You could implement Cheesy's respawn system instead, or just stick to the old one. (Both of which do punish your team for dying too much). This one simply isn't fun.
Alternatively, instead of allowing everyone to respawn as skulks, why don't add a "de-evolve" option that allows you to revert to the vanilla skulk and get all your points back. It fixes the grenade spawncamping problem without compromising versatility.
<!--QuoteBegin-Alkiller+Sep 4 2004, 02:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alkiller @ Sep 4 2004, 02:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The gestation time was shortened, you should be able to go onos in the nick of time (maybe bind it to a key?)
Let's play it before we trash it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually it takes longer now to evolve :>
Everyone spawning as skulk is a serious problem, IMO. If you die as a gorge while healing the hive, you used to come back as a gorge and could carry on healing. Now you have to re-evolve, during which time you're quite likely to get egg-killed or the hive is going to take even more damage.
A group of mixed aliens spawning back in could often repel a marine advance. A group of skulks and eggs is no use at all and the marines just walk all over you.
The idea mentioned earlier of giving you an option while waiting to spawn to either go back to skulk or remain as you were would be a big help.
If the marines are pushing towards the hive there is generally not enough time to wait to evolve to higher life-forms. You either rush out as a skulk, and die, or try to evolve and get egg-killed while you're helpless.
It's an interesting experiment, certainly, but I hope they'll either remove it or make it optional for the next release. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Everyone suggesting a vote after death or that higher lifeforms should spawn doesn't get the point of this change!
But i agree that the spawning skulks need something which protects them more form spawncamp. Maybe one can add an 1 second umbracloud to lower spawncamp by hmg e.g. ...and the GL...well...if the rines got so many GLs that they kill all spawning skulks, how have they killed the higher lifeforms???
Played this for a while on various servers, and I agree that spawning is horribly, horribly broken. How this could have gone unnoticed is beyond me, but the possiblity that it's intentional is even worse.
Specifically, spawn times increase dramatically with the number of dead players. But only 5 spawn.
This means that if there are less than 4 dead players, spawn times are relatively nonexistant and are roughly equivalent to cheesy's. But if there are more than 5 dead players, spawn times increase very rapidly. I was waiting upwards of 30 seconds to spawn on NSArmslab's 32 player CO server. I'll try to remember to time it more precisely later.
This means spawncamping is horribly efficient, since the 5 players that spawn usually cannot kill more than 5 enemies. The 5 players go back in the losing spawn queue with the 30 second wavespawn, while their <5 enemies spawn almost immediately, and run over to spawncamp some more. So, if ever the entire team is dead, gg.
<!--QuoteBegin-InquisitiveIdiot+Sep 9 2004, 08:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (InquisitiveIdiot @ Sep 9 2004, 08:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, if ever the entire team is dead, gg.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that in fact, the whole point?
So far on two servers that I play on... (Very good servers and I'm not going to mention them here cos I don't want noobs ruining them) CO games have lasted the full 30mins/35mins that the servers runs them for.
Now this in my mind with the high quality players that play on these servers means that CO has now been perfectly balanced. I have so far, since the release of the patch experianced ONE CO game that has lasted anything shorter than 10mins and thats because no one on the alien team gorged and so the high was constantly attacked and never healed.
I understand the benefits of this system but the unbalance far outweighs the improvements added. They really should:
-Give Higher Lifeforms a "devolve" option that refunds their points and returns them to a skulk (with their upgrades intact)
-make skulk spawning an OPTION configurable by admins of the servers
-allow players to choose "devolve" only when dead
-make eggs invulnerable
-penalize marines for dying!!!
-make spawning as a skulk a 10% chance on death, which also can happen automatically if the player presses "key here" or uses "console command here"
-make wave spawn go up in increments depending on the amount of players in the server
-make it so that YOU SHOULDN'T BE PENALIZED FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S DEATHS! I hate waiting 2 minutes to spawn while other players hurl themselves to their deaths further lengthening the time before I respawn. I agree waiting for spawning depending on how many people die but if people die and you were waiting from before they should have to wait until after your wave spawns to respawn themselves. It should go:
1st Priority: Players who have waited the longest (died long ago) 2nd Priority: Players who have not died in the past 40 seconds 3rd Priority: Players who have died multiple times within 40 seconds
Two seconds of spawn invul on some servers is in, and it really seems to help.
Additionally, changing the arbitrary number of 'five peopel spawn at once' to a better solution such as 'n people spawn at once' where n is based on the number of people in the server, would also help.
EXAMPLE:
Suppose the NS team believes that 5 is the perfect number for 'people that spawn at once', when there are 14 players in the game. (7 a side). This is 5/7ths of a team spawning in at once, about 70%.
The perfect number for when there are 28 people in the game (14 a side) would be the same ratio: 70% -> 10 at once. For 4vs4 games? 3 at once. 10vs10? 7 at once.
See? It makes MORE SENSE to have scaling numbers in a game where the NUMBER OF PLAYERS scales. This same thinking can be applied to how long to delay for each additional dead, since in a 24 player game (For example), a lot more people can be dead and not spawning, and thus the spawn wait can be MUCH longer. In a 5 player game currently, the longest spawn wait is just the one wave wait. Currently in a 32 player game, the longest spawn wait can be SEVERAL MINUTES LONG.
