Co_sava Feedback Thread
Mendasp
I touch maps in inappropriate placesValencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
I touch maps in inappropriate placesValencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
After one day of b5 I've heard a lot of things about the map, and since I like to hear what everyone thinks my maps need (hey, I want to keep the public happy!) I'm starting this thread to know any problems with the map...
This is what I want to do / know what you think about it
- Adding two vents that lead into past half of the map (with several exits)
- Making the Nanopanels room smaller (the one with the res nodes) and add some kind of cover (let's see if I can come up with something that doesn't involve crates)
- Adding cover in elevator access (the other room outside the hive), probably with architecture in the center of the room and some supports near the entrance to the hive.
- Fixing stuck issues in the hive / Remove half of the catwalk (the broken platform)
- A lot more cover in the central part of the map (door frames will work pretty well here)
- Auxiliar monitoring doesn't need changes, does it?
- Not sure, do you guys think I should add some cover in the upper area on Cargo?
Comments?
This is what I want to do / know what you think about it
- Adding two vents that lead into past half of the map (with several exits)
- Making the Nanopanels room smaller (the one with the res nodes) and add some kind of cover (let's see if I can come up with something that doesn't involve crates)
- Adding cover in elevator access (the other room outside the hive), probably with architecture in the center of the room and some supports near the entrance to the hive.
- Fixing stuck issues in the hive / Remove half of the catwalk (the broken platform)
- A lot more cover in the central part of the map (door frames will work pretty well here)
- Auxiliar monitoring doesn't need changes, does it?
- Not sure, do you guys think I should add some cover in the upper area on Cargo?
Comments?
Comments
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
well, alright ill say something else too, kind of hard to say actually, havent had the change to play the map with equal teams yet.. :I
I don't think 2 vents will cut it. It might be CO, but who knows how many people will play it? I'd probably say 3-4 vents or something but that might be pushing it)
As for the particles used in the air vents....they're nice, but they really eat a LOT of FPS. Pretty hard to manuever around when you suddenly get bogged down to 9 FPS or so (Newer generation cards won't have problems, but us with lower-end cards would like to play too you know <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
I'll play through the map again, and I'll try to get some feedback for you from some other players <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the particles used in the air vents....they're nice, but they really eat a LOT of FPS. Pretty hard to manuever around when you suddenly get bogged down to 9 FPS or so (Newer generation cards won't have problems, but us with lower-end cards would like to play too you know <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I learnt about the cover thing the hard way (ie. when everyone complained about it, heh)
As for the vents, I meant, two in the hive, that lead to several rooms so it's like... 2 entrances to the hive and like... 4-6 exits (maybe less, we'll see) everything would be connected.
And, the particles, if you disable high detail particles in the customization menu they should be gone (I think, and if they don't, they will in beta 6).
- Alien hive room needs to be lowered or move the hive to a corner since JPs wreak havoc in that room.
- Either change the long hallways or add obstructions in them (like crates or wall outcrops).
TBH the upper ramp, left out of rine start, seems a bit superfluous. Alien start is okay, is about as good/bad as in b1, but I am a bit disappointed with the "finished" version when I compare it to b1.
Gets good marks on "looks" tho, 'tis nicely made.
Oh, and I keep seeing marines get owned but two onos'. but I think that might be cause most newbies seem to go rine as it is "easier".
More vents would be a huge help. The most dangerous place to be a skulk is probably the skinny, upward slanted hallway that is out the left door (looking from the chair) and then another left. The marines don't even need to aim there, and there aren't any good ways of going around it.
Any chance you could move the armory a bit further from the doors?
The ramps in the hive room are a bit challening to navigate. Could you make it easier for a skulk to climb the wall by the hive and get on them, rather than take the ramp itself?
I'm happy with the access around the map as it is, if you think ahead you can get plenty of good shots at marines as an alien. As a marine, you're not to claustrophobic with a jp, and although there are many ambush points I don't feel like you're forced to walk into any deathtraps.
Great map!
The downsides of this map have mostly been mentioned. The hive is pretty rough for aliens... I end up feeling like it's easier for the marines to get around in there than the aliens, especially but not only when they have jetpacks. As a fade I was trying to stop a jp'er in the hive and could barely blink around the hive, I kept bumping into things. Meanwhile the jper soared easily around, alighted on little ledges that I would fall off, got on top of the hive that I had to aim just right to squeeze into, etc.
Meanwhile, everyone spawns as a skulk and that hive is a killfest. You're easily visible wherever you spawn. A marine at the top of each ramp and one on the floor = death. Even with a marine in only one of these positions 2-3 skulks would get wasted per wave. And I won't even mention what gls do in there, since that happens on pretty much any CO map now. I know, I know. Don't let them into your hive. Look, I told them no and they came in anyway. And they ate all my cookies.
On a "good for aliens" note, this was a fun one for lerks. I found it pretty easy to keep the marine spawn full of gas in relative safety. That long straight shot on the left (from the perspective of the hive) was one reason for this, but the multiple indirect approaches with connecting vents helped a lot too.
Hope that's helpful.
The 'low rails' room outside MS is death for an Onos, and seems to be very Marine friendly.
