My Guide To Commander

Bun-Bun · July 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">Feel free to post helpful replies</div>
Ok Here goes. I did one of these for NS 1.04, but It needed a major overhaul so here is another version.

Before I get into details about what to do, I'll just give a few helpful hints to a prospective comm. Firstly, be adaptive. Dont set strategies in concrete. Work with what you have. If you have the best team in the entire universe then you can upgrade a little later (although u would win fast anyway) if you have the nubbest team of random nubs that ever were spawned in the nine pits of hell, then work with them.

Use a Microphone. comms without a mic are seriously disadvantaged as they have to type out what they want rather than speaking (which is much faster).

Dont lose your temper. A comm rarely gets what he wants by yelling at the team. Keep them notified of what you are doing. Letting a team know what is comming up in upgrades, how you are going at locking down key points on the map, how many res points you have and where you need the marines to go are all great ways to get your team to listen to you.

Hotkeys are your friends. In my case I use all 5 hotkeys constantly. Usually I have 2 slots for 2 groups of marines (at different objective points), the obs, arms lab and depending on what I am doing during game, the proto/armory for upgrade times. If I'm sieging alot I'll switch out the 5th slot for a second obs.

Ok onto the guide.

You have 2 different options as a comm as soon as you start. You can either stay at base or relocate to a key point. Depending on the map I will favour relocation or staying at base.

Staying at base
Staying at base has it's pro's and cons on every map. Staying at base in NS_Nancy for example is not as advantageous as relocating because your base is so far away from key points. This is also true in NS_Hera as the marines have quite a ways to go to get to a hive. The big advantage in staying at base on any map is that you dont have to spend 30 res at the start on a new comm chair, but considering the advantages of a relocate, 30 res is well spent. Decide for yourself which maps you would favor staying at base on. Remember its up to you.

Relocation
One of the biggest strategies in NS is the relocation. In ALOT of situations it is advantageous to relocate to a better area. A few maps that spring to mind especially are NS_Tanith, NS_Nancy and NS_Bast. In each of those maps there are key points that will allow you to lockdown atleast 1 hive and several res points. There are always several things you must consider when relocating. The first is how defendable it is. The more access points it has, the more directions you need to defend it. Where is the alien hive? This crucial piece of information is extremely important when relocating. Advantages of relocating there. This one is possibly the most important. If an area is close to several key positions, or gives access to them then it is a viable relocation point. The most prominent ones offhand that I can think of are NS_Bast's Main Aft Junction which gives access to engineering hive, 2 routes to Refinery hive and 2 resource points close at hand (res in hives are extras and not quite as close). It also only has 3 directional access points for aliens to assault it and 2 of those give warning when someone is coming (the rotating door and engine room door). The vent into marine spawn from here should be welded up fast so that isnt a problem. All in all this is an excellent relocation point. Just keep those things in mind when relocating.

Locating the Starting Hive
Okies this one is easy. Once you have gotten into the chair, immediately find the starting hive. This information is crucial to successfully locking down hives and key locations and also relocation (if you chose to). For those of you who dont know how to find the hive (as you cant see it) go to the 3 hive locations on your minimap and listen at each res point for a few seconds. It will make a sound if there is a res there, even if you cant see it. a hive with a res point in it within the first 30 seconds or so is the starting hive. Plan your strategies around this.

Beginning Base
there are 4 structures that should be build in order (excluding res points) for the starting base. These are Infantry portal (IP), Armory, Arms Lab and Observatory. I'll get to arms lab and observatory in a second, but for now the first 2 structures you need to build are an IP and an Armory. These are essential as they allow you to build other structures, give your marines ammo and allow your marines to spawn! Depending on your strategies and res holdings, you can chose which out of arms lab and obs to build first. Usually I will drop both at once and then set upgrades on at once. The arms lab allows you to upgrade your marines and the observatory allows for motion tracking (Very helpful for you and your minions) but more importantly phase tech.

Upgrading (Order and priority)
Ok there are several upgrades available for marines so I will list them all. Each upgrade is listed as the type, name and structure it is upgraded at along with a small description.
The 3 different upgrade types are Marine, structural and Marine comm dropped upgrades. Marine upgrades are upgrades that all marines recieve when they spawn. Strucural upgrades are upgrades to buildings that allow access to other things or increase the structure's usefulness and Marine commander dropped upgrades are things such as catalyst, HMG's Shotguns etc.

