I think OC's are fine overall, but the Gorge form could use a drop in res cost for given reasons.
OC's have decent damage, considering their targets. It only takes a couple of hits to kill a marine, and with Sensory cloaking, you can nail a few when they aren't looking with good placement. Furthermore, they heal on their own and can be quickly repaired by DC's and gorges.
That they have a slow rate of fire makes them killable, rather than a game-stopper requiring the chamber to be sieged to dislodge them (although a WoL still requires serious consideration, given the resource load put into it). This is in counter-balance to the fact that every OC is self sufficient and can be placed anywhere, unlike the Marine turrets which require a relatively nonfunctional Turret Factory that acts as a lynchpin for all nearby turrets. There is no one building you can kill to disable the OC's.
There are ways to turn the OC's weakness into an advantage. For example, a marine who is carefully chiselling away at the hitbox from around a corner isn't likely to be paying much attention to the skulk behind him. Even if he is, chances are he won't have close to a full metal jacket loaded. Furthermore, OC's take a LOT of ammo to take down. Several clips at least. If you aren't responding to an attack on OC's by a single or pair of marines, you're passing up the easy res for the kills. In most cases, the marine will have had to either humped the armory hard, or their Comm needs to spend res in delivery.
I pulled a surprise in the Cargo above Mess Hall by putting 2 OC's opposite the ladders, followed by 3 other OC's covering the doorways and those that come up the ladder (out of immediate view). Backed by a Sensory (and later a couple DC's), the OC's gunned down EVERY ramboing marine either on the ladder, or as they broke into Cargo. Cloaked OC's are great to stick around corners where they can shoot passerbys in the back if they aren't paying attention.
<!--QuoteBegin-ObsidianShard+Jul 8 2004, 06:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ObsidianShard @ Jul 8 2004, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I pulled a surprise in the Cargo above Mess Hall by putting 2 OC's opposite the ladders, followed by 3 other OC's covering the doorways and those that come up the ladder (out of immediate view). Backed by a Sensory (and later a couple DC's), the OC's gunned down EVERY ramboing marine either on the ladder, or as they broke into Cargo. Cloaked OC's are great to stick around corners where they can shoot passerbys in the back if they aren't paying attention. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You would have been better off droping a Hive for the team and placing a sensory chamber where you want to hold and then skulk in the area. The boost of power the hive would provide will more then make up for you staying in one area to secure it.
Yea OCs are great... but Hives are better, so are RTs.
What exactly do you mean by, "fix alien res system"? The concept here is to create two teams that provide completely different playing experiences. Sure, if the only difference was looks it would be balanced, but less fun. I know that's not what you're getting at, it's just kind of an extreme example to put things in perspective.
However, I think that the OC's should be decreased to 7-5 resources, in that area. Considering that 3-4 OCs and 2-3 DCs can hold off the marines from an area for a while, why not go fade and keep the marines out of several areas for a while?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->res system is built for 6v6 and doesn't scale correctly.
for example, good luck doing anything in 12v12 with 3 alien rts, the optimal amount is around 6!. ideally you should be able to tech quickly [fades around 4ish minutes] with around 4 nodes in that situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I see what you mean. It confused me at first because I don't see where this connects to the discussion (Fades are better than OC's at 6v6, Fades are better than OC's at 3v3, Fades are better than OC's at 12v12, in my opinion).
<!--QuoteBegin-Hobojoe+Jul 12 2004, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hobojoe @ Jul 12 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the reason ocs suck on pubs is pretty much due to the fact that you don't have enough res to use them is what i mean. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is pretty much the entire point of the topic... To discuss the current price of the OC. Maybe messing around with it's stats is a bad thing, It's price is the only thing making it a bad choice to build right now.
5 res each and drop the area limit? Please remember... before saying "OMG OC SPAM!" that the alien team has limited resources like marines. Yes they DONT have infinite res, so if they spend in one area (OCs) they wont have enough for other areas (Hives, Fades, Upgrade Chambers).
plus, i dont like the 6-9 res idea... Prices should be in increments of 5 to easily calculate how many buildings you can purchase at any given situation.
