Alien Imbalance?
Niteowl
Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">Why Playtesters don't see it</div> Lets clear the air first with a
"AMAAAAAZING AWESOME mod, fantastic quality, great effort in playtesting and balancing this game". This has to be said cuz that's the main truth of how i feel about the game.
But what has not been said is this:
The reason why many just-pick-up-a-game-of-NS players find/found (is it there anymore) imabalance with the aliens on the short end of the stick, AND the same reason why Playtesters (PTs) don't see it is because of the nature of command.
Example, in a pickup game, where you don't know anyone.
Marines : have a DEFINITE commander, which, as rambos will soon find out, they MUST folllow, or they won't get any neat toys. Collectively everyone gets the same waypoint, a strategy is devised and followed through (hopefully).
Aliens : there is NO definite commander, ppl run willy nilly not forming coherent plans (on better servers with better players, yes there ends up being good communication and excellent execution on the aliens part). Shouts of "who has that hive covered", and "only TWO gorges MAX PLEAASE!!!" clamour thru the collective consciousness of us slimy kharaa.
now, for PT's, u play in a clan, everyone has a coherent focus and understanding of the game, and specific roles. there is no imbalance.
what do y'all think?
PS that's just a thought, and why i've thought i IMPERATIVE for me (if i wanna win more and have more fun) to start/join a clan. if you guys are interested, and are a bit on the older side (mature is what really matters, we don't want any 50 year old rambos <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ), look at my "Old Fogies Unite" posting in the Clan Section.
Niteowl
"AMAAAAAZING AWESOME mod, fantastic quality, great effort in playtesting and balancing this game". This has to be said cuz that's the main truth of how i feel about the game.
But what has not been said is this:
The reason why many just-pick-up-a-game-of-NS players find/found (is it there anymore) imabalance with the aliens on the short end of the stick, AND the same reason why Playtesters (PTs) don't see it is because of the nature of command.
Example, in a pickup game, where you don't know anyone.
Marines : have a DEFINITE commander, which, as rambos will soon find out, they MUST folllow, or they won't get any neat toys. Collectively everyone gets the same waypoint, a strategy is devised and followed through (hopefully).
Aliens : there is NO definite commander, ppl run willy nilly not forming coherent plans (on better servers with better players, yes there ends up being good communication and excellent execution on the aliens part). Shouts of "who has that hive covered", and "only TWO gorges MAX PLEAASE!!!" clamour thru the collective consciousness of us slimy kharaa.
now, for PT's, u play in a clan, everyone has a coherent focus and understanding of the game, and specific roles. there is no imbalance.
what do y'all think?
PS that's just a thought, and why i've thought i IMPERATIVE for me (if i wanna win more and have more fun) to start/join a clan. if you guys are interested, and are a bit on the older side (mature is what really matters, we don't want any 50 year old rambos <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ), look at my "Old Fogies Unite" posting in the Clan Section.
Niteowl
Comments
i've read quite a few balance posts, just haven't come across the social dynamics of a Clan of Playtesters perceiving balance and a group of strangers perceiving imbalance.
sorry again.
I could only wish something like Guides existed when I started to play CS.
Whenever I enter a n00b server I instantly change my name to <dG.NSTUTOR>. Already got on certified commander on my list <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I get what you're trying to say about the fundamental difference between the sides being the ultimate balance flaw, but I kinda lose it from that point on. =|
Darc Myst
_____
if he is marine, he gets order and everyone moves together (cohesion and teamwork win the match, imho).
if he is an alien, there is less order, not so much coordinated attack, therefore, more aliens getting spanked/not using their classes properly, not coordinating.
i'm sayin that it's inherent in the game that new marines will do better than new aliens.
but seasoned marines and seasoned aliens, it's anyone's game. (hm, i guess i DO think it's balanced <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
This mod has a lot of people looking for a Rambo CS-like Aliens expirience without stopping to think about the actuall THOUGHT processes this game has a manditory requrement on. Go back to CS.
LM
Munched right through 4 Marines! Poor n00bs....
This mod has a lot of people looking for a Rambo CS-like Aliens expirience without stopping to think about the actuall THOUGHT processes this game has a manditory requrement on. Go back to CS.
LM<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aaargh. if you want to dump on me, PLEASE at LEAST read the post. that's as annoying as NOT playing NS and saying it's a CS clone, or some crap like that.
and if will actually READ a post u want to dump all over, u'll find that i think the game IS balanced.