Armor Level 1,2,3 
(Marine upgrade, Researched at Arms Lab. This upgrade increases marine armor reducing the amount of damage that a marine takes per hit.)
Weapons Level 1,2,3 
(marine Upgrade, Researched at Arms Lab. This upgrade increases the damage that marine weapons deal per hit.)
Catalyst 
(Stimulant Pack dropped by comm, Researched at Arms Lab. This upgrade increases a marines attack speed and walking speed for 8 seconds.)
Advanced Armory 
(Structural. Researched at Standard Armory. Allows for additional structures and weapons to be dropped.)
Grenades 
(Marine Upgrade, Researched at Armory. Gives each marine as they spawn 1 hand grenade which can be thrown.)
Motion Tracking 
(Marine Upgrade, Researched at Observatory. Allows marines and the commander to see alien movement around the map and in close. Does not work in line of sight.)
Phase gate Technology
(Structural Upgrade, Researched at Observatory. Allows the construction of Phase gates for instant teleportation between them.)
Jet Packs
(Marine Upgrade dropped by commander. Researched at Proto Lab. Equips a marine with a jet pack allowing him to fly for a short period of time.)
Heavy Armor
(Marine Upgrade dropped by commander. Researched at Proto Lab. Equips a marine with a Heavy Armory suit which significantly decreases the damage he takes, makes him immune to lurk spores and gives him substantial amounts of armor. Can not be equipped in conjunction with a jet pack.)
Electrify
(Structural Upgrade, Researched at turret factories and Resource points. Hits alien life forms and structures with a bolt of electricity. Requires a turret factory to be researchable on resource points.)
Siege
(Structural Upgrade, Researched at Turret Factories. Allows the construction of Siege cannons for destroying alien structures.)

Every comm has an order of upgrades that he uses and generally sticks to. I prefer to keep an open mind about upgrades (although I will stick to a general plan of them) and vary what I get based on how the game is going. The essential upgrades for marines are Armor, Weapons, Motion Tracking and Proto lab Upgrades.

Arguably the best initial upgrade for marines is Armor level 1 as it allows them to take more damage before dying and allows you to secure ares faster. Most commanders will put armor level 1 on to upgrade as soon as they have an arms lab. Depending on your strategy, a choice of motion tracking or phase tech as alternative first upgrade is also viable although depending on the team not as viable an option. Generally I advise upgrading in this general order (you can switch and change as you see fit, but this is the general order)

Marine Armor Level 1
Phase Tech (Generally at the same time as Armor 1)
Marine Weapons 1
Advanced Armory
Marine Weapons 2
Motion Tracking (At around the same time as I put marine weapons 2 on)
Marine Weapons 3 (Some comms prefer to do armor 2 next but I generally do weapons 3 as the aliens die a great deal faster and hence your marines survive longer anyway).
Proto Lab Upgrade (Of choice depending on situation)
Marine Armor 2
Marine Armor 3
Various (Any upgrades I have missed from these main ones that I have the res for at the time)

This varies depending on situations, but as a general guide it works quite well.

(More to come on next post)

Lito · July 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bun-Bun @ Jul 14 2004, 06:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Use a Microphone. comms without a mic are seriously disadvantaged as they have to type out what they want rather than speaking (which is much faster).  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Gasp! I didn't think anyone noticed!

Bun-Bun · July 2004

Strategy

There are several things that are important to every strategy for commander and they are:

Resource Points
Hive Locations
Lockdown Points
Siege Points

These 4 are the most important. I will start with resource points.

Resource Points
To win as commander you must, I repeat MUST control the res. This means that you need to have around 1/2 to 3/4 of the res points on the map. For most maps this is between 5 and 8 res points. The best way to make sure you hold the res is to have a squad of 2 marines run around just capping res points and re capping destroyed res points. Important to note that resource points will get destroyed. Quick response to the message of "Our base is under attack" will allow you to dispatch your little squad of res gatheres to the res point before it gets destroyed or to rebuild it if it dies. Electrifying res points is viable for out of the way res points that take alot of time to get to and is better used sparingly unless you control a great portion of the map as it takes 30 res to do it and 30 res is a HA suite with HMG or 3 shotguns etc. If you can control the res, it means to a degree you also control the alien evolutions because they get res a great deal slower and you will not see several fades in the first 5-10 minutes of the game.

