Teamwork Methods
ZiGGY
Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
<div class="IPBDescription">oh no its theory it must be false!</div>First of all I will say this:
If you do not consider skill as a factor (for example in a non stacked public game) then communication is necessary for teamwork to occur (if your really bothered Ill show you the argument for it, it is flawed but I had no reason to finalise it[note: my notes have been deleted it may take a while to rewrite such an argument]).
communication in this case is talking and listening to your team :/
So for a marines this isnt an issue simply because there is already an established heirarchy.
But in aliens its a different ballgame. (note: its NOT marbles)
So the question is:
Can we make a system where through communication the aliens can operate as a team?
And the answer is obviously yes, if you ever play any pugs/gathers youll probably notice the extreme lack of attention to detail of strategy for most random teams, they would much prefer to go with a 2fade/hive/dcs/perm gorg/rt-lerk person set up, now this is a particularly ugly approach generally because 1. its about as flexible as a dead elephant and 2. people will be fighting over who gets to do what, and later on who needs to do what.
It could be argued that these flaws can be rhemedied with an authoritative figure leading the team, however in practice Ive found that most experienced players want to *be* said authoritative figure and most of said players having conflicting opinions as to what should be done.
so yeah we can do it, but can we make one wed wish to use and/or one that works?
This is where you come in!
I want to see if, with a strong admin presence to enforce and enourage temwork, and a suitable method to play as aliens(more on that later), it is possible(and I truly believe it is) to have a playable public game where everyone works as a team.
woah big dream eh? well, if we assume that:
for people to work as a team (where skill isnt considered a factor) then there must be communication, ie people are talking and listening in an appropriate way.
and as such we can admin people who: [for admin purposes appropriate is very vague and open for abuse, so a more general absolute "way" is used such as "never"]
1. Dont listen to their teammates in an appropriate way.
2. Dont talk to their teamm8s in an appropriate way.
[Note: Those of you who remember warservers when teflon aka [LoG]cookymonster was an admin, though he was bad when he was drunk his main ruleset for banning people was: people with an attitude that might hinder the game, people who werent really playing with the team = perm ban]
<b>Important point here:</b>
However communication alone will most certainly not allow you to win games, and as such a method to play alien games is needed for easy organisation and to allow newer players to get into the game without being too confused as to what they are expected to do.
Requirements:
An "average" public game size is an 8v8, not 6v6, keep that in mind.
Must be easily remembered so that it can become second nature to everyone, or "normal".
Should preferably be flexible enough to provide diversity in games so as to not become boring, and most certainly not be too rigid as to be easily countered... every game.
Should preferably have no leader as to prevent ego-clashing, if ego-clashing can be prevented with a leader this method is acceptable. :/
Perferably there are no "boring jobs" that people would not voluntarily wish to do.
It must be at least semi-viable as to allow the aliens to get to tier2 without a lot of luck.
<b>If you can create such a system, that I consider to be worth a try then I have a server, I have admins, we will try them out but we would also need people willing to participate in such tests, so if youre interested in trying to get some teamwork in your public games come help us try and find an answer!</b>
We cannot just simply sit on our **** and say "that wouldnt work" or "its impossible", when you have a system that could work, players willing to use it and admins willing to make sure people do so then how can there not be a chance to get some teamwork in our games! You may believe that since the days of 1.0 the diversity of the game has made it too complex for a public team to ever stand a chance of working together, I disagree! Surely if you get some experienced players who understand the game, who understand the important things, surely they could come up with some sort of "general method" to atleast play decently on a public server?
Here are a few examples of systems: generalised by "voluntary role designation"
from TheHaven of last year, I tried implementing this, it showed promise but then my computer died and I moved to university leaving me absent for far too long, :/
during the countdown someone would type something along the lines of:
"ok guys we need, permrt guy, 2 rt guys, 3 people to save for necessary higher lifeforms and/or structures, 1 save for chambers, 1 save for hive"
"can you tell me what you guys are doing please"
and so on a first come first served basis youd get answers along the lines of:
"ill build an rt if you need me to"
"im going fade"
etc etc
[digress]
In general this took about a minute for everyone to respond, but this was whilst it was new and it was in a trial period, some games would end where Id ban half the team within the first 2 minutes because even if they couldnt understand or hear me that very fact would be considered an act of hindering communication[its harsh like that, but asking to be unbanned would be a good demonstration that you are capable of teamwork and so you can get unbanned and warned :P] :P.
