The New Knife
Sapphire_Rawk
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26111Members
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26111Members
Comments
I haven't had a chance to play B5 yet but I can only think that this is gonna make it real easy to pin an onos or fade into your base for some good old teamshooting. I can't wait to try.
Interesting, considering that the B5 changelist lists a major decrease in KB...
I'd blame the playtesters, not the devs. An error in code is nearly impossible to find if you don't know its there. If this is a legitimate bug it should have been found in PT ages ago. I just hope that major bugs like this get picked up and fixed right away before they distroy the balace of the game and people end up leaving in response to lack of fun...
I'd blame the playtesters, not the devs. An error in code is nearly impossible to find if you don't know its there. If this is a legitimate bug it should have been found in PT ages ago. I just hope that major bugs like this get picked up and fixed right away before they distroy the balace of the game and people end up leaving in response to lack of fun... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, we discovered that bug back around rc3 when alien knockback was fixed, and it was never repaired. I have no idea why. Next time, please do not assume you know everything, okay?
I'd blame the playtesters, not the devs. An error in code is nearly impossible to find if you don't know its there. If this is a legitimate bug it should have been found in PT ages ago. I just hope that major bugs like this get picked up and fixed right away before they distroy the balace of the game and people end up leaving in response to lack of fun... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, we discovered that bug back around rc3 when alien knockback was fixed, and it was never repaired. I have no idea why. Next time, please do not assume you know everything, okay? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry Red, I guess assuming really does make an **** out of me and you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just for clarity, what is the acctual bug? It seems a little negligent to me to claim that KB has been reduced and then acctually increase it. Is it just an issue with the knife or does it affect all melee attacks as it seems to say here?
what your experiancing: 'friction simulation'
Explanation/Example(s):
ok, so you get hit with the knife straight on, to the chest (as a marine... just to make things easier). you react by jumping back, say.. 1-2 steps... that's all good and dandy...
now imagine you were on the top of a ledge, and someone hits you with that knife again, on your feet... you jump back with the exact same force, but in a diagonal direction... away from the ground.
the half life engine calculates that you leave the ground, and therefore you no longer are affected by friction, and since this is a game, no friction meand if you jumped with the same force, you friggin fly.
1-2 steps on the ground... is 1-2 steps.... 1-2 steps in the air is more like 10-15 steps on the ground so it's not a bug per se... it's just not being affected by friction/gravity the way you would normally expect.
sorry for the ramble, but it's begged me before, and that's how i came to grip on the explanation.
(extra information: air speeds are capped ALOT higher than land speeds, so you can even move FASTER in the air than you can on the ground, hence bunnyhopping, jetpacks, and lerk flight speeds)
think it would be good to dispel the knockback talks and rumors. definitely the best explanation i've heard yet!
thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ground speeds are uncapped, it's just friction and the way velocity is added when you strafe that make it 'effectively capped', with sv_friction 0 you can comfortably scoot along at >2000 units per second(4 seconds to cross the maximum sized map)). If you 'glide' you get upwards of 1.5x class speed all while on the ground with normal friction(insane speeds with less friction(doesn't behave much like friction in HL, with no friction you can change directions instantly, but your horisontal speed is hard to stop)), if you strafe against a wall you can get upwards of 1.5x class speed.
At the moment you execute a jump your speed gets capped at 1.7x class speed, but while in the air the speed is capped at 3x class speed. These speed caps all refer to 'horisontal speed', they do not take vertical velocity into account when calculating the speed. There is also a speed cap for all objects which is 4000 units per second and refers to real speed( z-velocity included in calculation).
The <b>new knockback</b> was meant as a way to simulate the natural reaction to being bit, stabbed or what have you - you'd jump away as far as you can, away from your attacker. That isn't very far normally, after all you're being freaking stabbed. However, this effect is <i>constant</i> now, so every bite will trigger it.
