Ns Map Chambers

Death_BloomsDeath_Blooms Join Date: 2004-08-10 Member: 30518Members Posts: 15
quick answer please:)
i dont play much ns maps anymore due to little free time, but if i do..

a skilled alien team should drop mc/dc/sc smile-fix.gif ?? ?

ive experimented with all the chambers, and it seems best to pick chambers that benifit the weaker aliens cause then the whole team benifits at start...

which means you probably take over all the res nodes and build more hives then drop more chambers to help your newly evolved higher lifeforms, is this sounding alright ? heh

im new tounge.gif and im a co ****

i would be down with sc first, but yea an obseritory would just **** you over ....

silence pwns!



L I B E R A T E

Comments

  • UzguzUzguz Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17016Members, Constellation Posts: 342 Fully active user
    This is one of, if not the most debated aspect of NS strategy, so you shouldn't expect a "quick answer". These threads only pop up once in a very rare while, and then usually only when a new version is imminent or just released, and such threads usually grow to about ten pages in a week. This one probably won't, as most people can't be arsed arguing about this kind of thing when the latest version has been out for three months and the next one doesn't look to be coming any time soon, as they believe that by this time it's well and truly been settled; the epic discussions only happen when the matter really is yet to be determined, thanks to version changes. Still, chances are that this thread will, nonetheless, become somewhat bloated.

    I'm going to start controversially and announce my support of the Movement Chamber. If the Kharaa team has the brains to get the second Hive early, MDS is the regal order. It's a bit of a gamble on a public server full of stupid people*, but even then, it could work.

    *I am not stating that "all pubbers are stupid", or that clanners are inherently smarted than pubbers, or anything of the sort. Rather, I am simply pointing out that this is more of a problem on public servers where people are less inclined towards thinking about their approach.

    What's good about Movement?

    1) The Skulk benefits substantially more from Celerity or Silence than from Carapace.
    -1a. Let's face it, Carapace on Skulks sucks balls. It provides a very minimal longevity boost, which is often overrated. Its resource efficiency is atrocious. Furthermore, it provides no tactical benefit, in that it doesn't grant its user with any special abilities.
    -1b. There are a lot of opinions about Celerity on a Skulk. Some like it, some don't. Most of the dissent against Celerity Skulks is based on the common assertion that they're too hard for the player to control. This is not at all true; it is simply harder, but by no means impossible. It takes a bit of practice, but is well worth the effort. Furthermore, a lot of people say that Celerity on a Skulk is countered by aim. This, too, is false. Of course, if the Skulk runs in a perfectly straight line towards the front of the Marine, nothing will save it, but Celerity shines when it is used in conjunction with the standard crackjumping technique, and is simply obscene with bunnyhopping. Furthermore, not only does it make the Skulk harder for the Marine to hit, but of course, it also means that the gap is closed faster, meaning that the Marine has time to fire fewer shots than s/he otherwise would.
    -1c. Silence on a Skulk is a truly beautiful thing. The tactical benefit it provides is ridiculous. It is even better an ambush tool than Cloaking if used correctly (that is, in conjunction with the often-overlooked vents, or a few other nasty unlikely or hard-to-see places). With it, a Skulk can run right up behind a Marine, and s/he won't even notice. If the Marine is distracted or not very observant, the Skulk can even land the first bite without the Marine realising, and if that happens, then human reaction times won't allow the Marine to so much as turn around before falling. Not only that, but what little sound escapes level 3 Silence when a Skulk bites a Marine is so soft and inoccuous that Marines at the front of a group mightn't hear those made by the one at the back. On top of that, it's also good in the midst of a fray simply for the fact that it is confusing. If a player can't hear a fast-moving Skulk that s/he cannot see, s/he has absolutely no chance of tracking it. So long as the Skulk stays out of the Marine's field of view, the Marine is powerless. This works even better in groups of Marines, where each individual is looking in a different direction; few can cope with the chaos that ensues.