[/digress]
With this stage of the game sorted most people would then be free to do what they wanted, provided they told everyone else making them give a reason for doing what theyre doing :P
eg.
"im going to hunt down RTs, they have too many"
which naturally leads to "idle players x,y can you meet me here quick, they have a pg at main aft junction but it is lightly defended"
"im going to defend tram tunnel, its a key choke point"
etc etc
which naturally leads to "need help at tram tunnel!"
followed if necessary by "need help urgently at tram tunnel idle playes x,y,z, help please!"
Telling your team that the enemy has HMGs/Jps/candy bars is always a very common thing seen in publics, but if you added: need lerk or whatever and people were listening to you youd be surprised how often youd get a reply :P
this may sound impractical in a game situation but 1. most people do this anyway over voicecomms in the form of "OH NOES THEYRE COMING STRAIGHT TO OUR HIVE GET HERE NOW OR WE LOOSE!" so its a matter of streaming it to be as helpful as it can without being annoying or disruptive.
With this little ditty you have: a basic gameplan, people telling other people of problems and actively doing things depending on experience(and offers a great opportunity to learn what to do if youre playing with experienced players).
Another example of voluntary role designation would be to split the team into attack-gorges-defense. With so many players in each,
the attack(scout/attack) groups main focus being:
to make sure marines are parasited and/or contained
to keep the marine expansion to a minimum, ie kill their rts when they arent there
to probe the marine defenses(perferably without dying) finding a weakspot and exploiting it (eg wealky/un-defended rts, weakly/un-defended base
when necessary will invest their res for primarily: the purpose of attacking
but may be required to spend res to defend,(most alien units can do both)
may also be required to support the defend team if the marines are strong
the gorge(support/res) groups focus being:
to supplement the alien team by healspray support, building rts, supplemental chambers (eg ocs at chokepoints or a few dcs in a vent, whatever could be useful
the defense(defense/expansion) groups main focus being:
to make sure the marines are kept at bay from the rts and hive areas, or any area that could endanger them(within reason)
to set up ambushes against approaching (parasited) marines [this will be the case if the attack team does their job]
to expand the base(hives) and build the chambers
to build emergency defense when necessary (+ocs vs jps or with lerk vs LA, +lerks vs LA & JP, +fades vs with lerks, +onos vs HA: situational)
I havent tried this one, it is merely a simple example, I see it working as: once people have chosen their roles(first come first served) they are more or less isolated into smaller groups in non urgent situations, as the groups are so small, considering the small nature of these groups there will generally be either a leader-follower or a team situation. So hopefully they will coordinate their efforts (if one is willing the other will listen) And if the groups know their roles they should hopefully work together reasonably well.
Notice both these methods depend on the experience of the players, I do not think this to be too much of a problem as experienced players can set an example and hopefully others would learn, this reliance on experience is the key to the flexibility of the methods.
<b>Summary:</b>
Need people to come up with systems like these (depressingly long) quick examples.
Need people to sign up to help test these systems.
Need serious replies please :(
If all goes to plan we can have TEAMWORK PUBLIC GAMES!(!!)
Sadly the server I have is in England, but Im willing to admin abroad if you want me to oversee :/
Sorry for the long post, please do not skip this need feedback/contribution :'(
If you do not consider skill as a factor (for example in a non stacked public game) then communication is necessary for teamwork to occur (if your really bothered Ill show you the argument for it, it is flawed but I had no reason to finalise it[note: my notes have been deleted it may take a while to rewrite such an argument]).
communication in this case is talking and listening to your team :/
So for a marines this isnt an issue simply because there is already an established heirarchy.
But in aliens its a different ballgame. (note: its NOT marbles)
So the question is:
Can we make a system where through communication the aliens can operate as a team?
