Swift Boat Veterans For America
reasa
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">*Yawn* Who cares?</div> I don't know if anyone has been watching the news today, but if you have you undoubtably heard all about this new comercial released by the Swift Boat Veterans For America, who I personally don't like.
But this topic isn't about wether or not you support the add, agree or disagree with it, or wether or not you think Bush should denounce it. (waste of time)
The media (specifically CNN) is makeing this out to be such a huge controversy, when in fact the only people who seem to care about it is the media. I'm disguseted to see that an entire day of news has been spent agrueing about a COMERICAL. I have heard virtually nothing about Iraq, Afganistan, or anything else that is actually real important news.
If you watch FOX and want real news your going to be especially disgusted because now they take what little coverage time they had for Iraq etc...and have combined this swift boat BS with their Kobe/ Perterson/Jackson trial coverage (which NO ONE ever has is or will care about) to make a giant worthless channel of crap.
Other news channels are little better.
Well what do you think of this mess, why does our media suck so much? (for lack of better words)
PS: Why is this forum so dead lately, there is plenty of stuff going on in the world. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But this topic isn't about wether or not you support the add, agree or disagree with it, or wether or not you think Bush should denounce it. (waste of time)
The media (specifically CNN) is makeing this out to be such a huge controversy, when in fact the only people who seem to care about it is the media. I'm disguseted to see that an entire day of news has been spent agrueing about a COMERICAL. I have heard virtually nothing about Iraq, Afganistan, or anything else that is actually real important news.
If you watch FOX and want real news your going to be especially disgusted because now they take what little coverage time they had for Iraq etc...and have combined this swift boat BS with their Kobe/ Perterson/Jackson trial coverage (which NO ONE ever has is or will care about) to make a giant worthless channel of crap.
Other news channels are little better.
Well what do you think of this mess, why does our media suck so much? (for lack of better words)
PS: Why is this forum so dead lately, there is plenty of stuff going on in the world. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
some info? (preferably nonbiased, like a link to it if you can find it?)
bush didn't cry about feriegnhieght 9/11 did he? he didn't go "oh boo hoo propaganda" no he took it like a man, something kerry should learn to do
like most demacrats kerry needs to stop whining and grow up
I changed my mind. I find it funny that they call Kerry a sellout when someone like Reagan sold out himself, sold out our social security to go to war with an ideal of peace and equality. Granted the people who claimed to persue it were bad but it is wrong all the same to spend billions on fighting an idea that can never die.
Now really, it's a campaign ad made by people who want Bush to win, funded by people who want Bush to win. Not unlike anti-Bush ads funded by Moveon.org.
It isn't even that controvertical as far as I can see, it's simply vets who fought in Vietnam giveing THEIR opinion of why Kerry is unfit to lead due to his actions after Vietnam. This is being blown horribly out of proportion, and honestly who didn't see this comeing? Kerry used his Vietnam record as a major staple of his campaign, obviously in America's current political climate a persons war record is hardly above speculation and criticism.
It's an ad, why devote countless hours of media time to it?
bush didn't cry about feriegnhieght 9/11 did he? he didn't go "oh boo hoo propaganda" no he took it like a man, something kerry should learn to do
like most demacrats kerry needs to stop whining and grow up<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Press doesn't cover things like slander and libel. The "He should shut up and not respond to these allegations" approach probably isn't the best political move, but fortunately the Dems and the Kerry campaign aren't getting advice from random message board posters.
Bush didn't need to complain about Fahrenheit 9/11. He doesn't need to when there's a thousand other GOP members doing it for him. Besides, both parties like these independent groups doing their dirty work for them. Why do you think Bush won't condemn SBVFT? Instead Bush has McClellan call for an end of all "soft money" groups. Of course that's what the Republicans want. MoveOn.Org has raised far more money than any Republican 527.
