Simple Rules...
Parasite
Join Date: 2002-04-13 Member: 431Members
Join Date: 2002-04-13 Member: 431Members
<div class="IPBDescription">for Gorges to follow.</div> I hate it when I am not a Gorge and my Gorges dont follow these simple codes of conduct.
1. Build Defense Chambers FIRST!!!!
Nothing can make things more difficult for your team than not being able to fall back and heal during those early 1 Hive battles.
Knowing that "the enemy approaches" is all but useless when all you can do is hide from them. Let skulks Parasite bad guys as they attack. Adrenaline doesnt help much for Bite and Spit either. The best order I find is --- Defense>Movement>Sensory---
2. Build at least 1 Defense chamber with any (every) structure you build. As other aliens its important that they can just drop back to the first structure they see and regenerate health...and its also frustrating when you arent able to do so in the heat of battle. This includes Recource pods. (try to have at least 3 defense and 3 offense per Resource pod, and possibly 1 sense)
3. Advance the frontline with "Outposts". As stronger aliens push ahead, dont just heal them, plop down "outposts" along the way. Structures build themselves slowly, allowing you to heal rather than build. Lay down webs as well, so when your commrads fall back to your outposts to heal, advancing marines will be find themselves defensless for a few seconds. I usualy build a row of 3 defense with 4 Offense in fromt of them. I put 2-3 sensory in front of those to absorb enemy fire and warn of approaching troops, but not blocking the offense chambers line of fire. Then I stack 2 more offense turrets on top of the whole cluster leaving me 2 more to use somewhere in the "area". to top it off I will put a few more defense chambers behind the first 3 for faster regeneration. Be sure you leave room for you teammates to either run by or jump over your outpost.
4. Carefully place your Webs! and dont web spam. Ideally, you want your webs to be invisible, the best way to achieve this is by laying your webs on the floor, try to camoflauge them in the floor texture. Place 1 strand about every 12-16 feet or so, just enough that a marine will just be getting unstuck before getting caught again, but dont connect the two strands. Switch to another weapon and fire off a shot, then lay another strand. Other times you Absolutely must trap a marine in a crucial doorway or you may want to scare the marines by having webs visible. To do this I lay my first strand at about knee level...to low for them too duck under but not too low, then I lay another strand diagonal to a point about chest high and run another straight across from that to finish it off I lay my next strand to the floor in the middle of the doorway and another back to the very top forming a "V".
1. Build Defense Chambers FIRST!!!!
Nothing can make things more difficult for your team than not being able to fall back and heal during those early 1 Hive battles.
Knowing that "the enemy approaches" is all but useless when all you can do is hide from them. Let skulks Parasite bad guys as they attack. Adrenaline doesnt help much for Bite and Spit either. The best order I find is --- Defense>Movement>Sensory---
2. Build at least 1 Defense chamber with any (every) structure you build. As other aliens its important that they can just drop back to the first structure they see and regenerate health...and its also frustrating when you arent able to do so in the heat of battle. This includes Recource pods. (try to have at least 3 defense and 3 offense per Resource pod, and possibly 1 sense)
3. Advance the frontline with "Outposts". As stronger aliens push ahead, dont just heal them, plop down "outposts" along the way. Structures build themselves slowly, allowing you to heal rather than build. Lay down webs as well, so when your commrads fall back to your outposts to heal, advancing marines will be find themselves defensless for a few seconds. I usualy build a row of 3 defense with 4 Offense in fromt of them. I put 2-3 sensory in front of those to absorb enemy fire and warn of approaching troops, but not blocking the offense chambers line of fire. Then I stack 2 more offense turrets on top of the whole cluster leaving me 2 more to use somewhere in the "area". to top it off I will put a few more defense chambers behind the first 3 for faster regeneration. Be sure you leave room for you teammates to either run by or jump over your outpost.
