Rfk Is Fubar
Cpt_Krunch
Join Date: 2003-08-22 Member: 20077Members
Join Date: 2003-08-22 Member: 20077Members
<div class="IPBDescription">remove it..</div> Seriously, RFK only purpose is to make rambo aliens even ramboer and res hump.
And what is the logic in turrets killing helpless skulks and gaining res.
I seriously think RFK is why end games never end since rines can camp their base with 1 RT and gais lots of res killing aliens trying to kill the base.
ITS FUBAR !!!!!!
we were fine without it before....
ouf that felt goood.....
And what is the logic in turrets killing helpless skulks and gaining res.
I seriously think RFK is why end games never end since rines can camp their base with 1 RT and gais lots of res killing aliens trying to kill the base.
ITS FUBAR !!!!!!
we were fine without it before....
ouf that felt goood.....
Comments
i dont know if this was successful or not but thats why rfk is in the game.
I often try to tell my team not to engage marines unless they have a good chance of wining the fight. If they lissen marines tend to be slow tech wise. Stay away from the marines, stay on there nodes thats my thinking as a skulk.
Marine RFK definitely should go, it's unncessary and doesn't really fit with the team concept at all. Alien RFK seems logical in concept but my only beef with it is that it gives more res to skulks than Gorges, which seems rather backwards. With res going faster to the aliens that get kills than the ones that build, permagorging is a waste of time in even moderately large games.
Marines do not really need it to encourage capturing RT's.
So yes; removing RFK from marines sounds good to me.
Marines do not really need it to encourage capturing RT's.
So yes; removing RFK from marines sounds good to me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you can't really remove it for one team only.
I guess fixing the aliens RES system and removing RFK would do wonders
I rambo when the commander isnt issuing orders or doesnt know what hes doing. Its flustrating playing marines when the commander doesnt communicate. Usually ramboing off is the only way nodes are killed and pgs are built.
in the first few minutes rines should be hunting alien rt.. if comm gives me no order.. thats what im doing, hunting rt.
Reduce Kharaa RFK to one Res per kill, and that one resource gets put into the resource pool for even distribution.
Reduce Kharaa RFK to one Res per kill, and that one resource gets put into the resource pool for even distribution. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Genius! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Why not? If i remember right each side was going to have something the other did't.
Marine RFK definitely should go, it's unncessary and doesn't really fit with the team concept at all. Alien RFK seems logical in concept but my only beef with it is that it gives more res to skulks than Gorges, which seems rather backwards. With res going faster to the aliens that get kills than the ones that build, permagorging is a waste of time in even moderately large games. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya gorges do got the short end of the stick. Unless they got some well placed OCs. Even then they normaly don't get as many kills as Skulks and Fades do. Maybe give them a little bigger cut of the res from the RTs they built? It would get people off there butts to build those RTs since it helps "them" a little if they build it.
So if they are meant for attacking, then why are they on the defending side in combat?
In my opinion Aliens should camp and ambush so that rines don´t get the nodes they need.
this hinderance of the marine resflow should be enough benefit for them (and even leads to more struggeling for nodes).
There had to be more tactic involved instead of lone ramboing!
Removing Marine RFK is probably an option, but you'd want to see how B5 balance looks first. Moreover, I fail to see how a Gorge benefits the team more than a Skulk killing advancing marines - did I miss something, and Natural Selection became a game about building structures? No, lets just face it : You don't kill marines, you lose. Building structures is no means in itself, and due to the fact that you should focus on containing/slowing down marines and keeping them from pressuring you effectively, construction should generally be done as efficiently as possible, and that means <b>as little as possible</b>.
This has 2 positive effects :
- It keeps NS a strategy game on a ressource level. How and what you spend is extremely important - doing ineffective things (dropping RTs late, throwing down mass OCs) will hurt your team more than it helps. Increasing gorge resflow seriously would just go towards removing the thought out of making due with the extremely limited budget.
- It keeps people doing the <i>fun things</i>. And I hate to tell you this, but fighting static defense and foiling it with decoy structures isn't a whole lot of interesting fun. Neither is being Gorge and hitting "e" just to get an artifical feeling of usefulness. Alien vs Marine gameplay on the other hand is fun, and thats what we end up doing under the current system.
this would be an idea. This would bring back the "fatty hunt" from earlier versions <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And I tell you: It was funny to hunt the fatty <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OOOoooOoOOOOOoooOOOOoOOOOooOO.... I like! It shouldn't be ALL the res though - just a hefty chunk of it. You should get some reward for killing a marine.
What should be changed and are good ideas:
<b>- Remove RFK from marines (more importance on RTs to increase the tactical element for marines)</b>
<b>- Lower RFK for aliens to 1 res and all gained resourced through kills are distributed to the gorge(s). (more importance for the fatty, skulks still rush because they would help the team with kills they make and wont have to worry about "feeding" the marines with res)</b>
Lower RFK for skulks/gorges. Leave it the same for the high lifeforms.
0-1 Res for skulk.