And the answer is obviously yes, if you ever play any pugs/gathers youll probably notice the extreme lack of attention to detail of strategy for most random teams, they would much prefer to go with a 2fade/hive/dcs/perm gorg/rt-lerk person set up, now this is a particularly ugly approach generally because 1. its about as flexible as a dead elephant and 2. people will be fighting over who gets to do what, and later on who needs to do what.
It could be argued that these flaws can be rhemedied with an authoritative figure leading the team, however in practice Ive found that most experienced players want to *be* said authoritative figure and most of said players having conflicting opinions as to what should be done.
so yeah we can do it, but can we make one wed wish to use and/or one that works?
This is where you come in!
I want to see if, with a strong admin presence to enforce and enourage temwork, and a suitable method to play as aliens(more on that later), it is possible(and I truly believe it is) to have a playable public game where everyone works as a team.
woah big dream eh? well, if we assume that:
for people to work as a team (where skill isnt considered a factor) then there must be communication, ie people are talking and listening in an appropriate way.
and as such we can admin people who: [for admin purposes appropriate is very vague and open for abuse, so a more general absolute "way" is used such as "never"]
1. Dont listen to their teammates in an appropriate way.
2. Dont talk to their teamm8s in an appropriate way.
[Note: Those of you who remember warservers when teflon aka [LoG]cookymonster was an admin, though he was bad when he was drunk his main ruleset for banning people was: people with an attitude that might hinder the game, people who werent really playing with the team = perm ban]
<b>Important point here:</b>
However communication alone will most certainly not allow you to win games, and as such a method to play alien games is needed for easy organisation and to allow newer players to get into the game without being too confused as to what they are expected to do.
Requirements:
An "average" public game size is an 8v8, not 6v6, keep that in mind.
Must be easily remembered so that it can become second nature to everyone, or "normal".
Should preferably be flexible enough to provide diversity in games so as to not become boring, and most certainly not be too rigid as to be easily countered... every game.
Should preferably have no leader as to prevent ego-clashing, if ego-clashing can be prevented with a leader this method is acceptable. :/
Perferably there are no "boring jobs" that people would not voluntarily wish to do.
It must be at least semi-viable as to allow the aliens to get to tier2 without a lot of luck.
<b>If you can create such a system, that I consider to be worth a try then I have a server, I have admins, we will try them out but we would also need people willing to participate in such tests, so if youre interested in trying to get some teamwork in your public games come help us try and find an answer!</b>
We cannot just simply sit on our **** and say "that wouldnt work" or "its impossible", when you have a system that could work, players willing to use it and admins willing to make sure people do so then how can there not be a chance to get some teamwork in our games! You may believe that since the days of 1.0 the diversity of the game has made it too complex for a public team to ever stand a chance of working together, I disagree! Surely if you get some experienced players who understand the game, who understand the important things, surely they could come up with some sort of "general method" to atleast play decently on a public server?
Here are a few examples of systems: generalised by "voluntary role designation"
from TheHaven of last year, I tried implementing this, it showed promise but then my computer died and I moved to university leaving me absent for far too long, :/
during the countdown someone would type something along the lines of:
"ok guys we need, permrt guy, 2 rt guys, 3 people to save for necessary higher lifeforms and/or structures, 1 save for chambers, 1 save for hive"
"can you tell me what you guys are doing please"
and so on a first come first served basis youd get answers along the lines of:
"ill build an rt if you need me to"
"im going fade"
etc etc
[digress]
In general this took about a minute for everyone to respond, but this was whilst it was new and it was in a trial period, some games would end where Id ban half the team within the first 2 minutes because even if they couldnt understand or hear me that very fact would be considered an act of hindering communication[its harsh like that, but asking to be unbanned would be a good demonstration that you are capable of teamwork and so you can get unbanned and warned :P] :P.
[/digress]
With this stage of the game sorted most people would then be free to do what they wanted, provided they told everyone else making them give a reason for doing what theyre doing :P
eg.