4. Carefully place your Webs! and dont web spam. Ideally, you want your webs to be invisible, the best way to achieve this is by laying your webs on the floor, try to camoflauge them in the floor texture. Place 1 strand about every 12-16 feet or so, just enough that a marine will just be getting unstuck before getting caught again, but dont connect the two strands. Switch to another weapon and fire off a shot, then lay another strand. Other times you Absolutely must trap a marine in a crucial doorway or you may want to scare the marines by having webs visible. To do this I lay my first strand at about knee level...to low for them too duck under but not too low, then I lay another strand diagonal to a point about chest high and run another straight across from that to finish it off I lay my next strand to the floor in the middle of the doorway and another back to the very top forming a "V".
Comments
And i would like to add a rule nr. 5 too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
5. Only 1, and MAX 2 gorges on your team. Else your team will get resources slower, and you wont have enough skulks to prevent the marines from expanding.
Edit: I think thats wrong Kobra. There is a post about this either in the khara strat or the general discusion part.
I only disagree with your 'best order' for chamber construction: defense should be built first, alright, but why movement second? Sensory gives great upgrades, like cloaking and scent of fear, that really help the skulks/Fades in your team. IMHO movement chambers should only be built second for transportation between endangered hives.
just my 2 cents
actually...you need at least 3 to have full upgrades, and 3 is the max upgrade level. You need at least 3 in the map to fully enjoy your re-gen or carapace or whatever the other one is (I only use carapace) Each one emits its own healing power regardless of how many are nearby, but you can only place so many in one "area", so you are capped in a way. I believe 6 is the max in an area.
I only disagree with your 'best order' for chamber construction: defense should be built first, alright, but why movement second? Sensory gives great upgrades, like cloaking and scent of fear, that really help the skulks/Fades in your team. IMHO movement chambers should only be built second for transportation between endangered hives.
just my 2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I wasnt realy posting that as a strat...that one is still open to debate. As of yet Ive seen that adrenaline is a must for lerks, wich is a very common evolution to see at that point in the game. Also, I prefer cerelity or silence over cloak as a Skulk, AHS and SoF seem all but useless to me. Cloaking is pretty useless as well once the Marines have scaners up.
A Skulk who doesn't make any noise when moving and biting is more deadly than a Skulk who is stationary and makes a lot of noise.
Movement Chambers for 2 hive is important as it allows you to travel between hives to defend hives faster.
Also put MC in outposts so units stationed there and fall back to hive to defend immediately.
BTW, IMO, within 1st 5 minutes of a new game, 2 Gorge must cap as many Resource Nodes as possible, and rely on the Skulks to defend them until resource points is flowing in like mad. Then lay the defences and secure the hives.
Also the Skulks must always remember to press F4 and rejoin the team each time they die, during the 1st 5-10 minutes of the game where 2nd and 3rd hive are not secured yet. This gives the 2 Gorge in your team a lot of resources for capping resources nodes a hell lot faster and surely the 2nd and 3rd Hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Each one emits its own healing power regardless of how many are nearby<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->EXACTLY.
Which means the more the faster rate of healing. 6 is the max in one area though. And 6 DC certainly heals a damn lot faster than 3 DC.
Many Kharaa players fail to realise this FACT and I had to scream at them or I build them myself.
That door web diagram has to be about the most annoying thing I've ever seen. I cant stand it when, as an alien, a Gorge puts webs up like that. You know, those webs can be taken down with a simple marine with a welder. By your little "diagram," you're screaming for your Gorge's to waste the webs (NOTE: did you know that you're only allowed a maximum number? Betcha didnt...)
Now, if you're wanting to use webs effectivly, I reccomend laying them down in a zig-zag patter along the floor. Why you ask? Becuase they're harder to see. not only that, but when you have 3 marines charge around a corner, the first gets stuck, slows down, gets passed by the second one who gets stuck and slows down which lets the thrid one get stuck and slows down. While these marines are playing in the webs, coordinate with a fade or have some Def Chambers waiting to take the marines out.
