The New Ns-bast

reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Why, dear god why!?</div> Why couldn't you guys just leave bast alone? I thought it was perfect the way it was.

Now it's missing the revolving door, that little sprite was like a kick in the jaw!
The marine spawn is to close to the engine hive, the elevator is gone, everything just connects too easily! It's horrible.

Well I know no one cares what I think, but what do you guys think?


  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    I fully expect Mr.Ben and Mentsap (I can't remember how to spell your name <!--emo&:(--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> sorry) to come here and defend themselfs, as I really don't think the discussion on this topic in the mapping forum has been adequate either way. Just so you all know I could really care less either way as I don't really enjoy playing bast as it stands anyways, I would just like to see some more reasonable back and forth discussion then there has been in the past, and this is as good a place as any for it to happen.
  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    lol reasa you always assume no one cares about your thoughts.

    I personally think that the change is a step in the right way of fixing some thing like Engine being the 'OMGWTHBBQ LEWSE GG' hive. well, it still is anyway XD

    Of course, sometimes you'll have to give up some of the most important/eyecatching features like the revolving door. I'll miss getting worldspawn'd by it XD

    But as for the elevator in MS being removed, I like the change honestly. Oni won't have to go through the trouble of climbing up a ladder while marines are raining HMG bullets down like there's no tomorrow <!--emo&:)--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    So yeah, I like it , but only a slight bit more. Just needs a bit more fixing, like Refiner Hive for instance. ATM it's a free jetpack rush <!--emo&:(--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2004
    I only have two real complaints with bast right now, though I haven't played the new one very much. First, the Engine hive is much too close to marine start(it takes, what, 10-15 seconds to walk there?). The removal of the Main Aft bottleneck is an improvement, but one of the marine "proximity" nodes shouldn't be a hive area... And second, Refinery is still pointlessly huge. With the JP improvements this build, nothing but an extremely thorough OC defense can even put a dent in a JP rush in Refinery.
  • exoityexoity Join Date: 2003-03-17 Member: 14620Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Well this might come to some usefull information -

    Ref to Engine = 13 seconds
    Ref to Feedwater = 20
    Feedwater to Engine= 30 seconds (if you take vents)

    I took these calculations when running at full speed in a pt a few weeks ago.
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    Ya and the revolving door isn't gone <!--emo&:D--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited September 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Sep 4 2004, 11:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Sep 4 2004, 11:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...nothing but an extremely thorough OC defense can even put a dent in a JP rush in Refinery. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Or battle lorks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    On a serious note, another room between MS and engine would fix the issue.
  • project_demonproject_demon Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18103Members
    i duno... the change made it easier/faster for marines to get to diff places fast...
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    yea what rave said,

    Ill surely miss the revolving door and the elevator, I remember going down as a scared little marine for the first time in my second game of NS lol in v1.

    But hey, Now that its more accessible only makes it more balanced in my opinion for the aliens., especially when you take into account the huge open/vulnerable Refinery.

    But yea a little distance separating marine start and engine might seem like a new issue. But Ill wait until Ive played the revised map a few more times before I make a definite stand on it.
  • SopsSops Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17894Members, Constellation
    Bast was the first NS map I ever played :'(
    I liked it the way it was
  • MistenTHMistenTH Join Date: 2003-01-01 Member: 11706Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Removal of the lift and revolving door imo makes it more balancing for marines, allowing them faster initial movement to strike out.

    The door and lift simply slowed marines down too much, and made newbies just want to stay in MS.
  • BryBry Join Date: 2003-01-23 Member: 12609Members
    the new chanegs to basta re imho horrible im sorry but they jsut are. It's lost almsot everything that made it unique and fun. I've already installed the beta4 version on my server (ns_bast2). I just don't understand why these changes were made, its no longer bast now imo and should be renamed <!--emo&:(--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Balance > Atmophere. Who cares how it looks, ns_bast was by far the most unbalanced and unplayable map in the game. Mendasp and Co rebuilt it so that maybe it will be playable in competitive play with some more changes. Who cares if "the lift was cool", it along with the elevator made MS impossible to leave as marines, yet impossible to enter as aliens. Well, you could enter, but you damn well wouldn't get out alive. It was terribly made in terms of balance, and it was corrected. Kudos to Mendasp and the rest of the team for understanding what needed to be done, ignore the naysayers.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    meh <!--emo&:p--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> scannersweep is your friend

