Calling All Euros...

RapaciousRapacious Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21084Members
edited August 2004 in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">European NS Community needs some help...</div> Before I get onto the matter at hand, I best introduce myself for those of you who don't know me. I'm Rapacious, new clanbase NS Supervisor, ex ktdm and cu@cpl, and now a member of the new clan Origin of Species. I also play for teamUK when a national competition arises. I'd like to think I know the European NS scene quite well, and it's not in a state that I feel a successful gaming community should have - so I'm going to attempt to explain possible reasons for it, and suggest possible solutions.

I'm sure the majority of European clanners will have noticed the GREAT success the last open cup turned out to be. ahem. When two clans fail to produce a team for two months, and then only one clan can produce en eligable lineup for the final things are not what you would call acceptable.

Reasons are really quite simple. Other than folk being on holiday (which of course is completley fine) there is just not enough NS being played between clans in the European scene. There are a good few causes of this, and they need to be explored and counteracted pretty sharpish.

I'm not saying these are 100% correct at any lengths, but you're welcome to give your input.

note: I apologise in advance for the use of pcw instead of scrim, but deal with it <!--emo&;)--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<i><b>There are not enough NS clans around, especially considering the volume of players of the game...</i></b>

Quite possibly true. I see plenty of players, but very few who even consider playing the game on a competetive level, and those that do consider it don't have the clans to join... Reasons for a lack of clans? Lack of competetive NS, which is a spin off of all these causes together...

<i><b>Clans do not know where to get pcws, consider pcwing, or pcw enough...</i></b>

Again, very possible. I've seen plenty of clans on public, and never once seen them in a pcw. Clans need to be aware of the Quakenet IRC network if they are not allready, and the use of <b></b> and <b>#ns.pcw</b> to find opponents. I have already posted on messageboards about this and it has had an effect (even if it be a small one.) I've also asked plenty of people to spread the word around the community in an attempt to get clans playing pcws.

<i><b>Clans do not feel they have the ability to compete with the more active clans...</i></b>

This is not something I can vouch for completley as I don't have much experience on the opposite end of the spectrum. One thing I do notice however, is clans will avoid playing the more skilled teams, which of course is quite understandable. The problem comes from the fact that there is no balance between the skill level of the active clans. The currently more active clans such as mtme, ariadne, os.ns and various mixes have a definate hold over the rest of the community in terms of skill, so if a lowerskilled clan searches for a pcw, they won't find an opponent who is an even match. Subsequently, if they get drilled into the ground by that opponent, they arent going to pcw that much, ESPECIALLY when every active clan is like this.

<i><b>There are no stable competitions for clans to compete in...</i></b>

This introduces the final point that completes a downwardly spiralling cycle, it's a horrible cumulative effect that needs seeing to: Clans have no need to play pcws if there are no competitions to play in. There are no active competitions because clans are unstable. Clans are unstable because matches are not played on a regular basis; players have no reason to stick around. Matches are not played because there are not enough clans activley pcwing... rinse, repeat.

There are obviously more minor factors that influence the situation, but it needs seeing to and fast.

First step, as I have previously mentioned - get the clans that are currently alive (in their minority <!--emo&:(--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) to pcw as activley as possible, mainly via use of <b></b>
and <b>#ns.pcw</b> on Quakenet. This should provide some sort of base for the growth of the community, which in turn should lead on to an active league competition (similar to CAL Perhaps?) which will indeed require a dedicated admin team. Hell, it could even lead to some really decent coverage on amped news and qutie possible some European sites too.

This isn't going to happen overnight, and requires as much help as it can get.

If you are a clan leader or member, get your clan playing as many matches as possible, and tell other clans and friends to get their clan playing. Simple process, and it should eventually yield some decent results.

I look forward to seeing the community grow, post any feedback or ideas you have here. Try and keep this thread on topic as much as possible <!--emo&:)--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->


<i>btw, Nemesis Zer0, you asked me to just add a note that you'd given permission for this post to be added. Here you go </i>


  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited August 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Clans do not know where to get pcws, consider pcwing, or pcw enough...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Unfortunately, there are also a lot of clans that aren't really interested in playing in
    organized matches. They simply enjoy pubbing together.

    The biggest obstacle for the euro ns community right now, is imho the lack of
    good, stable leagues or cups. You could say that the competitive community have
    brought this upon themselves by going inactive and therefore causing mass-
    forfeits, but the fact still remains.
  • RapaciousRapacious Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21084Members
    Indeed, some clans are not interested. The majority are - after all, a clan that dosnt war is just more of a community (ie, yo-clan)

    It's more of a calling for those that are interested to help get the ns clan scene back on its feet.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    edited August 2004
    The guys at maGIK11 have no problem getting a pcw any day of the week they want :S

    [edit] but it does require effort, as youd expect from some form of organisation [/edit]
  • RapaciousRapacious Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21084Members
    Good Good. Get other clans pcwing too. I'm sure you'd agree with me that there is no balance in terms of clans skill in the euro community.
  • gazOzzgazOzz Work&#39;s a ... Join Date: 2003-12-25 Member: 24747Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    You will have our support as clan TwP... Our only problem is as fanatic mentioned above; not finding any stable league or ladder... We are already in ESL... but Im sure you know the state of ladders there...