Hive Locations
Locking down hive locations in the game is one of the most important things to do. Apart from giving you another res point (which is valuable in itself) it also stops the aliens from not only getting more abilities, but also stops them becoming more powerful (as alien abilities become better with each hive). Generally you must always lock down one hive to start with and if you can get 2 then more the better. I will stress this most importantly. DONT THINK A TURRET FARM WILL KEEP THE HIVE SAFE. A hive with a turret farm is safe from skulks, but will not stop a fade much. Combine a turret farm with a phase gate (and perhaps an electified res point) and it is much more secure. The problem with turret farms is that it is firstly ALOT of res, and secondly can be taken out quite fast by a gorge with bile bomb. try to hold a hive with just a few turrets and a phase until you have locked down the 2nd hive. At that point feel free to farm a bit more as aliens have alot more trouble kiling it. Keep an eye on all your hive locations at all times as sometime as sneaky fade will destroy your phase or TF without you knowing it.

Lockdown Points
These are key areas that you need to hold. They are things like double res, junctions to hives and areas that give u a high strategic value. Locking down these after hives is a good idea, although not "necessary".

Siege Points
Siege Points are important for the comm. No matter how good a comm you are, aliens will get a hive up at some point in a game (not neccesarily every game). These are locations that you need to know to be able to siege hives. Siege locations are numerous and better that you learn these yourself.

Med Packs & Ammo Packs
At different points in the games you can be free or tight with these as you see fit. It is extremely advisable not to med spam early in the game. The only time it is needed is when trying to take a hive or relocation point. When res is scarce be more restrictive with your medpacks. When you have alot of res you can be more free. Med spam is always a good way to save a hive rush or a base. The same with ammo. Try not to spam ammo, but just give it out to marines that need it. When you give out gren launchers it is always good to give the marine with the GL a few ammo packs. It stops him armory humping for 30 secs to fill up his GL meaning you can get him out there faster killing structures, hives etc. All in all, use your own discretion, you learn when to med in time.

Note: When a marine calls for ammo or meds it will give u an icon on the left of the Commander Hud. The fast key for it is spacebar. this will just take you to the most recent call for ammo, meds. marine calling for orders or structure under attack.

Waypoints
These are very helpful for your marines to follow your commands. Alot of players do not know the names of areas and even though u may, dont assume they do. Give people waypoints where you want them to go.

Hotkeys
Ok there are 2 types of hotkeys. Your 1-5 selected structure/marine squads and your hud command hotkeys. Learn to be fast switching with these. It takes practise, but you learn how to do it fast and efficiently so if a marine calls for a res point or a phase gate you can press 2 buttons and drop it to him by selecting the menu and then the menu option.

Overall Comments
Being a good commander takes just 3 things. Practise, practise, practise! Good comms learn how to do things, take hives and areas, best building ideas for bases, turret placement etc. You learn the maps the more you play them and how to comm each map as you go. Dont despair if your first commanding experience is not the perfection you want. It takes time and practise to become a good comm and more practise and time to be a great comm. Remember, your team is relying on you as much as you them, so be nice to your team because you need them and they need you. You cant vote them off, but if you stuff them around or are rude they can eject you.

For any help, suggestions or comments, post here or PM me. I will update this and add more stuff as time goes by.

Thanks for reading,
Bun-Bun.

Kevlar_Gorilla · July 2004

Man, I sure do enjoy good sentence structure and spelling.

Great job.

SLizer · July 2004

Ye that was delicious to read.

To sum that all up you need 3 thing to win

1. Pressure hive!
2. Make new rt`s all the time (1 in min MIN!!)
3. Destroy alien rt`s

the third one in publics is often most crucial because there wont be much rt`s after the start

Svenpa · July 2004

Block escaping low hp fades/*oni with an armory.

Scan a hive then attack the other 1.

DONT forget about nades and cata, nades are really good vs buildings and cata owns the escaping onos in long games.

Put a pg in 1 hive send 1 or 2 marines to build it. While having the others moving in on another hive. If the 2 marines success you attack that hive, or if they die you get the other hive.