Half-Life doesn't use some static number to determine how much your player is moved, but instead determines it from the force used in the push (the knockback in this case), and applies surface friction to it. So the same amount of force (or if we're to believe the changelog, 50% the amount) is used to knock you back while airborne, than if you'd been standing on the ground. The result is still a pretty large jump.
This is different from the previous version of knockback in a variety of ways :
Previously, it would move the target to the left and back of the attacker, meaning depending on positioning you could minimize that distance by circlestrafing around the left, and depending on your luck get 2-3 immediate bites. Seeing how its not hard to stand on the right side of a hallway though, and hence be immune until a Skulk manages to approach you from the back, the previous method was pretty silly though.
However, it also had the effect that <i>air knockback wasn't very large unless you were strafing right</i>. Because only if the directional bias of the knockback and targets movement overlapped could you get the really infamous air knockback - the standard knockback was as big if not smaller as the current one.
Just so noone is confused : I'm making the assumption the target is being bitten frontally here - which is when you'd want to be strafing right, because the knockbacks force will push you towards the attackers left, or your right. This all changes depending on angle of course.
Long story short : Knockback has become more wide-spread, but more predictable. Beh. Nowadays you just stand on an armory, a turret, a railing or anything and will get a large enough jump to make sure you don't get bit twice instantly. Kind of lame if I dare say so.
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<b>again, the following is what i've been lead to know... and i can't *really* prove it... so take that in mind.</b>
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as far as i've known, it's always been a problem... because the engine cannot calculate your proper friction... heres's a tech-ish eplanation of the what i have heard what's happening...
your speed is calculated by two things...
1: forward/backward/up/down speeds: this is coded in for each player, mostly a 'maximum speed can you move'
2: what hull you collide with.... technically speaking, there is no 'hull' once you leave the floor, so the collision between you and 'the hull' cannot be calculated.
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now, when you are no longer in contact with 'the hull' your movements can only be judged by the 'max speed one can travel' meathod. think about a lerk in flight with celerity... if that's how fast a marine can travel once he leaves the ground you can move places REAL fast.
ok, so just think of zero gravity.... you push something with enough force to move is 2 incehs on earth, in 0G... it'll move like 500 Feet...
in-game, not being calculated to collide with a hull (walls/floors) you are in 0 gravity. hence... knockback that pushed you a few steps when you were on the ground, now flys you across the room once you leave the ground.
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i playtest another game, their problem was that grenades give blast damage (and move you when they do) what their problem was, you could grenade a teamate (it doesn't hurt them) and that teamate would still be affected by the blast pushing... and they would do a giant jump ontop of things they shouldn't be getting atop of.
to solve their problem, they decreased the 'max movement speed' to something really low... now instead of getting ontop of buildings, you can only get ontop of boxes you shouldn't be able to. their problem was solved by tweaking the first calculation for speed.
Since NS has the lerk + celerity... the 'speed your able to move' is super high, and they cannot lower it for the marines, without totally defeathing the lerk as a viable alien lifeform. (imagine a lerk that can't move faster than a marine)
ok, i think i covered what i understood well enough to have you understand... if not, i'll check back in about 12 hours...
yes very much indeed, thanks!
btw, Onos juggling= roffles, thats just funny.
I was gorging around I ended up being knife juggled earlier today. wow what a confusing expirience when it first happens to you now that its so pronounced. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ooh 3,000th post.
But...wait, isn't that for the player to do - jump away I mean - not for the game to decide?
But...wait, isn't that for the player to do - jump away I mean - not for the game to decide? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there's no knockback effect at all, when a skulk attacks you have no chance. He just bites a few times and you're dead. With some knockback, you still get pushed away slightly and have a chance to shoot back before you die. The idea is to balance it so that you still have SOME chance, but not so that you get knocked halfway down the hall and can kill the attacking skulk at your leisure. (which is still happening from time to time in beta 5)
I'm still wondering why xp-cagey's 1/10th knockback was pulled in favor of this 1/2 knockback. Which, as Saltz mentioned, isn't as terrible, but seems to happen a lot more consistently now. 50% of a 20 foot knockback is still enough time to kill a skulk easily.