    2) The Movement Chamber's field abilities have tactical benefits that outshine those of the Defense Chamber in the early game.
    -1a. The first and lesser of the Movement Chamber's field abilities is the energy regeneration effect it provides within a small radius. Admittedly, this is useful in few situations, but one of those is the much-dreaded event of Hive defence. Arguably, the Defense Chamber is better for this purpose than Movement Chambers, as, per the name, the Defense Chamber is made for defensive situations, but while the Movement Chamber doesn't provide the Defense Chamber's much-coveted healing effect, the energy regeneration effect allows for a few tricks of its own. For a start, it's a great boost to Gorges spamming Healing Spray. Spore enthusiasts also benefit a good deal. Even Skulks make good use of it for base-breaking. These bonuses also apply to Movement Chambers placed in the horribly-underused but very effective forward defences.
    -1b. The more pertinent of the Movement Chamber's field abilities is its teleportation function. This has two early-game uses: one, it allows a Gorge to make a quick escape if a Marine is advancing upon its position, whereas a Gorge with the utility of Defence Chambers would almost certainly die; and secondly, it makes defence of a second Hive in construction very easy, since it is possible to teleport to a building Hive under attack. This latter point is of increased importance in public servers, where the inconvenience of actually moving to the second Hive may be too much effort for some public players. Even once the second Hive is up, the fact that the teleportation ability is available instantly, and not only after the team decides to build a second lot of chambers, is a great advantage.

    Well, it's 10:18pm over here in Sydney, and I'm starting to tire somewhat, so that's all I have to say on the matter for the moment. You who reads this, consider the points I present, and with that I say:

    Let the enraged arguing begin!
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    All hail the MC. Choice of the enlightened pub.

    Failing that, DC.



    Against a first time comm? SC.
  • OrganoXOrganoX Join Date: 2004-03-21 Member: 27473Members Posts: 837
    PCW: DC
    Public: DC(80%) / MC(20%)
    Noob comm/marines: MC(60%) / SC(40%)
    image
  • degamer106degamer106 Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28550Banned Posts: 162
    edited August 2004
    Well it really depends on how good your team is and how good their team is.
    If your team doesn't know what upgrades to get that are necessary for owning the marines...then I dunno what to say. If they have experienced players + a good com, any chamber you put out first won't really make the slightest difference.

    Anyway...

    I think it's better to get dcs first to be on the safe side since most alien players are used to getting regen or cara first and working wonders with them.

    Sensory chambers first would be good if their com doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Put up 3 ASAP if your team is planning to do this. Get either focus or cloaking. SOF if you're a gorge.

    Movement chambers...i dunno. Silence sounds like the only ideal upgrade to get in the beginning. Adrenaline and celerity aren't really great starters for a lot of players since they don't have much use until the third abilities for the lerk, skulk, and onos get up. Maybe adren would be great for gorge, but other than that it's good for nothing until the second hive.


    In pubs almost anything you do will work so just try it out. The key is to have teamwork once everyone decides what chamber will come out first.
    BOO NO COMPUTER AND NO INTERNET
    I WILL MISS NS SO MUCH D:

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  • UzguzUzguz Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17016Members, Constellation Posts: 342 Fully active user
    Never underestimate the Celerity Skulk.
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Members Posts: 239
    edited August 2004
    use the search function next time!

    edit: i'm a BEAST! pH34|2 m3hh
  • UzguzUzguz Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17016Members, Constellation Posts: 342 Fully active user
    QUOTE (j3st @ Aug 19 2004, 04:44 PM)
    i'm a BEAST! pH34|2 m3hh

    No.

    Anyway, as for the nature of this thread - it is, as I predicted, taking a slow start because of the stagnation of the topic by version. However, it may yet grow, and it would be quite interesting if it did.

    More opinions/arguments, anyone? This issue is never dead, after all...
  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit Join Date: 2004-08-08 Member: 30456Members Posts: 44 Fully active user
    Heavily depends on map
    ns_tanith's SCs PWNS EVERYTHING!
    MS is far away so Obs is far away too and let the cloack begin
    Also i dont say about focus skulk rushes
    And SoF proved to be usefull to track rines thru map

    And if gorge puts some SCs around marine loacation there will be liek

    Marine : What the hell?! i hear fade but cant see anything! any vents her--AAAAARRRGHHHHHH!
    user posted image
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation Posts: 1,055
    QUOTE (WhiteRabbit @ Aug 19 2004, 07:36 AM)
    Heavily depends on map
    ns_tanith's SCs PWNS EVERYTHING!
    MS is far away so Obs is far away too and let the cloack begin
    Also i dont say about focus skulk rushes
    And SoF proved to be usefull to track rines thru map

    And if gorge puts some SCs around marine loacation there will be liek

    Marine : What the hell?! i hear fade but cant see anything! any vents her--AAAAARRRGHHHHHH!

