Catpacks - Adjustments
Sewlek
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">give them more sense</div> Catpacks are unused and not worth the Res. In most games there even aren´t researched anymore (so handgrenades aren´t) and no commander want´s to waste 4 Res only for a funky sound. BLINGGGgggg....
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Make them useful!</span>
I want to list now some tweaks that should be done and a description why they are necessary:
<b>- lower costs to 3:</b>
Compared to the affects of the catpack, it isn´t worth 4 Resources. it´s better to drop 2 Medpacks or 4 Ammopacks to support a marine. 4 Res for nearly nothing is a pain in the ****.
<b>- give marines a small spore resistance</b>
Every marine during the catpack effect should be more resistant against spores, meaning that they take less damage from them (1/2?). Why? Because a commander has no possibilies to support a marine directly when he gets spored (only with welders and medspam).
As counter against spores still remains the HA, but the catpacks would help a little bit in early games (you would be able to drop catpacks when the first lerks would appear)
Spore resistance is only a small tweak and wouldn´t change gameplay to much, because the comm still needs to drop medpacks.
<b>- increase build speed</b>
This one is really discussable, cause it can change gameplay dramatically. But increasing the build speed would just be a logical effect, isn´t it. And it would make the catpack more usefull.
<b>- decrease reload time</b>
no more to say about this, cause you already discussed this topic 1000 times.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Make them useful!</span>
I want to list now some tweaks that should be done and a description why they are necessary:
<b>- lower costs to 3:</b>
Compared to the affects of the catpack, it isn´t worth 4 Resources. it´s better to drop 2 Medpacks or 4 Ammopacks to support a marine. 4 Res for nearly nothing is a pain in the ****.
<b>- give marines a small spore resistance</b>
Every marine during the catpack effect should be more resistant against spores, meaning that they take less damage from them (1/2?). Why? Because a commander has no possibilies to support a marine directly when he gets spored (only with welders and medspam).
As counter against spores still remains the HA, but the catpacks would help a little bit in early games (you would be able to drop catpacks when the first lerks would appear)
Spore resistance is only a small tweak and wouldn´t change gameplay to much, because the comm still needs to drop medpacks.
<b>- increase build speed</b>
This one is really discussable, cause it can change gameplay dramatically. But increasing the build speed would just be a logical effect, isn´t it. And it would make the catpack more usefull.
<b>- decrease reload time</b>
no more to say about this, cause you already discussed this topic 1000 times.
Comments
and reload actually reloads faster.
hows that for some fun adjustments
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Make them useful!</span>
I want to list now some tweaks that should be done and a description why they are necessary:
<b>- lower costs to 3:</b>
Compared to the affects of the catpack, it isn´t worth 4 Resources. it´s better to drop 2 Medpacks or 4 Ammopacks to support a marine. 4 Res for nearly nothing is a pain in the ****.
<b>- give marines a small spore resistance</b>
Every marine during the catpack effect should be more resistant against spores, meaning that they take less damage from them (1/2?). Why? Because a commander has no possibilies to support a marine directly when he gets spored (only with welders and medspam).
As counter against spores still remains the HA, but the catpacks would help a little bit in early games (you would be able to drop catpacks when the first lerks would appear)
Spore resistance is only a small tweak and wouldn´t change gameplay to much, because the comm still needs to drop medpacks.
<b>- increase build speed</b>
This one is really discussable, cause it can change gameplay dramatically. But increasing the build speed would just be a logical effect, isn´t it. And it would make the catpack more usefull.
<b>- decrease reload time</b>
no more to say about this, cause you already discussed this topic 1000 times. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lowered costs = yes
Spore resistance = nah
Increased build speed = good idea
Decrease reload time = Not gonna happen unless someone makes animations that are approx 1/4 faster
and reload actually reloads faster.
hows that for some fun adjustments <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can already bhop with cat packs if you're holding nothing heavier than an LMG/pistol.
Not good! Catpacks are here to provide rapid firepower and a faster movement. Just switch the Upgrade itself to the Armory and make it cheaper (about 12 ress) and decrease the required ress to drop one to 2, ahhh and dont forget they should drain health over a certain period of time (like the Stimpacks in StarCraft <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
After the Standard (light armor + lmg) marine gets nerfed Catpacks should be a earlygame <b>must</b>.
one of the best ideas I heard about the catpacks problem <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I like it! But therefor we have to increase the research cost (30 - 40) and adjust the time you need for researching.
