Siege Cannons?

XCan · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">overpowered?</div> Lately especially after the patch I've seen the siege being used like crazy. Usually they put lots of marines outside a hive, build up some sentries then put 4 siege cannons. The aliens have no chance since it's going through the wall and taking the spawned aliens with them. I myself think the siege is completely overpowered as it is now, maybe lowering the range would help?

Slycaster · November 2002

4 siege cannons? Whoever is commanding is insane. That's a total of 150 RP, and a TON of time to build. If the aliens havn't realized there are marines outside of it by that time, they deserve to have thier hive leveled. You should always keep tabs on marine advancements as aliens. Whether it be via parasite, or a cloaked scout.

Spending 150+19(x) depending on your sentry turret amount is an extremely costly thing for the marines. If the aliens were to stop it, that would seriously hurt the marines. Siege is a double-edged sword.

Stormeh · November 2002

Well I think siegecannons are a littler bit too powerfull, i mean the marines already got the grenadelauncher and the HMG wich both are verry good at tearing up alien bases. A good idea would be to limit the amount of siegecannons per turretfactory to one or maybe two.

And it isnt that hard to set up a siegecannon outside a alien hive, just walk in with a couple of marines to secure the area, the build the turretfactory and put up some regular turrets first for protection. And the just smack up a siegecannon or two and wait till the hive is gone and move in with your marines.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

MutantMFM · November 2002

I do that alot as a commander in Ns its a easier way to destroy a entire hive base.

Reaper · November 2002

The worst part is, you can just find the wall that's adjacent to the hive and put your cannons here. Most of the time its not anywhere close to the entrances to the hive, getting to it, finding, and destroying it may take too long for the aliens.

And spending that much money on an attack like that is a small price to pay for getting rid of the alien's third hive. It almost wins the game for you.

YODAThe_Preacher · November 2002

If you are wasting your time building seige cannons then the aliens should head into your main base, destroy your spawns, bend you over your ammo depot, and give it to your commander because he deserves it. Then you can start over having wasted all your resource on destroying one hive and hopefully find a new comm.

While the seige cannon is powerful it is no match for a solid strategy. And the aliens are quick enough and strong enough to handle it.

-The Preacher

Reaper · November 2002

realize, you don't do this without a defended base and a phase gate back there.

good commanders utilize phase gates.

Mr_Special_ED · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (<YODA>The Preacher @ Nov 6 2002, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you are wasting your time building seige cannons then the aliens should head into your main base, destroy your spawns, bend you over your ammo depot, and give it to your commander because he deserves it. Then you can start over having wasted all your resource on destroying one hive and hopefully find a new comm.

While the seige cannon is powerful it is no match for a solid strategy. And the aliens are quick enough and strong enough to handle it.

-The Preacher</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This is IF they're even allowed to get through a no doubt TIGHT MARINE defense.

I agree with a poster. Turret factories should have a maximum of 2-3 turrets in its line of sight. If you must, set up 4 factories together, and build 8-12 turrets. But unlimited turrets to shred any incoming aliens is insane, and really not fair.

Necro · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kilmster @ Nov 6 2002, 08:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>with the changes in the patch, using siege is really probably the only way to take out a hive at the moment; things such as hmg and ha and what have you are just too expensive.\\

but really, this is a good thing; its far more risky than just waltzing in with a pack of 5 heavies with gl/hmg.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
not really just was in a game it cost like 400 rp's to get everyone stocked...half men with HA's and shotguns or HMG's and 1 or 2 with GL's, we easily level 2 bases like that. took maybe 2 tries in all.

Ahnteis · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr. Special ED @ Nov 6 2002, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>This is IF they're even allowed to get through a no doubt TIGHT MARINE defense.

I agree with a poster. Turret factories should have a maximum of 2-3 turrets in its line of sight. If you must, set up 4 factories together, and build 8-12 turrets. But unlimited turrets to shred any incoming aliens is insane, and really not fair.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
2-3?
1 fade can take out 2-3 turrets alone.

J2002R · November 2002

You know, seriosuly, this is what I do it works 50% of the time, if my team has cleared out somewhat of the aliens infront of the hive...

I grab a HMG n' JetPacks... Run like hell, I see a skulk, up in the roof, unload 50 shots, skulk dead, moving on to hive, oo **obscenity** 2 chambers and a def chamber... I Load 120 shots into them, up in roof, reload. I then run straight into hive room, BLAST AWAY 1, maybe 2 rounds, hive dead, call for ammo at commander... Hive down Hive down, aliens got another huge problem.