0-1 Res for gorge.
1-3 Res for lerk/fade/onos.
Turrets give 0 res.
Gorges get 3 res per kill, always.
Here's how it would work:
For marines, it's fairly straight forward. Whenever a marine kills an alien, the commander gets res equal to the gestation cost, with the exception of the skulk (which will give 0 res despite taking 2 res to gestate into).
There might be some issues with the ONOS being too easy to kill, and I'm all for beefing it up but that's another topic.
For aliens, it's just a little bit trickier. First let me explain how the cost system would work. For RFK purposes, items that are "recoverable" like GLs, welders, etc after a marine dies will have its cost lowered by 50%. Non-recoverable items (JP, HA) cost the full amount. When an alien kills a marine, the team gets res equal to the total cost of the equipment the marine was carrying at the time. The res is then equally distributed between the whole team. As an added bonus, if those recoverable items (weapons, welders, etc) do NOT get recovered by the marines in time (i.e. you successfully guard it) and disappears, the alien who made the kill will get the missing 50% of the res from the recoverable item. Note that if you kill a marine say...a shotgun and another marine picks it up (oh no! This shottie's empty!) and you kill the second marine, your team will recieve 5 res TWICE, and if that weapon is not recovered, you will receive an additional 5 res. That's why the 50% penalty was introduced, to balance the fact you can keep receiving RFK from the same item.
This system will make it worthwhile to actually kill something dangerous, while encouraging "free" units to not be afraid to die.
So now, with RFK nerfed majorly in early game, RTs should become significantly more important, and the game speed will be slower. Map control is more important, as opposed to just focusing on killing LAs so you can build that hive quicker.
For those of you who would say "But this sucks why should the marines get 50 res if I die as a Fade?!!!!!!1111oneoneeleven" think about this: It is much easier for aliens to kill marines with equipment because, barring armor upgrades, marines always have the same amount of health. A commander dropping 50 res worth of shotties will have equipment spread out between five marines, and they can easily be taken down by hit and runs, unless you want your entire marine team to stick together in one spot just to counter ONE fade, while the rest of the alien team runs rampant. The Fade gets all 50 res-worth of evoluation on himself, not spread bewteen 5 units, so he he kills on shotgunner in a group and then barely survive the encounter, the aliens get res, and the marines get nothing, even though they *almost* got the Fade.
Skulks: 0 resources, even with hive 1, 2 or 3
Gorge: 2 resources, each hive adds 2 resources to RFK when a gorge is killed
Lerk: 6 resources, each hive adds 4 resources
Fade: 10 resources, each hive adds 6 resources
Onos: 15 resources, each hive adds 8 resources
Also, the Onos would need a buff, since the marines get 15 res to kill 1.
Onos: 900/900 health. Instead of carapace raising armor, it increases armor effectiveness (only for onos).
Level 1: + .33 health per point of armor
Level 2: + .66 health per point of armor
Level 3: + 1.0 health per point of armor
So, that means at level 1 the Onos has an extra 300 health, at level 2 it has an extra 600 health, and at level 3 it has an extra 900 health.
Onos attacks: Hive 0 attack: Gore: Does 95 damage/gore, and does double damage to structures. RoF: 1/second. Uses 6% energy. Hive 1 attack: Devour: Same as now. Hive 2 attack: Stomp: Uses 20% energy. Stuns marines for 1.5 seconds. RoF: .8/second. Hive 3 attack: Charge: Does 425 damage/second. The Onos charges until he runs out of energy. Uses 14% energy/second. RoF: .33/second.
At hive 1: The onos has 2700 health (up from 1900 health). At hive 2: The Onos has 3150 total health (up from 2200 health. At hive 3: The Onos has 3600 health (up from 2500 health).
Marines are also worth 1/5 the cost of the original purchase. Upgrades are only 1/10 original cost
LA/LMG marine: 0 res.
Shotty: 2 resources
HMG: 3 resources
GL: 4 resources
HA/JP: 3 resources
Armor or Damage level 1: 2 resources
Armor or Damage level 2: 3 resources
Armor or Damage level 3: 4 resources
So a full set of armor would be worth 9 resources, a full set of weapons upgrades would be worth 9 resources.
Grenades: 2 resources (only if they are carrying a grenade, welder or mine with them)
Welder: 1 resource
Mines: 2 resource
Catalyst: 1 resource (if they have a cat pack)
So, an Onos with 3 hives would be worth 39 resources, a HA or JP with GL, all armor and weapons upgrades, a grenade, welder, some mines and a cat pack is worth 31 resources.
Those are still very high res gains, arent they? Imagine end game turtling...
I kind of got off-topic with the onos, but the onos is way too weak...
Fade dies. Marines get 50 Res (well, aliens lost 50 res <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Commander drops armory + shotguns for hive rush -> Aliens die.
or.
Marines decided to make a shotguns rush. All Marines die (well, bad luck) and they lost 50 res. Aliens gayned 50 res (or even more!!) and strikeback with 4 Fades against Marines without res and equipement....
fair?