Maybe 40 seconds and researchable in the armory. (so you still can do normal upgrades in arms lab)
wow thats even more effective then armour!
= bad.
also the build time is good now, lots of marines can build a pg in no time less then 5 secs.
yesssss
speed up reload......
hehehehe
pardon me as I destroy your base with my GL <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
yes, it makes sense, and would be nice, it also seems sort of a scary thought with weapons like the GL (and posibly shotty)
wow thats even more effective then armour!
= bad.
also the build time is good now, lots of marines can build a pg in no time less then 5 secs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah but its only 8 seconds, while armor lasts a whole spawn
It really doesn't make sense of firing faster...
Whether you are drunk or sober, holding down a finger on a gun will fire at the same rate...
BUT then again gameplay > realism <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You CAN use Meds +welders, so where is the problem?
<b>- increase build speed</b>
like that, it would give new tactical possibilitys.
<b>- decrease reload time</b>
oh yes, pls
Of course the higher fire-rate should be taken out, so that the costs fit (I prefer 2 res).
And btw. pls take Handgranades out of the game, they are worthless and doesnt add anything new and interesting to the game. Better Nades would only unbalance the game more
And most pubbers dont use a welder on a light marine.
You cannot build something as a comm too ^^ <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The marine still would take damage, but only half of it and during battle you dont have the time to weld the whole time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The risk would be that the lerk becomes a much less effective counter against rines in a siege position
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And most pubbers dont use a welder on a light marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a complete different problem and has not much to do with this "problem" imo.
As for the decreased reload time: no. No. NOOOOOOES!! GL spam is already soo, soo horrible for those poor little skulks and gorges <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What happened to the original ns dev modellers/artists. I'm guessing they all left. So this means ns is without any. That's kinda disappointing.
Make each round worth two shots (value is rounded up after the catpack wears off so you won't have 35.5 bullets left)
or
Allow you eat into your reserve (unloaded) ammo even after you empty your clip
Make each round worth two shots (value is rounded up after the catpack wears off so you won't have 35.5 bullets left)
Allow you eat into your reserve (unloaded) ammo even after you empty your clip <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this + GL = GG
Make each round worth two shots (value is rounded up after the catpack wears off so you won't have 35.5 bullets left)
Allow you eat into your reserve (unloaded) ammo even after you empty your clip <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this + GL = GG <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
True... Don't make it work on GLs?
I think that 4 res is fine, they are powerful, but most commanders dont use them. A shotgun rush with catpacks = dead hive in about 2 seconds flat. Catpacks are very good, but a lot of comms just plain suck and stick to the same old crap like trying to put turrets at marine start and all the hives. Catpacks only cost 20 res, research very fast, and make for some hive own and alien ownage. Fades and especially onos drop like crazy against catpack'ed marines, especially since they usually dont expect it.
Honestly, how many of you have had a good comm that actually used catpacks effectively?
Now, on the arms lab, everyone knows you get armor 1 first because it lets marines take an extra hit from skulks, lerks and fades. But the gun upgrades don't help marines against skulks because of the low life of skulks (70/10) and the low increase in damage delt by the lmg (each upgrade of guns adds 1 point of damage). So why do people still get gun upgrades? As insurance against fades. But catpacks are better insurace, and they work against skulks, the only downside is that they cost res to use. However, the cost of a catpack is less then many would think. A catpacked marine can often avoid getting hit since they run almost as fast as skulks. As such, you are saving 4 res in medkits. Also, the kill a marine gets pays for most of the cost of the catpack (1-3 res for kill). Res for kills is one reason why the catpack costs 4. If it costs less then it is too easy to break. An unupgraded marine that is catpacked can easily kill an unupgraded skulk and if res for kills pays for the catpack then the conflict didn't cost the marine economy anything.
As for catpacks in co, they are much less useful. First off, you get them after the fight is over, when the only effect you can make use of is the increased movement speed. Catpacks would be better if you got them when you could "see" an alien, just like the old beta test scans.
and reload actually reloads faster.
hows that for some fun adjustments <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
would be cool <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To not influence the marines "economy", it would be just a logical deduction to increase the damage absorbtion when a marine is drugged. This would increase the posibility that the marine would kill the enemy and the commander used his 4 Res with sense.
To not influence the marines "economy", it would be just a logical deduction to increase the damage absorbtion when a marine is drugged. This would increase the posibility that the marine would kill the enemy and the commander used his 4 Res with sense.