"im going to hunt down RTs, they have too many"
which naturally leads to "idle players x,y can you meet me here quick, they have a pg at main aft junction but it is lightly defended"
"im going to defend tram tunnel, its a key choke point"
etc etc
which naturally leads to "need help at tram tunnel!"
followed if necessary by "need help urgently at tram tunnel idle playes x,y,z, help please!"
Telling your team that the enemy has HMGs/Jps/candy bars is always a very common thing seen in publics, but if you added: need lerk or whatever and people were listening to you youd be surprised how often youd get a reply :P
this may sound impractical in a game situation but 1. most people do this anyway over voicecomms in the form of "OH NOES THEYRE COMING STRAIGHT TO OUR HIVE GET HERE NOW OR WE LOOSE!" so its a matter of streaming it to be as helpful as it can without being annoying or disruptive.
With this little ditty you have: a basic gameplan, people telling other people of problems and actively doing things depending on experience(and offers a great opportunity to learn what to do if youre playing with experienced players).
Another example of voluntary role designation would be to split the team into attack-gorges-defense. With so many players in each,
the attack(scout/attack) groups main focus being:
to make sure marines are parasited and/or contained
to keep the marine expansion to a minimum, ie kill their rts when they arent there
to probe the marine defenses(perferably without dying) finding a weakspot and exploiting it (eg wealky/un-defended rts, weakly/un-defended base
when necessary will invest their res for primarily: the purpose of attacking
but may be required to spend res to defend,(most alien units can do both)
may also be required to support the defend team if the marines are strong
the gorge(support/res) groups focus being:
to supplement the alien team by healspray support, building rts, supplemental chambers (eg ocs at chokepoints or a few dcs in a vent, whatever could be useful
the defense(defense/expansion) groups main focus being:
to make sure the marines are kept at bay from the rts and hive areas, or any area that could endanger them(within reason)
to set up ambushes against approaching (parasited) marines [this will be the case if the attack team does their job]
to expand the base(hives) and build the chambers
to build emergency defense when necessary (+ocs vs jps or with lerk vs LA, +lerks vs LA & JP, +fades vs with lerks, +onos vs HA: situational)
I havent tried this one, it is merely a simple example, I see it working as: once people have chosen their roles(first come first served) they are more or less isolated into smaller groups in non urgent situations, as the groups are so small, considering the small nature of these groups there will generally be either a leader-follower or a team situation. So hopefully they will coordinate their efforts (if one is willing the other will listen) And if the groups know their roles they should hopefully work together reasonably well.
Notice both these methods depend on the experience of the players, I do not think this to be too much of a problem as experienced players can set an example and hopefully others would learn, this reliance on experience is the key to the flexibility of the methods.
<b>Summary:</b>
Need people to come up with systems like these (depressingly long) quick examples.
Need people to sign up to help test these systems.
Need serious replies please :(
If all goes to plan we can have TEAMWORK PUBLIC GAMES!(!!)
Sadly the server I have is in England, but Im willing to admin abroad if you want me to oversee :/
Sorry for the long post, please do not skip this need feedback/contribution :'(
Comments
I doubt you will EVER get everyone to participate in a game in the way you suggest, unless, as on your server, you can ban/kick people who do not use teamwork.
Also, chances are that the majority of people who create problems more often than not, who don't try to work as a team, will not actually be on the NS forums. If there are some, then maybe you should take Ziggy's advice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Elitist servers = Bad.
Banning people because they won't do as you tell them is being a power hungry admin. No I will not put up 2nd hive, you do it. I put up 2nd hive last four games, time for me to be the fade.
From what I know, the only alien "Commander" is the hive. I shouldn't be forced to do what other aliens tell me too. But I should do what I feel is right to keep the hive alive.
Anyway, what you suggested is a way to get the alien team to work as a unified team.
I have played on a server that did this through the use of vote based plug-ins.
At the start of the match the aliens all get a menu that they can use to vote on what chamber they wanted first. They all voted defense, I voted Sensory. When I tried to place a sensory it said that I am only allowed to build defense for this hive. This was annoying as my league strategy involves sensory first.