Now remeber, every time I do this it works 50% of the time, it's more or less rambo style, and they got no chance of defending themselves exept Chambers and skulks IN THE ROOF. Otherwise they only get a bite out of me... Now this is the best way to take out a hive, you gotta try this sometime, but it takes practice to make perfect. If it didn´t work the first time btw, just grab same gear, use warpgate, and you'll be there 20 seconds after last attack, they got NO CHANCE! So basicly, **obscenity** the <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> s and use some <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> skills. Yep... But this is kinda lame sometimes too, and it may **obscenity** off the aliens, I usualy do this when my teammates SUCK and I have to do basicly everything, otherwise this would be crazy style playing.

Mr_Special_ED · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>2-3?
1 fade can take out 2-3 turrets alone.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Possibly, but he will get ripped to shreds there is no doubt about this. And when have you ever seen a FACTORY with JUST 2-3 turrets. Usually the only good strategy is to send your men in, have them take a bite, then send them back out after they die. 2-3 I think is a DAMN fair number. It's not realistic to think that a FACTORY can control the mechanics of SEVERAL machines without some slowdown.

If we MUST have unlimited TURRETS, make response time lessen as the turret moves further from the factory.

Wardancer · November 2002

a single fade can easily take out a couple of turrets if he has some kinde of cover to regenrate energy behind....

but yea to limit siege turrets would be very nice... like 1-2 for each advanced factory or so.... but if the marien team move up with a couple of marines to secure the area and im close with my fade... i tru to get to an position as elevated as posible call for backup and start bombing the with either bile boms or acid rockets and if hte get to close i just blink away and repeat till backup comes.... i havent been siege rushed once yet. i ahev only had some resource nodes camped by siege but thats not hat big of a hassle

Khaim · November 2002

the only reason your HMG+jetpack idea works J2002R is because they don't build any defenses in the hive chamber itself, they build out in the hallways around it.
I've gone gorge before and placed 3 O chambers and 2 Defense in the hive chamber and ended up taking out 4 jetpacking fools with just that.

Asraniel · November 2002

I dont think that the siege turret is overpowered.
But i think it should have a limit of 2 siege turrets per factory and the range should be decrased a little bit, then its ok.

J2002R · November 2002

First of all I've never ever seen someone go in themselves and take out a hive, I can get trough a vent get up in a bar in the hive (when they got defences there) and bomb with a GL and call for ammo from comm and health, takeing out a hive for me is no problem, it is a teameffort to defend however.

Violent_Hippie · November 2002

Well...about fades taking out Turrets... I was playing today, and the opponents had 2 fades, who ripped about 12 turrets apart... After that, the entire team had evolved to onosses (4 of 'em, OMFG!), they came in and fragged the hell out of us ! So much for turrets... How they did this ? They built some defensive chambers next to our base, where the fades could resup inbetween attacks... Restock on Health `n stuff... We had a pretty n00b commander, and he didn`t give us any armor at all... He focussed on building turrets :/

Suraman · November 2002

I had an idea that when <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> attacks they should leave a trail or something so you know what general direction they're in. Otherwise you see your hive getting hit and you gotta wander around until you stumble onto the outpost that contains the <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'>

YODAThe_Preacher · November 2002

Thankfully now the new patch has made it so that if the turret factory is destroyed, the turrets stop functioning. Excellent Idea. Now you only need to take out one structure. This means that in order to build a single seige marines need almost 75 res and another 50 if they want a backup factory. Kudos to whoever had this idea.

Problem Solved

-The Preacher

MbOoGiE · November 2002

siege cannons are a pain in the **obscenity**, but that's what it should be being that it costs so much.

we had marines trying to take over our hive and built a siege cannon right next to it, and was destroying a lot of our defenses. this usually happens with your third hive and marines are desperately trying to get rid of your onos and bile bombs. 2 hive alien abilities are more than enough to circle around, kill the marines setting up, and destroy the siege cannon. i've played on numerous maps where this happened, and one time was a lerk backup to a couple of fades acid rocketing the turret factory, and another as a gorg giving healing spray and setting up 'healing corners' so that our fades could back off and get a heal.