Send 1-2 marines in a other hive you arnt attacking taking out any mcs making it hard for alien reinforcments.

hope it helps <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Celiz · July 2004

ahh, thanks alot...this has helped alot

guess what , my commander record is no 2-8 lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> , im learning tho and thats what matters

FellowCanadian · July 2004

In my experience, great commanders will actually use player's names. This will help develope a raport with your marines and they may be more willing to listen if they know they are a part of a team. Something I like to do is quickly identify who your leaders are in a group of marines and ask them to lead others to certain areas. I think its awesome when you have a small squad of 2-3 marines who are protecting each other and following your orders!

Nadagast · July 2004

Wow turret farms ruin NS. If turrets were removed today I'd be so happy...

Locking down hives with turret farms means that the game will last forever with no action or totally 1 sided action (skulks vs HA). It makes NS the worst HL mod. Period.

FellowCanadian · July 2004

its not difficult to take down a turret farm.... bile bombing works nicely, a 1 hive onos can do it without a problem, and a fade can take out the tf. No worries <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Nadagast · July 2004

not if there is a PG there... a PG + Turret Farm is pretty unbreakable unless you have 2 hives. If they lockdown the hive... you see where this is going. It determines the outcome of the game at 5 minutes in and the game will last for another 25 minutes... making it more boring than watching paint dry.

FellowCanadian · July 2004

in which case you may want to experiment a bit here. If your team will not support you in trying to destroy the farm, you can still take it out going solo. So lets assume you're playing a losing battle and your looking for opportunities to win back the game, my first suggestion is try your best to save for a regen fade. Try knocking out any nessary turrets to clear a direct path to the tf/pg. If marines start phasing in to protect their turret farm, run away and hit another location on some other side of the map.

If you're getting desperate and you're nothing but a skulk, organize a team of skulks to swarm the farm. Have 1-2 skulks run around trying to draw the turret fire and have everyone else attack the pg/tf.

These are suggestions that have worked for me in the past, so hopefully it can benefit you too.

Nadagast · July 2004

wow 1 shotty or HMGer will hold off a fade or even like 5 skulks easily... with turret backup... besides the comm can just phase more guys through and you CANNOT kill it.

FellowCanadian · July 2004

Yay for open minded people <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

MamboKing · July 2004

I have to disagree about motion-tracking being essential.

Bun-Bun · July 2004

ok for all those people who didnt read the topic name, this is a guide to how to command, not a full in depth strategy guide to ns. No "how to take out rine structures as aliens" posts please. Just response to the guide. I do agree MamboKing that motion is not "essential" but it does help a great deal, especially when holding areas or sneaking somewhere.

If the aliens get sensory first also then you should try to get motion up earlier if possible.

I agree that saying marines names builds team strength. Much better to call them by their names. I do that anyway, I jsut forgot to add it here.

Apart from that, whoever it was who said "Turret farms ruin NS" I agree to a degree, because turret farms can get tedeous if the comm uses them alot. But locking down a hive requires defense in the hive to a degree and an elec res or phase doesnt cut it alot of the time. Generally the turret farm is in a place to hold that place and stop alien advancement. After all, the general idea is to win, not be nice and let them get their hives up.

If you want to argue turret farming more, then start a post for it. This is not the place.

Nadagast · July 2004

if you're gonna lock down a hive why not use something that doesn't make the game boring, eg mines and marines? I seriously do not understand a lot of pubbers, do you try to make the game as boring as possible? Turret farms ANYWHERE make NS horribly boring and slow paced, as aliens can't kill them w/o 2 hives, and even at 2 hives it's pretty difficult.

turret farm means that all the marines do is press +use and build turrets, then wait inside the farm until HA, because they have no guns/meds/upgrades because you spent all the res on turrets. It means aliens wait outside the farm (they get owned if they go in) waiting for a dumb marine with no armor1 to come out. After 10-15 minutes of waiting and suiciding into electrified res nodes all over the map, HA comes and the game ends. BORING.

Bun-Bun · July 2004

You obviously havent played then.

That is not what happens at all when u LOCK DOWN A HIVE. Its not like you lock down a hive, lock down a second one and are prancing around waiting for upgrades to move out (and btw I have never mass turret spammed in my life, but using several turrets to lock down key areas is neccesary some times. I have never run out of res for meds/ammo or weapons).