Anyway, later on more votes kept popping up, displaying everyones resources and people took a vote on who's going to go gorge. Me, having the most resources due to a high amount of kills. Was voted to go gorge. A timer then appeared that said if I didn't gorge in x amount of seconds I would be kicked.
I tried to go fade, but it said that I must go gorge. After I went gorge, it wouldn't let me F4 or kill myself. So I was stuck as a gorge. Then a vote popped up with all the current gorges, their resources, and a vote of what they should do.
They voted me to place a second hive. And I had x amount of seconds to place it before being kicked. So I placed the second hive. Now I was basically the only thing keeping the marines from capping RT's. So now it's practically a tie game because I was the only alien who actually had kills and was doing somthing about the marines.
Later on since I did my gorge duities I went fade and began killing the marines. The vote comes up to "Who should defend X area?" and again I am voted to go defend the X area. If I am not in that area in X seconds I was to be kicked. So here I am stuck defending this stupid area of the map instead of busting up RT's and the undefended marine base.
Aliens lost in that server. I never seen them win. Everyone stacked marines because they didn't want to follow the stupid rules brought about by the voting. It's best to just let the people on your server play as they want to play. The better players will usually do what is better for the team and not just mess around. The new players NEED to mess around to at least learn the game. Some people just play to do a certain strategy.
Trying to regulate a server, admin power or plug-ins will make your server a complete, elitist, failure. Sure you may "win", but who's really the winner when you're being forced to play how someone else tells you? It's not up to server owners to control us, it's up to them to let us have fun.
..and some people have fun in playing as a team and doing as much teamwork as possible on public servers!
There are enough servers for selfish crappy teamplayers, really,
so I am looking forward to a server adminned by ziggy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's like a plug-in infested server or funmap only server...multiple choices and every player choose different cuz of different taste.
1.the proposed examples are far too adaptive to have any elitist tendancy simply because they are that vague and rely on players to think for themselves, if we were to assume when X happens we must do Y and when v happens me must do u the plan would be: complicated, unweildy, and more importantly BORING.
2.in neither of the proposed examples is anyone required to do anything, provided they can give argue that they are doing something. This is because if youre in a game and youre not 'doing anything' then you are being 'useless' and as such must be 'banned'. In this system if you dont know what to do people will help you *find* something to do. If you dont want to do anything then you are not welcome on the team because its teamwork to an objective... winning, if you do not contribute in anyway to this by doing nothing then 1. youll get banned 2. you wouldnt really enjoy playing on a teamplay server.
3.in the above examples its "first come, first serve" for role designation, this means that people who arent waiting to stack teams will get more choice roles, not a utopian solution but this is all I could think of at the time of writing. This means that any injustice you claim to get from roledesignation is false due to the nature of the method
4. vote based plugins wouldnt function too well if the team didnt care about the team itself, I have yet to be on a public server where I have wanted to play due to lack of teamwork, many other people feel the same, I think if we work together we can find an answer this is why I have proposed this now. This project couldnt possibly succeed without other people offering their assistance though :/
5. elitism has always been a concern of mine, but not a single rule (Ill post these tomorrow when I get home) necessary for this to succeed is elitist. The ruleset I intend on using I wrote when I adminned for the haven(though having some admins who had a tendency to be heavyhanded intended absolutely for skill not to be a factor, and as such any assumption of strategy was also not a factor) and was based upon scenarios in which a marine team didnt have teamwork.
6. these methods are merely a guideline, if people can work as a team without them fine but it requires a great deal of effort and communication (time wasted typing, noises muffled speaking etc) to execute <i>without</i> a central leadership figure and as such the methods would be preferrable provided they worked.
7. Though people individually working to a unified goal can acheive victory and with significant experience can almost be considered teamwork it is just not the case for everyone else and as such enforcing communication is the only weapon in the arsenal to promote teamwork that actually works to any degree. Youre random strangers and we have to assume you do not have the innate ability to pseudo-telepathically operate as a team.