    Sure we need a well organized, WELL ADMINISTRATED!, NS specific Euro league... The rest will be automatically resolved IMO..

    I hope things gonna be better...
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Also, quite a lot of the clans you might describe as "less experienced" or "less
    skilled" than the rest, have nasty habits of only playing eachother. Over and over
    again. Usually you'll see them scheduling matches days or even weeks
    beforehand, to duke it out with their usual opponent. This makes the community
    seem even more dead than it really is, due to the fact that no-one ever hears
    about these matches.
  • LumpLump Join Date: 2003-04-16 Member: 15558Members
    everyone has noticed that the EU NS scene is almost dead, i saw to do something about it a while ago.

    for the last few months ive been setting up to create a large NS EU league with help from . but i can't do much until this new patch is released.

    hopefully i can get a large interest from the EU clan scene and get clans to become more active.

    also i don't see any high standard EU public servers, most tend to be poor quality servers/poor skill level or poorly admined making most of the claned players not willing to play and making the lesser skilled players take much longer to improve.

    i'd love to see the old warservers respawned with admins of the same caliber "/me wants cookymonster back <!--emo&:D--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->"

    something like this would make a very effective improvement in the EU NS scene.

    also small things like the newly improved #ns.gather channel would hopefully promote the idea's of clan play in the EU NS scene to non-clanners.

    but like Rap said. its going to take effort from a lot of people.
  • RapaciousRapacious Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21084Members
    In response to gazozz, just get pcwing - it'll help enormously before we can get some stable competitions going.

    As for public servers, I can have a word with Ned from WarServers and see if i can get him to plop a pub server up. Im sure he'd support you idling in #warservers too <!--emo&:)--><img src='' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    I think we need many more active clans before we get a league going, allthough the new Clanbase Open Cup will start soon, so idle #clanbase.ns and await some news. Signups will open around 20th August.

    I should stop pimping channels.
  • LumpLump Join Date: 2003-04-16 Member: 15558Members
    as ZiGGY^ said, we get pcw's quite often with a little help from our Warbot. if you want the warbot just join our channel #maGIK11 and talk to mercior. you'd be suprised how much it helps.
  • LumpLump Join Date: 2003-04-16 Member: 15558Members
    for the league, the way i saw it=

    there are plenty of clans about but they dont contact each other and many people prioritise other things not expecting to get pcw's.

    when the patch is released NS will have a boost of activity like it always does and i plan on having the league up and running soon after the patch is released, most is sorted already, we are just waiting.

    as for the warservers server, that would be EXELENT but you will need a high caliber of active admins to represent and control the server properly, it would take effort,

    #maGIK11 are also trying to create a high standard teamplay server enforcing communication and participation towards the team's efforts, but we are having trouble getting the server active to do this >_<
  • RapaciousRapacious Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21084Members
    edited August 2004
    You can't really get a high standard of teamplay on a public server. wont happen. period. its a shame.
  • LumpLump Join Date: 2003-04-16 Member: 15558Members
    old WS did, i'm sure with enough effort in the right place it can be done again
  • rnnrnn Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22756Members, Constellation
    I think one of the problems (and its always been this way) is that bad clans/clan that concider themselves to be bad, are afraid of losing.

    Im not saying very very new clans should play the best there is but they should after a couple of pcws give it a try. You see one clan searching for avarage skill lvl and one searching for low.

    The low skilled one dont want to play the avarage because they think they'll get owned(this may lead to that none of the clans get an opponent), but it hardly makes any difference, you notice when you play vs a good clan if your tactic/teamplay really works, and you can ask the clan what they think you did wrong (if you need more practise or better tactics).

    So basically what im saying is, play whoever you can find ;p
  • LumpLump Join Date: 2003-04-16 Member: 15558Members
    only exception is trialers.. its very hard to tell the skill level of a trialer when your getting mullered.

    i'm sure all clans will play clans greater skill level than them but sometimes the skill difference is obviously pointless.. needs more a link in mid range skilled clans.
  • ZykoZyko Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11653Members
    edited August 2004
    i say: SPLIT UP THE PROIES.. dont gather em up into one clan..
  • whoamiwhoami Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20374Members
    I think if clans pcw with each other, they would get a lot better. Maybe the ns community needs some spice and some toast. Which means that everyone needs to get along with each other and not be afraid to pcw other clans. Pcw is really the key, and I truly blieve it stands for "Power in Competition W."