If coupled with a lowered/free gorging cost you'd probubly see players dedicated to OCing the map up with their res. Run around as skulk... get RFK, gorge plop down chambers... repeat.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hobojoe+Jul 13 2004, 12:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hobojoe @ Jul 13 2004, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah, it's a much better idea to fix res system, that leaves 6v6 alone completly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would "fixing" the res system include giving a "Giveres" type function to the alien team? its not that they cant afford OCs, its that the players that CAN afford then CANT spend any res untill at least 20 res (10 of which disapears because of the stupid gorging cost), or cant change into gorge to build without losing their higher lifeforms (which is dumb to, you pay for the evolution, you should be able to go into it whenever you want with a bit of gestation time!).
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 13 2004, 01:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 13 2004, 01:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or we could just ditch the res splitting entirely and give each alien what they would currently receive in a six person team, regardless of team size. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then we'd just have to change marine's RT resource speed. Either way we have to change how fast the teams get res in large games.
I suggested this ages ago, but I'll bring it up again.
Parasited marines in the radius of an OC are automatically struck by the OC attack. It can go through walls, into vents ect. Storywise, the OC spike literally homes in on the location of the parasite. This makes the OC far more useful and adds an extra teamwork reward.
I like the parasite/OC symbiosis idea. It would provide the Aliens some way of "sieging" in a limited form without having to dive headlong into a turret farm and bunkered HMG marines. The cost could stay at 10 for this
I also agree that a gorge form should cost more comparitively with the skulk. 5 seems about right.
I also agree that the res for the alien team should be made a bit more efficient. In games larger than 6v6, the res rate maintains as if it was 6v6 (1 res every 24 seconds per RT), either that, or share kill res (you get 1 res for the kill, if the kill was worth more, the extra 1-2 gets cycled in with the RT rotation)
Lastly, I wish there was a way to share res among the alien team, since I typically don't evolve higher than a lerk, yet still run around with 99 res. There should be some way to split an amount of res with the rest of the team if you have some to spare (rather than picking the person to give it to, which may result in fades rediculously early in the game).
Right now, the only thing I use OC's for is to kill dumb rambos in ambush spots and taking out elecrified RT's. Most of my res (I play on an unchained server) goes into my sensory cloaking network, backed by movement chambers.
- Lower Gorge res costs to 5. Lower starting res to 20
- rework hitscan of OCs so they no long could be taken down around corners
- double RoF and halften damage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with all 3 ideas.
I also think lerk should cost 25, since fade is 50, onos is 75... makes sense. I believe the only reason they cost 30 is because the devs didnt want players to go lerk right at the start. Since gorge fights like a girl, 5 res isn't that bad.
As for the hitrange, I believe the OC fires from the spiky ball part... and since the OC base is larger then the top, I don't think this is possible, UNLESS there is a new OC model...
When you are at 99 res, you "overflow" to other players.
OCs should be about 1/2 the current size, and the idea of being able to stick them to any surface would be awesome. (Spit them onto a ceiling for example)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OCs should be about 1/2 the current size, and the idea of being able to stick them to any surface would be awesome. (Spit them onto a ceiling for example)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone made a plugin for that ages ago (might even have been back in 1.04). It was very sweet indeed and looked awesome. Basically the gorge got a building sprite exactly like the commander gets and could point it and shoot at any buildable surface. The catch was of course that if you put an OC high up, you couldn't reach it, so it had to grow by itself. There were problems though as I recall; damaged chambers tended to fall off, OCs found it hard to shoot. But still, the idea really had a lot of merit.
Just as a reminder, there've been plenty of complaints about OCs in every NS version. The general reply to this was that chambers are largely useless by themselves, but deadly when set up properly with webs. Webs were the difference between an overpriced inconvenience and an actual defensive measure - not that they'd turn away a full-fledged assault or anything, but they weren't expected to.
The problem isn't in OCs themselves, but that half of the OC/web combination is gone. Swapping bile bomb back with web would be a minor change that would place both skills in better positions. Having bile bomb to break entrenched marines at endgame and webs to defend during expansion makes sense. Having bile bomb during a period when a fade is far more effective at the same thing and getting webs after the kharaa are at their strongest doesn't.
So while OCs not targetting by corners (and possibly being lousy shots against jumpers) should be fixed, complaining about OCs themselves is a little like tying mines to the prototype lab and then saying that they're useless. Kharaa have what they need, but not when they need it.
Not that changing gorge costs and so on might not be a change for the better, but it isn't the issue here.