    but those who want older basts will play older basts and those that dont wont give a toss, provided of course you have sufficient people to do so :S
  • WolvWolv Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 56Members
    I agree that the removal of all intersting features of this map made it better for clanplay and "balance" (that word actually almost seems like a swearword by now). But as Cpl.Davis explained so effectively, it's these features that set Bast apart from the other maps and make for a much more "fun" gaming experience.
    Can't we just have one map that is recocgnised as being unfit for clanplay (not "balanced") but very atmospheric and creepy ("fun").
  • bliNkbliNk Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21422Members
    edited September 2004
    It has changed <i>too</i> much now. I barely recognised it.

    Is this a good thing? I don't think so, but time will tell.
  • WitherWither A Bugged Life Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11513Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    I'm glad we're all being so <a href='' target='_blank'>constructive</a> and giving
    <a href='' target='_blank'>feedback </a>so that Mendasp can <a href='' target='_blank'>improve</a> it for B6.

    Oh wait, there's already a <a href='' target='_blank'>thread</a> for that.

    (Did you get the hint?)
  • coriscoris Join Date: 2003-07-08 Member: 18034Members, Constellation
    The new bast owns, much better gameplay and better strategys! GJ Mendasp and Mrben!
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    Yup, I have a thread for feedback <a href='' target='_blank'>here</a>.

    Anyways, you say it has changed A LOT (wow, you barely recognize it), well, if adding another exit to engine and the new route is A LOT, then yes, but that's not even 1/4th of the map (MS -> Engine and the rest are bugfixes or little changes).

    I know I can't make everyone happy, specially with a conflictive map like bast which is a love/hate thing... but I tried, can't you guys understand that?
  • tankefugltankefugl One Script To Rule Them All... Trondheim, Norway Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    *pats mendasp*

    I for one think the changes was a huge improvement.
  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation
    As soon as the engine thingy is fixed, I'll be fine with the new bast.
  • Axel_StoneAxel_Stone Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18993Members, Constellation
    Should be called CO-NS_Bast...
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    Can we at least get a door, or some type of barrier between marine spawn and engine.....preferably a large think wall with a vent at the top....

    <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> [|||||||||||||||} <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> -<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>hypothetical betterment using a detailed graph and actual map making tools.</span>
  • bliNkbliNk Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21422Members
    I had to laugh when I saw that huge opening in the MS. Skulk rushes here we come.
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    I like the vent going out of the top of feedwater, much easier to drop down on rines sieging the hive from tram.
  • Firestorm2Firestorm2 Join Date: 2004-08-09 Member: 30473Members
    I have yet to open my old fave, but the revolving door does seem rather.. incredibly ridiculous.

    It's an AIRLOCK. The other side HAS NO SHIP. I'm too tired to argue this eloquently, because I get a sense that there will be dumbasses who think this makes sense

    Gameplay reasons are not enough, Bast = beauty and atmosphere, not a combat map
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    old bast.

    So damn it if it was not balanced. WE KNEW it wasn't balanced when we started bast. We have a build in votemap if we don't like it. And ppl who do like it could play bast. It was beautifull.
  • JimBowenJimBowen Join Date: 2003-05-30 Member: 16873Members, Constellation
    Bast will awalys be the my number 1 NS map. The lighting, atmosphere are fantastic, and ive alwalys likeed the gamplay too.
  • LichoLicho Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3858Members, NS1 Playtester
    I like the old bast more too, it was nicer... Revolving doors and elevator were simply part of the map, as well as 80% chance that marines try relocation to main aft or double :-)
    Old bast had only one slight problem - no vent between engine and refinery..
  • MrBenMrBen ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Members
    It's funny because pre v3 everyone hated those features. I love how suddenly when they're gone you all decided to have a little cry and whine about it.
  • Rush_Of_PeonsRush_Of_Peons Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13728Members
    RIP bast, ill miss u <!--emo&:(--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Ive yet to play it but i have heard quite alot. Bast may not of bee nthe best CLAN map but hey, for pug wars and lms' it ROCKED! Im gonna keep my old one, hopefully you can find it in ur hearts to restore some of the charm and unique features that made bast...well fun. The clan wars that i played on bast were fun, challenging and awesome, some of the best matches i played were on bast.

    <3 u bast, ill never forget <!--emo&:(--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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