Frankly, all of these political advertisments are rediculous. I haven't seen any Bush ads about what his domestic policies are. Every Bush ad I've seen has been either attacking Kerry or "9/11 Nevar Forget!" I've seen one or two positive ones from Kerry, but I haven't seen many Kerry ads here. I think that both parties are run by pompous knuckleheads who don't know their **** from a hole in the ground. Both candidates have been sufficiently vague to qualify as a nebula. I'm hoping Bush offers up some policy at the RNC, but I think it's going to be just like the DNC, only with "Terror 9/11!" instead of "I'm a veteran."
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you watch FOX and want real news your going to be especially disgusted because now they take what little coverage time they had for Iraq etc...and have combined this swift boat BS with their Kobe/ Perterson/Jackson trial coverage (which NO ONE ever has is or will care about) to make a giant worthless channel of crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. What's with that anyway? Fox used to have some decent commentary, but now it seems more like some cheap tabloid show complete with conspiracy theories. Now all they need is Batboy and a 300 lb. celebrity.
Lets not get this locked, this forum has been dead lately and I like this topic.
Now what do you people think of the fact that the media is grabbing hold of this thing with it's with typical kung fu death grip for crappy, worthless stories?
I dont know, I just find the whole thing pretty lame... The whole presidential election process sucks, and I wish they'd get rid of it. They should get rid of it, and write a program that picks a random US Citizen over 35 who was born in the US, and that person is the new president. The end.
I dont know, I just find the whole thing pretty lame... The whole presidential election process sucks, and I wish they'd get rid of it. They should get rid of it, and write a program that picks a random US Citizen over 35 who was born in the US, and that person is the new president. The end. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
screw democracy, lets go with RANDOMOCRACY!!!!
.....or not, that'd suck big time, this electorial race has been pretty dirty, and thats not good but we have to have faith in demorcracy its what we have
Lets not get this locked, this forum has been dead lately and I like this topic.
Now what do you people think of the fact that the media is grabbing hold of this thing with it's with typical kung fu death grip for crappy, worthless stories? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, people seem to care about it.
thus, the media reports on it.
the point of a tv show is to draw ratings, news is no different.
If you want more news then read the papper (as they can coever this add AND the latest thingy going on in Iraq)
I don't see what that has to do with this thread...
he fought in vietnam, saw atrocities commited by his fellow soldiers(whether he did any himself remains to be seen, but i don't know that much about any of this, just what i saw from the ad), and came back unnerved enough to talk about it. the way i see it is that these "swift boat veterans" are just ticked that kerry talked about the crimes they'd done, which i find despicable and wrong. the way i see this ad is thus, "wah! wah! mommy mommy kerry tattled on me punish him please mommy!" to which mommy responds "now kerry, nobody likes a tattle tail." except for the american public when voting for a president. i don't know about you guys, but i certainly would prefer someone who's more willing to keep the facts straight and be truthful(however rare taht is in modern politics) over someone who decided not to "betray his country" by revealing teh warcrimes, and i want to emphasize CRIMES, that took place. are we(the US) a nation, or a people, who is willling to only uphold the rules when it benefits us?(recently, this is what i've been seeing, and frankly it scares me) i honestly have no opinion on the kerry vs. bush debate, i don't know enough about it, but even the THOUGHT that someone would call such a thing as revealing war crimes betraying our nation i find disgusting! i can't believe our nation would stand for those kinds of values. if betraying our nation is hiding warcrimes, i'm moving to iraq. our nation has always stood for freedom, justice, and independence. this commercial is so very very wrong on so many levels it makes me sick.
[edit] forgot an important not
and I don't think 4 months of war expiernce means ANYTHING compared to bushe's adminastrative expierence in war time, sure kerry faught a war, but bush has led one. and its been a tuff fight but I think he's doing a pretty good job
i did not say that i support john kerry
i did not say that bush is a worse leader
hell, i said i had no opinion on either side of the argument, but that my argument was with the ad itself.
all i said was that i find the ad dispicable and disgusting because of the way it was done. this quote especially makes me angry...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Paul Gallanti: “He dishonored his country, and, uh, more, more importantly the people he served with. He just sold them out.”<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hell, maybe i'm not reading that right, but what i see is a guy admitting to it, but angry about it being brought out into the open. "he just sold them out" GR!
we are a nation upheld by laws and justice, not by soldiers who commited crimes, but are unwilling to face the charges. the very fact that this ad could exist(as i've said before) makes me sick.
edit, i'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth avenger, i'd like to say again that i do not support either side(mostly because i haven't paid much attention to the race), but the ad caught my eye. this is not about the presidents, it's about the ad.