<!--QuoteBegin-OG17+Jul 14 2004, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OG17 @ Jul 14 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just as a reminder, there've been plenty of complaints about OCs in every NS version. The general reply to this was that chambers are largely useless by themselves, but deadly when set up properly with webs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Webs? You mean pretty much the only hive 3 weapon that deserves it's place at hive 3? Web really is a game-ender and shouldn't be moved up. (Although some changes regarding area limit and inability to remove stupid webs need to be made.)
Aliens need an early-game defence to allow them to do more then run from RT to RT trying to defend against rambos.
Call me crazy, but I don't remember web at two hives as being a problem, and the ability was a good deal stronger then, too. If it seems to be a game-ender, it's only because it's most seen once the game's ended, when marines have so many other problems that a gorge can web a base without getting blown away on sight. It's coincidence. Web at even no hives wouldn't be at all the same because there'd be no rampaging alien force in the background.
Offensive webbing was a possible issue, but that can be removed without affecting defensive usages (it's actually a bit strange that the current web is placed to be most useful offensively - there's little need for defensive webbing at endgame). And just as they did before, marines have GLs and welders - and now, hand grenades. I refuse to believe that marines are somehow ill-equiped to handle webs at two hives.
"The only hive 3 weapon that deserves it's place at hive 3" is disputable, but for no reasons that concern Web itself.
And I'm a little confused at how you defend three-hive webs and stress a need for early defense in the same breath.
Fix corner sniping, probibly using hitscan type attack, and lower the cost slightly. This will allow to use them more freely, and make them not be easy targets. Also, free gorge, I think a 5 res cost would be better.
Webs were a problem when they were hive 2 weapons. You could web even people with welders (and that was when welders were constant, not the random pauses we have now). As you mentioned, there was also a huge web limit compared to now, but that can be avoided by only webbing marines instead of areas.
If web were changed to a 1 second solidify time and then the limits re-upped, I would love them back at hive 2.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Jul 16 2004, 12:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jul 16 2004, 12:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If web were changed to a 1 second solidify time and then the limits re-upped, I would love them back at hive 2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why reup the limit? why not just let the gorge "overwrite" web. AKA taking out the oldest web so the new one may be placed.
Lower the cost to 8, yes, 8...only a very slight cost reduction...buff up the RoF by about 20%, give it about 100-200 armor or so...that's it...nothing more...
Second, add a second kind of OC that the khaara can build...as someone suggested earlier, an OC that shoot spores would be interesting to have...so let's say we have one which is a kind of heavy OC which costs perhaps 15 res to build...however it should be a bit weaker than the OC that we have now (perhaps have 800 hp), slow rate of fire (one shot per 7-8 seconds or so, since the spore cloud will remain for a couple of secs anyway, and the khaara can stack heavy OC's)...basically it'd be a bit like a heavy attillery...decent range, and decent ability to hold an area, but if left on it's own, almost totally useless...
<!--QuoteBegin-Trevelyan+Jul 16 2004, 06:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Jul 16 2004, 06:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Jul 16 2004, 12:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jul 16 2004, 12:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If web were changed to a 1 second solidify time and then the limits re-upped, I would love them back at hive 2. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why reup the limit? why not just let the gorge "overwrite" web. AKA taking out the oldest web so the new one may be placed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because 30 webs for an entire NS map provides very little defense (if that's what we want webs to be). 30 webs for a CS map would be plenty.
Yes to overwriting old webs. Or a per-gorge web limit or something. Some way to get rid of the webs the newb stuck in some obscure corner. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah, both could be done. Overwriting solves some issues, increasing the limit solves others.
30 webs in a CO map is probably enough, but definitely not in an NS map. If there was one thing that I could change between CO and NS, it would be that. What amounts to enough webs in an NS map may amount to complete web coverage in CO.
Webs themselves are fine in Classic as far as function is concerned, but the limit is ridiculously low. The nerf obviously took only Combat into consideration and Classic suffered for it again. Give them back their old limit(preferably only in ns, but if co has to deal with it too then so be it) and they'll be fine. Also it would be nice if you could spit a web to remove it, or at least old ones would disappear as you reached the cap instead of just a hard limit.
oc's could be made to hurt marines that run past or jump over them. i think if u look at it for a while u can understand why <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Either it should parasite a marine if he touchs an OC, or alert the alien team that they're firing, like a comm knows when turrets are. That way people cant just jump over OCs and have no one know.
OCs need to shoot through each other like turret do as well. I don't see how you can equate 7 turrets to 7 OCs when only 2 or 3 of those OCs can actually hit the target, and the other OCs are killing the ones in front FOR you.