- Marines can't shoot the hive from the hive entrances (they have to get inside the hive to do that)
- Removed half of the broken walkway
- Raised Hive (you can't get on top, couldn't find a more elegant way to fix it without making the hive very exposed)
- Added two vents in the hive (one leads to Water Containment and the other one leads to the existing vent)
- Fixed sticky walls in the vents (yes, you can wallstrafe now)
- Added cover in the hive (little alcoves with computers / sunken crate)
- Added cover in one of the hive corridors (not the dark one)
- Added cover in the central area (crates / door frame)
- Added cover in Elevator Access (pipes in the center of the room)
- Added a little bit of cover in Auxiliar Monitoring (not much, but it will help skulks/gorges)
- Moved crate in Nanotech panels to offer some cover
I will probably add a little alcove for the CC too, so the skulks that get there can cover themselves behind the CC itself. The map right now it's a bit cratetastic, it's sad, I never liked crates too much :S
No pics as of yet, since I'm still working on the map and I don't want to show anything that's probably going to be changed <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm looking forward to the next version. Just don't do too many changes at once <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
From Alien perspective, the left entrance of marine spawn is way too open and doesn't allow the Onos to retreat effectively.
The right entrance of marine spawn has these really really funky rails that just LOVE to block Onos movement. It takes 100% mental activity just to navigate through there, let alone trying to evade fire and kill at the same time.
And the level causes more FPS drops than it needs to for something so small.
Disable High-detail particles (Options -> Multiplayer -> Advanced), if you still get FPS drops, it's your own fault.
Disable High-detail particles (Options -> Multiplayer -> Advanced), if you still get FPS drops, it's your own fault. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Love the cruelty <3
GJ on the changes, cant wait to see it myself.
Disable High-detail particles (Options -> Multiplayer -> Advanced), if you still get FPS drops, it's your own fault. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Love the cruelty <3
GJ on the changes, cant wait to see it myself. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It could be worse, I haven't said I didn't change marine's half of the map at all, oh, oops! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PS: In case you were wondering, in all the games I've played, when you get past the north/south central access area the aliens have no problem reaching the MS, not even the onos (through the cargo bay).
I consider the map ready for Beta 6 atm, so I'll start work on bast soon.
-- It's a giant water refinery or something, let's have some broken tanks and infestation abouts! Water on the floor, things like that.
-- Tired of crates? You have those nice-looking water 'capsules' on the right side (which no one seems to go through, oddly enough..) that could fill some space if scattered about.
-- Need another vent? How about something inside the hive room that leads outside? This way, the aliens would have a chance of getting behind and "sneak-attacking" the Marines coming towards their hive.
-- A problem with the original Sava was the huge rooms and long hallways, which for the most part remain the same (except that Refinery-sized monstrosity at the middle of the map has been remade into pieces, thank God. That was murder on skulks.) Broken support beams and columns could break up monotony, forcing Skulks to skitter around (while still partially concealed due to their height) and get those marines jumping. Slanted plates against the wall, large enough for skulks and marines to crouch through are always good, as well. You know you love that little plate on Eclipse.
-- More water!@ FTW!111!eight
-- Tired of crates? You have those nice-looking water 'capsules' on the right side (which no one seems to go through, oddly enough..) that could fill some space if scattered about.
-- Need another vent? How about something inside the hive room that leads outside? This way, the aliens would have a chance of getting behind and "sneak-attacking" the Marines coming towards their hive.
-- A problem with the original Sava was the huge rooms and long hallways, which for the most part remain the same (except that Refinery-sized monstrosity at the middle of the map has been remade into pieces, thank God. That was murder on skulks.) Broken support beams and columns could break up monotony, forcing Skulks to skitter around (while still partially concealed due to their height) and get those marines jumping. Slanted plates against the wall, large enough for skulks and marines to crouch through are always good, as well. You know you love that little plate on Eclipse.
-- More water!@ FTW!111!eight <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.- As much as I'd like to do this, the water on the floor isn't as easy, it wouldn't sound like water, at all, because I'm using an animated texture.
2.- Ohh, this is a nice idea, we'll playtest the map as-is with the crates and then I'll see if I can add some of these.
3.- There are two of them already in the hive (one of them has two exits), I think I mentioned it in the changelog, not sure <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
4.- <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Nice to know you played the first public version <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Right now I don't have planned any changes like this, maybe for another version.
5.- Heh.
First of all, in a game on this map as an onos, i used the crouch button more than the foward button (How?). Second of all, you can't join "random team" as an onos in the readyroom because of the blocky box being too big for the center to enter the random team box border, when you float up, so you just stick to the roof.
I believe the most onos problems occured walking down slopes, the roofs was too low.
Aliens win 3/5 when I played as them, won 3/3 marine games when I played marine however.
The map looks really nice, although adding a lot of doorways in would just make it terrible to play as onos, on the right hand of marine spawn you need an alternate entrance (maybe from center map?) because Onos gets killed before coming halfway to the spawn. Also utilizing that lower area would be better, if there was a vent in to that from somewhere.
I think you could still use one or two non-directional ambient stereo mp3 sounds set to loop over a large area. Pulse, Faceoff, and Angst do this well, while other co maps like Core, Kestrel, and Rebirth are too silent.
I recommend a control room-style mp3 for the marine start and an eerie grotesque mp3 for the alien hive.
Message me anytime if you need some more sounds.
I think you could still use one or two non-directional ambient stereo mp3 sounds set to loop over a large area. Pulse, Faceoff, and Angst do this well, while other co maps like Core, Kestrel, and Rebirth are too silent.
I recommend a control room-style mp3 for the marine start and an eerie grotesque mp3 for the alien hive.
Message me anytime if you need some more sounds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh my go.... NO! Dont do that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I so hate those sounds..
oh my go.... NO! Dont do that
I so hate those sounds..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Huh? I don't mean the defaults.
btw, I increased the brightness for the people that have problems with it, it doesn't look washed out or anything, it's just brighter, if it doesn't work, I can change it again anyways <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I will fix the random join team problem for the onos, but I don't know of any other problems except for Aux monitoring, which is fixed already, so... if you don't tell me which ones you're talking about I won't be able to fix it.