By the pattern you've got set up, all you're doing is slowing the marine down long enough for him to burn through the webs without imobilizing him and keeping his weapons at bay.
Offense turrets CAN NOT fire through other structures. Place one row of them, or if you feel like it, a Forest of Lame. Place a row of DCs behind that, with ONE sensor chamber behind all that. Offense chambers need line-of-sight to fire on marines, just like a Gorge's spit attack, so don't layer them if you can help it.
The Offensive Chambers you saw which are not shooting is probably due to
- target out of range
| = walls
. = floor
M = Marine
O = Offensive Chamber
D = Defensive Chamber
S = Sensory Chamber
W = Web
___________
|..........M........
|.......M............
|...........M........
|..........|--------
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|.OOO..|
|..DDD.|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
As a marine, I've seen chamber placements like this. [sarcasm]'very smart'[/sarcasm]
Marines are able to take out the outpost with HMG without taking a hit from the Offensive Chamebers
______________
|..............SOD.......
|.WW.......SOD.......
|.....W.....SOD........
|WWW.|-------------
|.....W..|
|..W.....|
|.M...M..|
|....M....|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
|..........|
If the 'roadblock' was like this, things would be a bit different.
Sorry, but you're wrong. They don't fire through <i>most</i> structures, but they fire straight through sensory chambers with no problems at all. In fact, I've personally used 2 rows of stacked sensory chambers with no problem. Whether it's by bug or design, I don't know. I do know that they don't block offensive chamber fire.
Also, there's no point in putting one behind a cluster of towers since their sole purpose other than soaking up damage is to spot marines. Sitting one behind a cluster of other chambers is a waste of points.
I don't necessarily agree with his webbing design, but clusters of 6 stacked defense chambers behind 6-8 stacked offense chambers with stacked sensory chambers in front of that is the only way to go.
I think that might be part of the misunderstanding with this - you don't neccesarily build it like that in one fell swoop, nor do you have to plonk it down in every room. Start it off as two or three offense chambers with one or preferably two defense chambers behind them at key chokepoints during/after a push such as the top of the Triad or Horseshoe in Eclipse. Until the marines get Heavy Armor and Heavy Machine Guns, seige turrets, or grenade launchers that'll do fine. It'll be good longer if you build it in a place that they can't easily get grenades onto or get prolonged MG fire on it. That's something you can do with just one hive, assuming someone hasn't been an asshat and put down a sensory chamber at the first hive. As soon as you can, plop on a few more Offensive turrets and max out your deffensive turrets, do it. The net effect will be that the marines will either become obssesed with trying to kill something that they can't which will waste their time or they'll decide it's easier to just go out the other door which will allow your offensive team to more effectively harrass and kill them since they know what direction they have to come from. Once they get grenade launchers or both heavy armor and heavy machine guns, put up a wall of sensory chambers to be safe.
And I absolutely advocate putting something like this guarding each hive. I've been in way to many games where some marine with a jetpack and an attentive commander managed to get into the vents and take out a whole hive while people were off raping marines elsewhere.
This configuration is good even if you only have two, or even one hive and your **obscenity** is being handed to you - as long as you keep your defense chamber hive. Once you get it set up, it'll take marines forever even using teamwork to get through, hopefully giving the aliens time to get out there and kill them. It's much more cost effective and secure to have 200 RPs tied up in in a mass that's near impossible to kill that than scattered around in 80 RP's clumps that have to keep being partially or fully replaced.
That door web diagram has to be about the most annoying thing I've ever seen. I cant stand it when, as an alien, a Gorge puts webs up like that. You know, those webs can be taken down with a simple marine with a welder. By your little "diagram," you're screaming for your Gorge's to waste the webs (NOTE: did you know that you're only allowed a maximum number? Betcha didnt...)
Now, if you're wanting to use webs effectivly, I reccomend laying them down in a zig-zag patter along the floor. Why you ask? Becuase they're harder to see. not only that, but when you have 3 marines charge around a corner, the first gets stuck, slows down, gets passed by the second one who gets stuck and slows down which lets the thrid one get stuck and slows down. While these marines are playing in the webs, coordinate with a fade or have some Def Chambers waiting to take the marines out.