    People just be psyched and happy to pcw--I think attitude and interclanial unity is a big part in this.
  • kolokolkolokol Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9166Members
    Some sort of irc channel where clanners can meet would be good. I think we could use a place for ppl to see whos out there and a plae for players to come who want to join a clan. Im in a fledgeling clan, team hostile ans we could use a few more commited players but there dam hard to attract, most of the recruits drift away. Pcw's are a problem also, unless you have your own high quality server as mentioned above then its hard to trainup, anyone got any recomendations about how to train when your not perhaps ready for pcw?
  • VertyVerty Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18884Members
    kolokol, is a place for recruitment if im right, also a place where clans advertise for pcws a lot too.
  • wallerwaller Join Date: 2004-04-28 Member: 28281Members
    People starting new clan's doesn't really help much.

    I started a clan because i didn't see many around, and i'm not exacly pro.

    However i got a good few top pubbers but we struggle to play any good clans and it does get extremly boring.
    But sign me up to w/e league things you got (PM Me or something when it's done) ill shove my clan on it, as there all euro.
  • whoamiwhoami Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20374Members
    a new irc channel sounds like a good idea. Maybe the community can make a super-duper-channel which would attract not just euros, but amerios and canadios as well. So, we could call learn, pcw, and communicate with each other. It would really make the community appear larger and more active, and everyone would make a lot of new friends:)
  • myrigthmyrigth Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13270Members
  • whoamiwhoami Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20374Members
    That's not a bad idea, if we could somehow unite the cs community with the ns community...
  • ZykoZyko Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11653Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-whoami+Aug 9 2004, 11:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (whoami @ Aug 9 2004, 11:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's not a bad idea, if we could somehow unite the cs community with the ns community... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    !!1 no plx.. just if they get more mature..
  • DrackaDracka Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9906Members
    It's holidays goddamn! In Finland they are ending in a week. And people aren't so interested in ns anymore, might be lack of updates.
    For those clans who are afraid to lose against good clans, I am sorry, only way to learn to play is to lose.
    I could play matches but I don't have an active clan.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    You can't really get a high standard of teamplay on a public server. wont happen. period. its a shame
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sadly its a total lie. I'm a Euro player, and I game on Lunixmonster, which is still a pub server, and also where there generally IS a high standard of teamplay.

    Most Euro servers are full of idiots and people I could beat blindfolded. Hence, I go to another server, suffer a higher ping, but get a more challenging and REWARDING game without having to suffer any abuse.
  • amarcamarc Guide Scribe Join Date: 2003-06-03 Member: 16982Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited August 2004
    The problems that are causing this inactivity (could be problems with this version, no competitions, attitude of people in the scene...) are not going to be solved by a forum post. Eventually they will no longer be issues any more (e.g. next update release, more competitions, influx of players due to ns being a "Steam Game") or they will continue to haunt the scene, but these problems are inherant to competitive NS (there was a strikingly similar post made by members of the American scene a while back).

    If you really care about promoting clan activity a league with a structure similar to the <a href='' target='_blank'>CTFCL</a> would be a good bet, as it allows clans to play weekly matches with others of their level. Wheras a ClanBase OpenCup might promote activity from clans for a 3-4 weeks during their group games but when most of the clans get knocked out after that there is no real incentive for them to practice for the Cup.

    However good luck, it's nice to see people taking some initiative and really doing something for their scene.
  • whoamiwhoami Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20374Members
    WTH are u talking about
    most pubs don't have teamplay
    many are new to the game or don't understand it that well
    and why would you want to "make your ping suffer"--nothing is worth a bad ping tbh, especially in ns
  • cheeZcheeZ Join Date: 2003-11-15 Member: 22948Members
    Well, maybe we should start a league. - just take ideas from currently popular leagues... the perfect example being cal, which is ran very efficiently.

    2 divisions, League table "qualifications" : which leads to brackets, and knockout play.

    Games played weekly etc. All we need is a little dedication.

    (i was thinking of asking call to add another division within the ns section. like a euro only section, played on euro servers for euro teams. might be interesting)

    A few people have attempted to create leagues, like the uknsl, ns-league etc. but often it seems they remain without a community behind it, and with little interest or clans to back them up.

    Recently, however, the cup had around 20 'active' clans signed up, unfortunately only 16 are allowed to play, so it was first come first serve. (my team was one of the few to sign up late, along with recoil.ns and a couple others.)

    20 teams is enough for two divisions?

    Surely we can work something out?

    #naturalselection (Qnet : nick; cheeZ) if anyone is interested, or has ideas. just grab my attention.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    Actually I'd take a good playing experience over ping any day. Sure, it means i'm somewhere between 100 and 150, instead of about 40 on a Euro server, but its still playable, my opponents aren't smacktards, and I don't have to worry about uncooperative players on my side.

    At the end of the day I think you'd be a fool to have 40 ping and thrash entire servers solo against 135 ping and actually having a *fun* and *challenging* time.

    However, if NS was a mindless fps game then it'd be much different. I go for the low pings everytime with Unreal, Quake, etc.
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation
    Like Dracka teh ***** said, its holidays. Atleast it is around here, no one wants to play that much on summer anyways. I believe in a month or so theres bunch of clans pcw'ing again. Or atleast i hope so. :I
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