Now, before some people come in here with their bs about 'its supposed to be made for small games!' ... Thats a cop out. It can be made to work for large games by scaling the numbers appropriately. Just do the math. Currently it doesnt work for big games BECAUSE THEY FIX THE NUMBERS.
you respawn as the life form you died like in beta 4. But you can regestate to a lower lifeform. if you are fade onos costs 1 point. lerk -1, gorg -2, and skulk -3. if you are lerk: skulk -2, gorge -1, fade, +1, and onos +2.
Thats the easiest way to combine good old and new stuff. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only problem would be you always can regestate. But this isnt a big problem...I dont know why sb. should do that ^^
Comments
Alternatively, instead of allowing everyone to respawn as skulks, why don't add a "de-evolve" option that allows you to revert to the vanilla skulk and get all your points back. It fixes the grenade spawncamping problem without compromising versatility.
Let's play it before we trash it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it takes longer now to evolve :>
A group of mixed aliens spawning back in could often repel a marine advance. A group of skulks and eggs is no use at all and the marines just walk all over you.
The idea mentioned earlier of giving you an option while waiting to spawn to either go back to skulk or remain as you were would be a big help.
If the marines are pushing towards the hive there is generally not enough time to wait to evolve to higher life-forms. You either rush out as a skulk, and die, or try to evolve and get egg-killed while you're helpless.
It's an interesting experiment, certainly, but I hope they'll either remove it or make it optional for the next release. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But i agree that the spawning skulks need something which protects them more form spawncamp.
Maybe one can add an 1 second umbracloud to lower spawncamp by hmg e.g.
...and the GL...well...if the rines got so many GLs that they kill all spawning skulks, how have they killed the higher lifeforms???
Specifically, spawn times increase dramatically with the number of dead players. But only 5 spawn.
This means that if there are less than 4 dead players, spawn times are relatively nonexistant and are roughly equivalent to cheesy's. But if there are more than 5 dead players, spawn times increase very rapidly. I was waiting upwards of 30 seconds to spawn on NSArmslab's 32 player CO server. I'll try to remember to time it more precisely later.
This means spawncamping is horribly efficient, since the 5 players that spawn usually cannot kill more than 5 enemies. The 5 players go back in the losing spawn queue with the 30 second wavespawn, while their <5 enemies spawn almost immediately, and run over to spawncamp some more. So, if ever the entire team is dead, gg.
Isn't that a good thing? Isn't that in fact, the whole point?
Now this in my mind with the high quality players that play on these servers means that CO has now been perfectly balanced. I have so far, since the release of the patch experianced ONE CO game that has lasted anything shorter than 10mins and thats because no one on the alien team gorged and so the high was constantly attacked and never healed.
-Give Higher Lifeforms a "devolve" option that refunds their points and returns them to a skulk (with their upgrades intact)
-make skulk spawning an OPTION configurable by admins of the servers
-allow players to choose "devolve" only when dead
-make eggs invulnerable
-penalize marines for dying!!!
-make spawning as a skulk a 10% chance on death, which also can happen automatically if the player presses "key here" or uses "console command here"
-make wave spawn go up in increments depending on the amount of players in the server
-make it so that YOU SHOULDN'T BE PENALIZED FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S DEATHS! I hate waiting 2 minutes to spawn while other players hurl themselves to their deaths further lengthening the time before I respawn. I agree waiting for spawning depending on how many people die but if people die and you were waiting from before they should have to wait until after your wave spawns to respawn themselves. It should go:
1st Priority: Players who have waited the longest (died long ago)
2nd Priority: Players who have not died in the past 40 seconds
3rd Priority: Players who have died multiple times within 40 seconds
Additionally, changing the arbitrary number of 'five peopel spawn at once' to a better solution such as 'n people spawn at once' where n is based on the number of people in the server, would also help.
EXAMPLE:
Suppose the NS team believes that 5 is the perfect number for 'people that spawn at once', when there are 14 players in the game. (7 a side). This is 5/7ths of a team spawning in at once, about 70%.
The perfect number for when there are 28 people in the game (14 a side) would be the same ratio: 70% -> 10 at once.
For 4vs4 games? 3 at once. 10vs10? 7 at once.
See? It makes MORE SENSE to have scaling numbers in a game where the NUMBER OF PLAYERS scales. This same thinking can be applied to how long to delay for each additional dead, since in a 24 player game (For example), a lot more people can be dead and not spawning, and thus the spawn wait can be MUCH longer. In a 5 player game currently, the longest spawn wait is just the one wave wait. Currently in a 32 player game, the longest spawn wait can be SEVERAL MINUTES LONG.
Now, before some people come in here with their bs about 'its supposed to be made for small games!' ... Thats a cop out. It can be made to work for large games by scaling the numbers appropriately. Just do the math. Currently it doesnt work for big games BECAUSE THEY FIX THE NUMBERS.
you respawn as the life form you died like in beta 4.
But you can regestate to a lower lifeform. if you are fade onos costs 1 point. lerk -1, gorg -2, and skulk -3. if you are lerk: skulk -2, gorge -1, fade, +1, and onos +2.
Thats the easiest way to combine good old and new stuff. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only problem would be you always can regestate. But this isnt a big problem...I dont know why sb. should do that ^^