By the pattern you've got set up, all you're doing is slowing the marine down long enough for him to burn through the webs without imobilizing him and keeping his weapons at bay.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously, you can type. Even more obvious is the fact that you cant read. Pay attention! That pattern is not likely to tangle a marine, its just there to slow them up or stop them in thier tracks and, if they dont have a welder..they have no choice but to get tangled if they wanna get thru that door.(NOTE: did you know that If you are hitting the web limit your obviously doing something wrong? Betcha didnt...)
Webs on the floor? novel idea, I wish I would have thought of it.
I try to refer to it as an "outpost" rather than a cluster because, its something you would only need in 4 or 5 key poisitions around the map. Usually, I build these when my teammates are fighting for control of a corridor or room. I put one of these around the corner from the fight so my mates can drop back and heal and marines that are able to push foreward are greeted with a massive onslaught. This isnt really the most tactical use for your chambers in every situation, that layout is very good for the uses I mention. Some situations call for Offense Chambers to be a bit more hidden and spread out, but a single offense is pretty easy for a single marine to take out. Even if they are getting hit from all sides, a marine can take out at least 1 with concentrated fire and strafing. It takes 6-7 nades to start doing any real damage to that layout if it has full health, prolly about 13-14 to kill it entirely. Not to mention at least 13-14 shots for a siege cannon to finish it off. I think its a good strategy when used correctly, and my team has always appreciated having such protection to fall back to when they needed to make a hasty retreat. (exept 1 time an Onos couldnt get by it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) BTW the sensory chambers arent nesescary for this, they just help to soak up machine gun fire before it hits the offense turrets. and scince they are so cheap they are the best "armor" for the set-up. Also, Offensive chambers DO fire through Sense chambers though I still try to give the OCs a good line of fire regardless. I wouldnt have mentioned it if I hadnt tried it. Ive implemented all those "rules" into gameplay and each serves the purpose I mention.
One last thing...if you want to be an Onos you may be missing the whole point of the thread.
Usually when I find that the web limit has been reached, it's because some poor new player has applied wasteful webbing techniques like the ones you're reccommending. Often, I'll walk down a hallway and see webbing stretching the entire length, running from floor to ceiling with absolutly no apparent thought to tactics or strategy.
As for using the door webbing to
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->slow them up or stop them in thier tracks and, if they dont have a welder..they have no choice but to get tangle<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why make it obvious?!? Webs are designed to be a surprise trap for unwary marines. DONT let them know it's there! Even if they DO have a welder, if you keep your webs hidden, odds are that they will still walk through the webs.
And as for just slowing them down, why? What's the point? Team up with a Skulk or a Fade when you put out webs. Use your spit when a marine gets trapped or the Babblers attack. Dont just lay down some webbing and "hope" that it slows someone down. Use the webbing as a means to attack instead of just pretty door decorations. There's nothing better than seeing a webbed marine in heavy armor with a HMG inable to fight back against a Gorge.
Personally, I kinda like Parasite's web graph but I dislike his order of upgrade chambers.
I like to do Sensory, Defence, and then Movement. (Sometimes I switch Defence and Sensory around depending on our first hive's condition) My reason is because most marine teams DO NOT even attempt to make an attack upon a hive until most alien teams get at least 2 hives up.
My favorite type of chamber layouts is:
O
OO
<u>OOO</u> <- Ground
D
<u>DD</u> <- Behind the O chambers
<u>S</u> <-Behind the O and D chambers.
Pyramid style <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, I have had good results putting a very low web at this T. Marines who think they are smart jump over it.
yea, u build 2 "useless" def chambres, thats 28 resources!
only 3 def towers stack up.
Where is it written by the devs that 3 is the max for healing? I keep hearing this, but no one is putting up hard evidence, and _my ingame experience says otherwise.