I have found that after securly locking down a hive, you can not worry about it to an extent and move on to capture other areas of the map. Incase u didnt notice, the idea is not to just hold what u currently have but to push for more. So I dont see where mines and marines are going to hold a hive once the marines have moved out. Also not 1 pack of mines costs the same as 1 turret, and you will get nub placements because of random team members picking them up.

Furthermore, as commander its not your job to make the alien team's time fun or easy. You are basically supposed to make it as hard as possible for them, so that your marines can advance safely. If you think that its anything else then you are mistaken as a commaders first priority is to his team.

Kevlar_Gorilla · July 2004

This is a guide to being a good comm, by definition. That doesn't mean he's telling us what to do to win, but what options we have after we earn them. Being versitile, knowing these options, and thinking for the moment (for the game) is what makes a good comm.

Good guide; I enjoy.

SaltzBad · July 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nadagast @ Jul 16 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if you're gonna lock down a hive why not use something that doesn't make the game boring, eg mines and marines? I seriously do not understand a lot of pubbers, do you try to make the game as boring as possible? Turret farms ANYWHERE make NS horribly boring and slow paced, as aliens can't kill them w/o 2 hives, and even at 2 hives it's pretty difficult.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Commanding on publics is usually done in a way that requires less cooperation, attention from the commander or work from the team. So the reason they turret farm in the first place is because of a horribly stacked team (able to easily walk in on 2 hives with often not even Armor 1 - all under 3 minutes), and fairly horrible aliens.

Turreting does indeed make the really, really easy wins even easier - because in essence all the commanders responsibilitys get such a huge margin for error that its nigh impossible to fail. Forget medpacks? Doesn't matter, you're not gonna lose the PG anyway. Forget to listen for Gorges putting up new Hives? Doesn't matter, theres a farm there anyway. Forget to attack nodes? Doesn't matter, your team is superior enough by default to keep them down to 1 node. Forget to upgrade? Doesn't matter, you still have 5times the techspeed, and most of it is entirely superflous to win.

Whereas other methods require actual teamwork, communication and even the occasional bout of skill from both the Commander and the Marines - which is harder, and hence undesirable to many (although alot more fun).

Meh :/ Same thing basicly goes for OC spamming gorges. If aliens = overpowering to all hell, OC spamming gorges cement the win beyond comeback. Which also illuminates the irony about commanders that employ turrets - they become hopelessly outclassed in remotely interesting games (aliens field at least 1 decent 4 minute Fade, Lerk and Hive each).

Funny how static defense is the most popular form of teamwork avoidance <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

TheAdj · July 2004

I agree with both Saltz and Nadagast. If you want a boring game, turret everything up. Turret farms show 2 things. Deploying them means that either 1) You just secured a game you would have won anyways without them, or 2) You just lost the game for your team because you needed upgrades to face better aliens. They serve no in-between purpose. Turrets delay the endgame in either direction, whether marines win or lose. Games like THAT make people want to stop playing, because they're boring as hell for all included. Turret farms are a shoddy substitute for teamwork and excellent comming. They are a crutch which people rely on because they can't do it without them (in their own minds). Challenge yourself as a commander. Go tfac-less. Have marines defend nodes, not electricity. Have marine defend hives, not turrets. Learn strategy and tactics, not turtling and hoping the big bad aliens suck enough to not know how to defeat it.

Bun-Bun · July 2004

Man have u played a pub match recently? And note this a comanding guide not a strategy guide on how to play the most fun game of all time.

I play pubs alot and I find that if you havent got the best team then you do need to secure and so forth. Most of the time marines on a pub will just ignore the commander to a large extent.

Stick to the topic please. Helpful hints for aspiring commanders are welcome. This is a guide on how to play commander and to an extent how to win. Turret farms are one option, but not necessary and I argue with anyone who says that they make the game boring or delay the end game for one reason. Turret farms are a good way to stop a hive getting up, but they are by no means infallable. I have lost many a game with 2 hives locked down because the marines didnt listen, or the aliens rushed it with large nubers of higher life forms.

TOmekki · July 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bun-Bun)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I have lost many a game with 2 hives locked down because the marines didnt listen, or the aliens rushed it with large nubers of higher life forms. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheAdj`)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>or 2) You just lost the game for your team because you needed upgrades to face better aliens.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

ah the harmony