially look a hell of a lot better.
Give a shot, if you don't like it then you can just stick with the way you have it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This was suggested (although with an env_fade which would be better).
Anyhow. Meat_Popsicle, there is no way to have a triggerable light with a custom effect.
ok well thats the only difference the player wuld notice between the level in 2 parts and the merged level, everything else i can trigger and ur only restepping over a small part of the level anyway, but the reduced filesize and level consistency alone makes it worth doing
I dont know whether or not this has been mentioned, but have you considered contacting Flayra about using this map as a hazard course like thing? If not I would really recomend it, because it looks great and is just what NS needs.
<!--QuoteBegin-Meat_Popsicle+Sep 10 2004, 11:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Meat_Popsicle @ Sep 10 2004, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ok well thats the only difference the player wuld notice between the level in 2 parts and the merged level <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Aww that's it? After the Onos attack I envisioned broken panels, flickering lights, collapsed walls/ceilings, jets of gas spewing from ruptured pipes, hanging smoke in the air, etc. I guess compromises have to be made though. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Sep 10 2004, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Sep 10 2004, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What you could do with a teleport is to make the lights completly dark out and can't see a thing, then you teleport the said player so it fades back in... and volia he's in a destroyed map.
The filesize might get really big because of this but it does have the potentially look a hell of a lot better.
Give a shot, if you don't like it then you can just stick with the way you have it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, it's actually a good idea. The size might be bigger, but hell, who cares?
But can't you run a command on the client? Like "map ns_trainingmap_part2.bsp"? Just wondering..
im getting a weird framerate issue with the 2 parts merged as well, i can run around docking with no problems watsoever, if i run around holographics (which is directley below) my framerate drops to 20fps (bearing in mind i hav a very beefy pc), like wise if i get in the comm chair located in docking, the framerate plunges down to like 20 again <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: about the 2 levels in the same bsp idea, u wuld see it when u sit in the comm chair
Do you have a lot of entities in the room below? IIRC, NS uses a different system for determining entity visibility - any ents within the maxculldistance are rendered, rather than just ents in the PVS.
i have an absolute butt load of entities in the room below holograhpic presentation followed by the under attack scene), but i didnt get this problem when the map was in 2 parts, im guessing distributing them over the maps not gonna help
I had the same slowdown problem the first time I ran through it, but the second time it messed up... I spawned in the ready room as a marine, and had to F4 and pick again to get it to work. That time through holographics didn't slow down at all, but it was about 10 seconds out of sync. Was very weird.
And if what prsearle is true, if you place the two halves of the map far enough apart that they're outside the max cull distance, the entities of the two halves won't all render at once, and it should prevent that slow down.
uhm.. if you would have two seperate parts in the bsp you could have the fist one placed above the comm view height. so he can't see it and it wouldn't contribute to wpoly/eoply
yeh i noticed the merged version has a tendency to crash, arghhhhh, the half-life 2 engine better have less limitations! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ****ing level
edit: bah im taking the day off, might work on my new <a href='http://www.meat.im00.net/' target='_blank'>slice of webpie</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyhow. Meat_Popsicle, there is no way to have a triggerable light with a custom effect. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't know if this one is worked around already, but using the <i>pattern</i> (possibly named <i>custom appearance</i> in Hammer with smartedit) instead of the <i>style</i> specific allows for triggerable lights with a custom effect.
well it doesnt actually matter now as im gonna have to split the level back into 2 anyway <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> nice to kno tho
omg omg omg... I want to test the map ... % left ? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> on it.
Comments
think ill just stick with "The TSAS Darwin" besides ive allready PM'd enforcer about it to see if he'd like to do the texture.
progress today: decided to redo a corridor, got the model for the stasis tubes, bout it
p.s. anyone know how to change the back colour for the 3D view in hammer, black is such a stupid colour considering how most textures are dark in nature <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
now if it was to be "tsas darwin, olimpian clas..." you could do as you were saying and just put "TSAS Darwin" on a texture and put the "tsas darwin, olimpian clas..." in a sound file like however you set up the explanation of the sip like "Welcome to TSAS darwin, Olympiad class transport and communications vessel, on your say here you will do bla bla bla bank chank im talking ping pong" or whatever, adding a little depth to a background for the setup.
....meh, just sugesting.
My microphone has died on me... It's not too bad though, it's just a broken wire near the base of it... I'll have to resolder it. I didn't plan on getting the recordings done till the weekend anyway, but I had some extra time tonight and was going to try to get some done early. Guess that's not gonna happen but they should still be on time, around monday or so. I did get a hilarious (to me, anyway) <a href='http://civic-minded.com/albums/TestStuff/Outtake.mp3' target='_blank'>outtake</a> out of it though... For some reason I reverted to Sean Connery when I noticed the problem. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, i know that feeling...