It seems a valid concern for the Kerry camp to have. If the SBVs are coordinating with the Bush campaign, that's illegal, and regardless of the accuracy of their comments, they just can't do that.
The Swift Boat Veterans have been one of the most visible and vocal groups on either side, and I don't doubt that if such a high-profile group were making the same moves against Bush, and if the Bush campaign suspected affiliation with Kerry in these groups, we'd see similar headlines.
Sorry about the caps, they fit so well <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Having taken a class soley on the Vietnam War, I think I'm a little bit more able to handle some of this.
First off: War atrocities on Vietnam were no more rampant than they were in any war. There are always mistakes, bad calls, and stupid soldiers in any war. The way Vietnam is pictured is that a bunch of stoned white boys showed up, banged some hookers, and killed a bunch of dirty "gooks n commies." (Admins/mods, understand that I'm not being racist, only exploring a common stereotype.)
The reality is that hardly any of these events happened.
But back home in America, with the Flower Children and the Sexual Revolution taking place, war was a big "no no." Soldiers who came back were called "Baby Killers" and often ridiculed by protestors. There was a strong "Us vs Them" mentality. Kerry was "Us" and then changed sides so far that he was actually testifying in front of Congress, making claims that Americans were doing nasty, evil, vile things to poor civilians left and right.
That's why he's hated.
About the commercial? I don't think it really matters all that much. Politics is all about mud throwing, and the candidates aren't the one's throwing all of them mud. The nastiest mud comes from little things like "moveon.org" and the organization we're discussing now. They're the dirtiest bunch. I say move on and wait for the next good ad. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It seems a valid concern for the Kerry camp to have. If the SBVs are coordinating with the Bush campaign, that's illegal, and regardless of the accuracy of their comments, they just can't do that.
The Swift Boat Veterans have been one of the most visible and vocal groups on either side, and I don't doubt that if such a high-profile group were making the same moves against Bush, and if the Bush campaign suspected affiliation with Kerry in these groups, we'd see similar headlines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
AH HA!
wish some one had told me what the articles were ABOUT!
yalls made it seem like the articals were attacking the adds.
thay are focusing on the possible breach of campaign laws......
thank you KFS
This is what I get for not watching TV.
ever.
<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swiftboat/index.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/...boat/index.html</a>
<a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/' target='_blank'>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/</a> (midway down mentions the resignation, same AP article present on Fox News)
Trust me, I've worked campaigns before.
To quote myself, "<i>...at the very least as a small formality.</i>" Even if it's a slip-up, I don't think it's unreasonable to double-check things. Elections are a serious business, and should be treated very seriously. If there's no connection there, the FEC won't cite anyone for illegal actions. Simple as that. I'd just rather see action taken for nothing than nothing done about something, you know?
As KFS said:
If this is a violation of the Law, then it is a rather grevious one.
If not, then it isn't and it can be droped. But untill there is an investigation we don't know.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The latest ad, a 30-second spot released Friday, uses segments from Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971. In the ad, Kerry says, "They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads," "randomly shot at civilians," and "razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Kahn."
The ad <b>does not include Kerry's preface</b>, in which <b>he said he is reporting what <i>others</i> said at a Vietnam veterans conference</b>. Instead, a swift boat group member refers to the statements as "accusations" Kerry made against Vietnam veterans.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the CNN article listed above, emphasis my own. I think I also recall seeing that the SBV group, while accusing Kerry of lying for his awards, has no members who were present during the encounters in question? I could be recalling wrong, so please correct me if I am. If this is correct, it is interesting that one group that was not there accuses him of lying while the group that was there stands by him. *shrug* Ah well. Just wanted to point out the semi-out-of-context clips in the new video.
Liberal news sources like CNN bring it up because they hate to see their star model Kerry getting picked off like a nasty tick. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->