2. The fade is too good. The aliens in most cases get it before the marines can upgrade to HMG. And even with an hmg the fade is too good. 3-4 shots (no recharge, i believe you can fire 4.5 shots at max speed without recharging, before you have adrenaline) will kill a marine, if you hit them.
3. A hiding alien at the beginning of the game will easily take out a marine before they notice. This does not have anything to do with how good the marine is. It isn't because the marine isn't a fast enough shooter, it's because the alien kills a standard marine in 2 hits (which will happen in just about 1 second).
4. This leaves us with this:
- Aliens have the advantage in the beginning (skulk).
- Aliens have the advantage mid-game (fade)
- Aliens have the advantage late game (onos)
5. One last point. 2 experienced clans had a scrimmage not too long ago. We played once alien each, and once marine each. Not suprisingly, the alien team won both times within 10-15 minutes.
Two marines will own a Skulk - what are you doing wandering around by yourself, soldier?!
The teams are balanced. You'll get the hang of it. Until then, spend time improving instead of complaining.
The most likely scenario is one dead marine and one dead skulk, and then the marine is all alone in alien territory...
And for the teamwork with marines, they need a good commander. Otherwise it is really hard to work together. The aliens on the other hand don't need one good person in the command chair, they can take care of business by themselves. They are much more versatile.
So, where the marines are dependant on one person, the aliens are not. That is no problem in a clan-game, but it is the main reason why aliens win on a public server. (in my experience, that is...)
One more thing, the fade with lvl 3 carapace is a hard nut to crack, but I'm not saying that the game is unbalanced. I'm just venting my ideas.
We aliens were using some good teamwork "set up chambers <location>" "defend <hive>" "defend <area>"
It was so awesome.. the battle went back and forth but we won every time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marines will own Aliens hard if you don't have experienced (somewhat. mod hasnt been out long) teammates
Aliens will own Marines if you have experienced teammates. And the game will be awesome if everyone knows their roles / strengths / weaknesses.
You can have some truly epic battles if you get into a good server like that. I personally think this mod (game) is great and there's not much more to fix. Period.
There may be a glitch or bug somewhere in the game, but considering the ratio // good points : bad points
I think the good points of the game seriously outweigh the bad.
Those of you complaining about the imbalances. You people should really get into the game (instead of sitting on the forum) and learn tactics. Those of you complaining are usually the ones that have only played one or two games (or just like to be a baby of sorts) and can't find anything better to do than bring it onto the forums. Please, comments to yourself and if you have a problem with "imbalances" post it on the comments/suggestions board and keep it off the General board.
Or maybe make a "Rant" board so people can go there, vent steam, and nobody else will even read it. That might be interesting.
My $.03 1/2 cents
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
*edit* Wheezer posted before me and my complaining of imbalances comments were not directed at him <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Just at all the people that are complaining. If you want something changed so bad, make your own mod! */edit*
actually, observe a couple other posters. They dont know what you're talking about either <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And i did read the post. Didnt catch the clarified version, which i just read. Maybe i overreacted though because you have to realise i read one of these posts every day.
And yes, Skulks are da sheetbomb at Rambo action.
Deep Space Future Gun Action... and now with Skulks!
LM
-rooster
actually, observe a couple other posters. They dont know what you're talking about either <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And i did read the post. Didnt catch the clarified version, which i just read. Maybe i overreacted though because you have to realise i read one of these posts every day.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, cool, as long as we are cool about it.
yeah, i noticed most people didn't want to or try to understand the first post. they just wanted to either vent or defend the balance issue.
i understand the frustration, i've read a billion unbalanced posts too (well, maybe not THAT many <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
again, all i'm saying is that the avg HL player can roxor as marine but gets creamed as an alien, when they first start.
btw, i enjoy the hive mind, it's cool when there's a resource tower being hit, and suddenly, without communicating, u and 2 other skulks are hammering on a bunch of non-HA lmg marines <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
good times, good times
Niteowl
I have seen tons of people whining about how the marines always win, a few minutes later some guy whines about how aliens always win. People think NS is unbalanced because the game has only been out for 11 days, and no-one is really used to the game yet. Once the game has been out a while, and people learn more about the game and how to play it properly, the inbalances will stop and people will continue to play normally.