like all good games, it leaves you with numerous options... let them take the hive and take out their main base? or recover the hive? sometimes it's not worth recovering the hive when your close to victory... give a few lerks, fades, and onos the chance to hole up the marines in their main base and you'll eventually turtle them to the ground. of course this also comes with repurcussions... take over the main base, and you might find that a good commander has sneakily planned for a second base in your third hive. now instead of holing up a marine base and taking 5 minutes to kill them with hive 3 abilities, your now left with trying to defeat a marine base hunkered down in one of your hives with "only" hive 2 abilities...

the game is balanced. pre-patch it required smart alien teamwork to just even the field. now it's almost a pre-requisite for a knowledgeable commander to win. you can't win against an organized alien team (which most are now) with a marine commander who does nothing but the basics.

J2002R · November 2002

Saaad... I wanted to hear another comment on my "Hive Taking Out" skills, anyone?

Wrayth · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (J2002R @ Nov 7 2002, 01:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Saaad... I wanted to hear another comment on my "Hive Taking Out" skills, anyone?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I think the aliens you were fighting against needed some work. As an alien gorge, I tend to start by grabbing as many resource towers I can safely find, and then run back to the hive and fill the room with as many off-turrets as I can. Then I build a few defensive turrets and then spend a lot of time wandering around the base and sticking offensive turrets everywhere. Meanwhile a teammate has found the second hive and has done the same there, and we can start dumping sensory turrets in a few corners. If we're lucky, the rest of the team has successfully stopped the marines getting to the third hive and we can take that one back, otherwise we spend the time taking it back, and then turtling the marines main base.

My point is, you wuld have found it hard to take one of my hives that quickly. I'm pretty sure the mass of towers in the room would have slowed you down long enough for some teammates to get back there and make you stop, especially with the fade's latest turn of speed.

Also, aliens, don't forget to stick offensive turrets in dark corners. Sometimes the marines don't see them long enough for them to get in the first couple of shots. Webs are VERY useful, especially when you stick them just above the ground right where a flatfooted marine is about to step in rage of an offensive tower <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Khaim · November 2002

whoever says the seige range needs to be decressed is a fool, try playing commander mode, you practicly have to stuff seige cannons into the hive room to kill it, and in some maps (like hera) the hive room may be too big and you have to build it in the hive room or try to take it out w/ marines.

P.S. noramly the rounds are balanced, but on large maps like caged, the marines get OWNED ever time.

Mobay · November 2002

Why is it that the humans have siege?? well then why dont aliens have too? the structure could look like the one from starcraft... u know the thing that sends its arm down ithe the ground and then pop up a nother place "pokking" the units. that would only be fair if the alien's had a counter turret to the siege..

But anyway no one will fix this i guess so its back to skulking around.. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Unknown · November 2002

It's always quite obvious what kind of fan each poster is just by the way each post is written and also by the main argument of each post. 'SEIGE WEAPONS BLOW' or something along those lines is of course an alien player while 'NO WAY' would be a marine fan. I'm trying to stay objective as I can with this game, and i was in version 1.00, but now, it's just too much. This new patch absolutely obliterates the marine force. A summary of balance changes basically would go like this: marines buildings made more expensive, marines advanced weapons made weaker, fade made stronger. Taking down a turret factory stops all turrets from operating? I am quite shocked now on one of those rare occasions whenever I see a marine team win. Usually the reason is why they win is because the "auto-balance" doesn't even work. The seige technique does seem so unfair, but think of it this way, if you had a competent team that would all attack at once, how could you possibly lose? (rhetorical) Imagine the kind of resources marines would lose do to that attack too. Alien Domination. I'm waiting for 1.02. Until then...

<b>DIE YOU ALIEN SCUM</b> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> =me

J2002R · November 2002

Wrayth, first of all, you are so wrong in what you are doing. As alien the whole point is to stop the marines from advancing in the map while you cap every fuc-king thing you see on the map, but you always, always, always ought to cap the resources second of their base, I mean, they got one in base, then one more, but the one after that should be sieced first, and then I move in stopping them from first building the second resource at all, and then from getting to the third (that should have pretty good defence at this point). I'm the best skulk in beginning ever... One time I raped a whole team, you can read it in the "Best kill ever" thread... Anyway, raping a hive is still to easy, at least in my opinion, my team wins cuz of me, if I change team the game can turn totaly, and that proves it, WITH FAIR TEAMS, just so you don't think it's that.

Siege Cannons?

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