Nice "Sstation Names"
Looks like this map wont die out like most, but some progress, pics or just some words would be nice...
annnnyywaaayys... i think im gonna hav to merge the level back into 1 part again <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> i doubt Flay's gonna code a level change thing just for a training map and the 2 parts r getting inconsistincies anyway. there arent any hard coded entity limits though are there? cos the number of entitys is gonna be slightly ridiculous
But since it's singleplayer, I wouldn't care for the entity count pretty much. That's only interesting for multiplayer and when it's running at a server.
But even then.. in a previous version of the map I'm working at, I had a number of entites above the 500 and it still was running fine on the server.
But back on track.. in my opinion you shouldn't worry about the entity limit in first place. If it's nessecary to merge the two parts, then do it. Get it working, and think about the entity limit later on.
But I would suggest you, that if you merge the two parts into one, that you make them as two seperate areas within the map and only connect them with a trigger teleport. So that if one time NS supports multi-bsp levels, you can simply take the second part out of the bsp and put it into a new one.
saves you from some work <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i think im gonna merge them (at the expense of some atmosphere, like not being able to trigger lights that blink).
all that needs doing is copying the holo room and all the triggers leading up to it into the second half, rendering the spinning alarm lights invisible until after u visit holographics, and adding a door so u cant see the infested blockage untill uve gone to the arms cache (which needs to also only be accessable until after uv visited holografx), hmm shuldnt take more than a few hours, can anyone think of any other problems im gonna encounter? grr, better do some backups b4 i attempt this, the entity work for the first half alone was monstrously complicated <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
anyway, heres a corridor iv been playing with, lighting needs tweakage
I really hope your joking <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?
Any newcomers will get beta 5 and not beta 4, so it seems to me that it would be more logical to use the beta 5 .fgd, should there be any important changes.
Now, in beta 5 there are no important changes, I know, but you really ought to make a habit of using the latest version of something, when developing(mapping in our case) for that thing.
anyway, back on topic plz
Yeah, it really isn't unstable at all, and it adds a hell of a lot of features.
oh btw, the training look wery nice! keep upp the good work!
Oh you should hear some of the things in between the clips I keep! I record one big sound file and snip out the good stuff to use. But in between all the stuff I throw out and the few I keep is mostly me rambling on about things, doing voices, singing, yelling, random gibberish, etc. It's total madness. :)
And about the trigger_changelevel, I'm still holding out that the devs will come through for us. Meat popsicle already knows, but for everyone else, I contacted Zunni the PR guy and he said he'd pass the problem on to the devs. A training map has been needed for some time, and hopefully we can get the trigger_changelevel working for us so we can make a great training map. :)
well that was easy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if u hav a light which starts off, but is set to blinking. and u trigger it to turn on, it appears as a solid light <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> rather than a blinking light? do u hav to use an env render to sort this?
The filesize might get really big because of this but it does have the potentially look a hell of a lot better.
Give a shot, if you don't like it then you can just stick with the way you have it.
The filesize might get really big because of this but it does have the potentially look a hell of a lot better.
Give a shot, if you don't like it then you can just stick with the way you have it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was suggested (although with an env_fade which would be better).
Anyhow. Meat_Popsicle, there is no way to have a triggerable light with a custom effect.
Aww that's it? After the Onos attack I envisioned broken panels, flickering lights, collapsed walls/ceilings, jets of gas spewing from ruptured pipes, hanging smoke in the air, etc. I guess compromises have to be made though. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The filesize might get really big because of this but it does have the potentially look a hell of a lot better.
Give a shot, if you don't like it then you can just stick with the way you have it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it's actually a good idea. The size might be bigger, but hell, who cares?
But can't you run a command on the client? Like "map ns_trainingmap_part2.bsp"? Just wondering..
edit: about the 2 levels in the same bsp idea, u wuld see it when u sit in the comm chair
And if what prsearle is true, if you place the two halves of the map far enough apart that they're outside the max cull distance, the entities of the two halves won't all render at once, and it should prevent that slow down.
edit: bah im taking the day off, might work on my new <a href='http://www.meat.im00.net/' target='_blank'>slice of webpie</a>
Don't know if this one is worked around already, but using the <i>pattern</i> (possibly named <i>custom appearance</i> in Hammer with smartedit) instead of the <i>style</i> specific allows for triggerable lights with a custom effect.
progress = %?
progress = %? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
..