8. I want to test this out, do not say it wont work and walk away without atleast trying it :/
9. The proposed examples are designed to be frameworks to work as a team with, they arent there to 'tell you what to do' its just an assumption that maybe youd want some of these tasks done and that getting specific people to do it might be a good idea, the whole game plan is done by the players in both cases. Im not sure its classed as "telling people what to do" when youre suggesting that maybe the team would need some res towers or a hive. The whole point of this "frame work" is that people will use it without being forced to use it, in a manner similar to people adopting the 2fade/lerkrt/dcs/hive/rt in pugs and gathers.
10. maybe it is my fault for mixing my server rules with the proposed methods, the rules of my server are engineered to promote teamwork and to keep possible psychological abuse and misuse from admins to an absolute minimum.
11. these examples are EXAMPLES, I have just finished my exams with a little more time I will probably have *better* examples.
12. do not compare this method, which is entirely voluntary with that warped madhouse you described.
13. if a method (which is entirely voluntary) is used by 60% of your team it is very likely that other people on your team who are paying any shred of notice will join in.
just a few ranty points to answer some of your statement :/
but please could you explain to me how having a vague framework like the examples I proposed being 'elitist' ?
Instead of going onos, the team wants a third hive. Now would you ban me for going onos instead of putting up the third hive? In my way, I can destroy the heavies, kill res nodes, and more as an onos. Putting up the hive will only allow two hives after the first was sieged by the heavies.
Elitist servers would force you to make third hive, based on their judgement and will, rather than the players.
Would you ban for this:
I decided to go parasite scout skulk for a good portion of the game. I keep all enemy buildings, players, etc parasited as well as deliver feedback to what they are doing and what tech level they're at. I eventually accumulate 50 resources. Would you be like "g0 f4dZ0r or j00 g3T t3H B4NZ00r!!!11" ? Or would you allow me to keep the enemy team scouted and well informed until I was able to go onos? I may not be killing anything, but my job is basically giving the alien team a "Legit MapHack" (RTS games based.)
I can understand kicking for being useless, but not banning. There aren't too many servers out there, and it wouldn't be too smart to accidentally ban an entire LAN center because a nine year old was goofing off not knowing how to play at a cafe, ruining it for all the other customers who might want to play at some time.
What exactly is your definition of useless players? Those who don't spend res immediately, those who go to 99 res, but have 20/0 ratio as skulk? Need more information. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If the server is up, I'll give it a stress test to find out myself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Consider clan play
90% of the games played there are with people you regularly play with, know each others strenghts and weaknesses and can work well as a team.
You should play there ziggy, O wait sorry mate I forgot you got permantly banned for admin abuse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Morale of the story, dont try to make people play how you want them to, let them work it out for themselves.
You should consider trying to talk with the players and make them understand what you want from the game, or if public play still lacks what you seek, Try clan play - you will get teamwork but you will always be on the reciving end of orders.
But just think, about the examples you give where you are doing a good job, but the admin tells you to do something else. The admin is not a robot, he will have a brain. Assuming that he is fairly intelligent (lets take Ziggy as the example here <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), then communication will occur between you and him.
Example:
Ziggy says "Right, jammo has the most res, so he is able to put up the hive now."
Jammo says "They have HAs en route to our other hive(s), I would help far more by evolving to Fade/Onos and getting rid of them. Someone else will have res for the hive soon enough."
Ziggy says "OK, I am not a robot. I can communicate and understand other players. You probably should evolve and defend the hive. NSPlayer has almost enough res, he can get the hive."
Jammo says "Thanks, good work Ziggy. We make a great team, don't you think?"
Ziggy says "Indeed we do. We should play together more often."
The story doesnt end quite so happily, as Jammo's Onos egg gets shot before he can evolve. The hive is lost and the aliens lose. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But still, see my point? Obviously there are going to be times when the players and admin will disagree, but if you give good reason for the action you should take, what makes you think he will say "T3H B4NN!!!!11" ?
90% of the games played there are with people you regularly play with, know each others strenghts and weaknesses and can work well as a team.