Comments
OC's have decent damage, considering their targets. It only takes a couple of hits to kill a marine, and with Sensory cloaking, you can nail a few when they aren't looking with good placement. Furthermore, they heal on their own and can be quickly repaired by DC's and gorges.
That they have a slow rate of fire makes them killable, rather than a game-stopper requiring the chamber to be sieged to dislodge them (although a WoL still requires serious consideration, given the resource load put into it). This is in counter-balance to the fact that every OC is self sufficient and can be placed anywhere, unlike the Marine turrets which require a relatively nonfunctional Turret Factory that acts as a lynchpin for all nearby turrets. There is no one building you can kill to disable the OC's.
There are ways to turn the OC's weakness into an advantage. For example, a marine who is carefully chiselling away at the hitbox from around a corner isn't likely to be paying much attention to the skulk behind him. Even if he is, chances are he won't have close to a full metal jacket loaded. Furthermore, OC's take a LOT of ammo to take down. Several clips at least. If you aren't responding to an attack on OC's by a single or pair of marines, you're passing up the easy res for the kills. In most cases, the marine will have had to either humped the armory hard, or their Comm needs to spend res in delivery.
I pulled a surprise in the Cargo above Mess Hall by putting 2 OC's opposite the ladders, followed by 3 other OC's covering the doorways and those that come up the ladder (out of immediate view). Backed by a Sensory (and later a couple DC's), the OC's gunned down EVERY ramboing marine either on the ladder, or as they broke into Cargo. Cloaked OC's are great to stick around corners where they can shoot passerbys in the back if they aren't paying attention.
You would have been better off droping a Hive for the team and placing a sensory chamber where you want to hold and then skulk in the area. The boost of power the hive would provide will more then make up for you staying in one area to secure it.
Yea OCs are great... but Hives are better, so are RTs.
However, I think that the OC's should be decreased to 7-5 resources, in that area. Considering that 3-4 OCs and 2-3 DCs can hold off the marines from an area for a while, why not go fade and keep the marines out of several areas for a while?
for example, good luck doing anything in 12v12 with 3 alien rts, the optimal amount is around 6!. ideally you should be able to tech quickly [fades around 4ish minutes] with around 4 nodes in that situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see what you mean. It confused me at first because I don't see where this connects to the discussion (Fades are better than OC's at 6v6, Fades are better than OC's at 3v3, Fades are better than OC's at 12v12, in my opinion).
Which is pretty much the entire point of the topic... To discuss the current price of the OC. Maybe messing around with it's stats is a bad thing, It's price is the only thing making it a bad choice to build right now.
5 res each and drop the area limit? Please remember... before saying "OMG OC SPAM!" that the alien team has limited resources like marines. Yes they DONT have infinite res, so if they spend in one area (OCs) they wont have enough for other areas (Hives, Fades, Upgrade Chambers).
plus, i dont like the 6-9 res idea... Prices should be in increments of 5 to easily calculate how many buildings you can purchase at any given situation.
If coupled with a lowered/free gorging cost you'd probubly see players dedicated to OCing the map up with their res. Run around as skulk... get RFK, gorge plop down chambers... repeat.
Would "fixing" the res system include giving a "Giveres" type function to the alien team? its not that they cant afford OCs, its that the players that CAN afford then CANT spend any res untill at least 20 res (10 of which disapears because of the stupid gorging cost), or cant change into gorge to build without losing their higher lifeforms (which is dumb to, you pay for the evolution, you should be able to go into it whenever you want with a bit of gestation time!).
Then we'd just have to change marine's RT resource speed. Either way we have to change how fast the teams get res in large games.
- Lower Gorge res costs to 5. Lower starting res to 20
- rework hitscan of OCs so they no long could be taken down around corners
- double RoF and halften damage.
Parasited marines in the radius of an OC are automatically struck by the OC attack. It can go through walls, into vents ect. Storywise, the OC spike literally homes in on the location of the parasite. This makes the OC far more useful and adds an extra teamwork reward.
I also agree that a gorge form should cost more comparitively with the skulk. 5 seems about right.
I also agree that the res for the alien team should be made a bit more efficient. In games larger than 6v6, the res rate maintains as if it was 6v6 (1 res every 24 seconds per RT), either that, or share kill res (you get 1 res for the kill, if the kill was worth more, the extra 1-2 gets cycled in with the RT rotation)
Lastly, I wish there was a way to share res among the alien team, since I typically don't evolve higher than a lerk, yet still run around with 99 res. There should be some way to split an amount of res with the rest of the team if you have some to spare (rather than picking the person to give it to, which may result in fades rediculously early in the game).