    And then he gets MT and scan lock down 2 hives and the aliens are liek.: "What the hell?! I is close to sc but I is not cloaked?!" Later on they all get gunned down by the "torrents" in the hives.
    Edit? Edit what? Signature? What signature?
  • j3stj3st Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29602Members Posts: 239
    they can have mroe than one obs...putting them in key locations is a normal thing to do when sc is up
  • degamer106degamer106 Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28550Banned Posts: 162
    On tanith its a good idea to stick sc in the vent that joins chem trans + reactor room. There's this little passage way to the left (if you enter from the chem transport side) that leads into a small space closed off by a wall. behind that wall is the entrance to the welding point into satcom. place sc or dc there and your mates who are either raping or fleeing the marine base can heal///cloak by standing close to the wall biggrin-fix.gif

    Another good place is probably on the ledge next to the Fusion Reactor hive. It's hard to reach and difficult to see.
    BOO NO COMPUTER AND NO INTERNET
    I WILL MISS NS SO MUCH D:

    #battery on gamesurge.
  • SLizerSLizer Join Date: 2003-11-07 Member: 22363Members, Constellation Posts: 1,301
    QUOTE (WhiteRabbit @ Aug 19 2004, 02:36 AM)
    Heavily depends on map
    ns_tanith's SCs PWNS EVERYTHING!
    MS is far away so Obs is far away too and let the cloack begin

    I allways make my obs next to the rt....
    The place of refugee
    I really dont eat and stuff its just that sometimes I transform into a cuddly tiger.
  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit Join Date: 2004-08-08 Member: 30456Members Posts: 44 Fully active user
    Oh well
    You guys said everything to make SC impossible , im not sure even half of you do what u say (no offence, i played long enough to figure out what average comm dont do right)
    user posted image
  • UzguzUzguz Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17016Members, Constellation Posts: 342 Fully active user
    It's just that 95% of the Sensory-first games tend to be Alien losses, as opposed to the ~50% success rate of the other chambers, in my experience.

    People have the right to feel contemptuous about Sensory Chambers first. For all the incredible wonders the pro-SC players tend to shower on them, they seem to be so horribly ineffective.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation Posts: 3,203
    Aliens on pub games really have no notion of how to play alien. And thats from experience even on the better servers.

    With DC, every chamber is a good choice. You regen automatically, or you withstand more damage automatically, or you return to the hive automatically.

    With MC, you move faster automatically, or quieter automatically, or you can bitespam all day.


    With SC, you NEED to know how to hit your target for a one hit kill, you NEED to know how to crawl, or you can automatically see all the bad guys.


    Sad to say a lot of people just lack the wit. If your time rushes in spamming the attack key then SC is just going to shorten the game real quick for you.

    Yes I have seen MT as a counter, but MT is cold comfort against a one hit kill. Even armor 1 is a poor defence against focus aliens.


    Let it be said however that I prefer MC first, because its a lot handier for dominating a map earlygame. But I wouldn't rule out SC just because a lot of people can't bite properly.
  • degamer106degamer106 Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28550Banned Posts: 162
    IMO its quite easy to counter mcs with mt and electrification.
    BOO NO COMPUTER AND NO INTERNET
    I WILL MISS NS SO MUCH D:

    #battery on gamesurge.
  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit Join Date: 2004-08-08 Member: 30456Members Posts: 44 Fully active user
    Elec is not 4 teh win!
    It counters with only one fade mean rine team looses not 15 res on RT but 45 res on RT
    See the difference? so many comms rely not on elec but on rines, and u wont see many elecs in average games
    user posted image
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