You should play there ziggy, O wait sorry mate I forgot you got permantly banned for admin abuse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Morale of the story, dont try to make people play how you want them to, let them work it out for themselves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually Ive been perm banned from Brys for almost 2 years now, there was a brief 2 day period when I first got steam where I wasnt banned, I fail to see how this has any relevance to anything. PS: Give SuperBOB my regards.
This is not telling people how to play, this is enabling people to play as a team without telling them what to do whenever possible:
If you play a game you will need a hive at some point, generally this is done as early as possible by having someone save for it.
Considering the size of the teams the bare minimum(possible defended amount in 8v8 at a push 3? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) of rts needed is set in the method.
At ABSOLUTELY NO POINT is anyone *told* to do anything, and beyond the 4-5 minute mark no-one should even be required to fulfil any of the previously mentioned (except maybe a perm gorge). The method, beyond the above considerations.
<b>everybody does their own thing</b>, but arent considered to be 'doing anything' if they 'do not give a reason for what theyre doing'. This can possibly be abused but in little situations would that even be relevent.
<!--QuoteBegin-Walking Target+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walking Target)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ziggy - by the very nature of public play you will find that there will always be people who dont listen every now and then. Banning / kicking people isnt a solution, also shouting does nothing for the team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
banning people who dont communicate is a necessary evil if we are to believe teamwork => communication, I can remove all the emotion from it by making it absolute rules, I can make it less harsh by removing it if asked, but if I do not ban that player that player will destroy the teamwork. Ive tested this before, it works.
Its not a matter of banning people who do not listen and do not communicate 100% of the time(no ones an ns god regardless of what they might think), its a matter of banning people who do not listen or do not communicate EVER. These are the people who are not participating, going for their own goals oblivious to the actual game being played, sadly I found this to be anything between 10-70% of servers Ive adminned but it is absolutely necessary; and if your server is popular enough the slow removal of said people should not hinder the standard flow of the server, this is further boosted by the use of reserved slots for teamplayers creating a community that is always needed for any successful server.
<!--QuoteBegin-jammno+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jammno)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, lets say the marines have all heavies, and I have 69 resources. I have parasited the whole heavy train and will have enough resources to go Onos before they get to the hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As said only a few paragraphs above: "<b>everybody does their own thing</b>, but arent considered to be 'doing anything' if they 'do not give a reason for what theyre doing'. This can possibly be abused but in little situations would that even be relevent."
Now when it comes to the abuse of it, generally one would consider first the sincerity of the action, then the purpose of the action (would it accomplish anything?) and then yeah they probably would go with their own limited judgement.
Again I must reinterate <b>this is not telling people what to do</b>, this is asking people to do things at the start of the game that you may think to be useful like save for a hive or save for a fade. Once that is out the way everyone would be left to do their own thing. The only point where asking doesnt produce results then asking people directly will either get a response, like "no sorry cant defending cargo" or "no" or no response. in case 2 you ask for a reason, in case 3 the person is not listening to the team :/
The model is just to make sure that everyone is doing something so they do not fight over it later when it is important to be done,
it relies heavily on people doing what they think is right,
if theyre lost or confused other people will help them (either directly or by asking for help doing something).
<!--QuoteBegin- "[SiD|Squishy"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( "[SiD|Squishy")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Right so I read the first 5 seconds or so of that...
Consider clan play <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Walking Target+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walking Target)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Try clan play <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Over the past two years here are a few of the clans Ive played against,
Torment
Team LOVE
Ariadne
Intrepid
Mtme
<3
ebola
HAM
fwd
terror
black market
I feel "try clan play" has to be an ignorant statement, I cant really place it any other way, I dont want "more clan play" I want to "teamplay" publics, normal publics dont do anything for me and I remember servers where there used to be teamwork.
Im not dumb :'(
at least thats what my mom always told me...
:S
We can not let this happen!
Keep in mind that NS is still a CS mod!
Combat is funner than NS, trust me!
Stop alien teamwork before its too late!
We can not let this happen!
Keep in mind that NS is still a CS mod!
Combat is funner than NS, trust me!
Stop alien teamwork before its too late! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotta keep my eyes from the circling skies.
or what you said <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->