Right now, the only thing I use OC's for is to kill dumb rambos in ambush spots and taking out elecrified RT's. Most of my res (I play on an unchained server) goes into my sensory cloaking network, backed by movement chambers.
- Lower Gorge res costs to 5. Lower starting res to 20
- rework hitscan of OCs so they no long could be taken down around corners
- double RoF and halften damage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with all 3 ideas.
I also think lerk should cost 25, since fade is 50, onos is 75... makes sense. I believe the only reason they cost 30 is because the devs didnt want players to go lerk right at the start. Since gorge fights like a girl, 5 res isn't that bad.
As for the hitrange, I believe the OC fires from the spiky ball part... and since the OC base is larger then the top, I don't think this is possible, UNLESS there is a new OC model...
OCs should be about 1/2 the current size, and the idea of being able to stick them to any surface would be awesome. (Spit them onto a ceiling for example)
Someone made a plugin for that ages ago (might even have been back in 1.04). It was very sweet indeed and looked awesome. Basically the gorge got a building sprite exactly like the commander gets and could point it and shoot at any buildable surface. The catch was of course that if you put an OC high up, you couldn't reach it, so it had to grow by itself. There were problems though as I recall; damaged chambers tended to fall off, OCs found it hard to shoot. But still, the idea really had a lot of merit.
The problem isn't in OCs themselves, but that half of the OC/web combination is gone. Swapping bile bomb back with web would be a minor change that would place both skills in better positions. Having bile bomb to break entrenched marines at endgame and webs to defend during expansion makes sense. Having bile bomb during a period when a fade is far more effective at the same thing and getting webs after the kharaa are at their strongest doesn't.
So while OCs not targetting by corners (and possibly being lousy shots against jumpers) should be fixed, complaining about OCs themselves is a little like tying mines to the prototype lab and then saying that they're useless. Kharaa have what they need, but not when they need it.
Not that changing gorge costs and so on might not be a change for the better, but it isn't the issue here.
Webs? You mean pretty much the only hive 3 weapon that deserves it's place at hive 3? Web really is a game-ender and shouldn't be moved up. (Although some changes regarding area limit and inability to remove stupid webs need to be made.)
Aliens need an early-game defence to allow them to do more then run from RT to RT trying to defend against rambos.
Offensive webbing was a possible issue, but that can be removed without affecting defensive usages (it's actually a bit strange that the current web is placed to be most useful offensively - there's little need for defensive webbing at endgame). And just as they did before, marines have GLs and welders - and now, hand grenades. I refuse to believe that marines are somehow ill-equiped to handle webs at two hives.
"The only hive 3 weapon that deserves it's place at hive 3" is disputable, but for no reasons that concern Web itself.
And I'm a little confused at how you defend three-hive webs and stress a need for early defense in the same breath.
If web were changed to a 1 second solidify time and then the limits re-upped, I would love them back at hive 2.
Why reup the limit? why not just let the gorge "overwrite" web. AKA taking out the oldest web so the new one may be placed.
Lower the cost to 8, yes, 8...only a very slight cost reduction...buff up the RoF by about 20%, give it about 100-200 armor or so...that's it...nothing more...
Second, add a second kind of OC that the khaara can build...as someone suggested earlier, an OC that shoot spores would be interesting to have...so let's say we have one which is a kind of heavy OC which costs perhaps 15 res to build...however it should be a bit weaker than the OC that we have now (perhaps have 800 hp), slow rate of fire (one shot per 7-8 seconds or so, since the spore cloud will remain for a couple of secs anyway, and the khaara can stack heavy OC's)...basically it'd be a bit like a heavy attillery...decent range, and decent ability to hold an area, but if left on it's own, almost totally useless...
Why reup the limit? why not just let the gorge "overwrite" web. AKA taking out the oldest web so the new one may be placed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because 30 webs for an entire NS map provides very little defense (if that's what we want webs to be). 30 webs for a CS map would be plenty.
Yes to overwriting old webs. Or a per-gorge web limit or something. Some way to get rid of the webs the newb stuck in some obscure corner. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
30 webs in a CO map is probably enough, but definitely not in an NS map. If there was one thing that I could change between CO and NS, it would be that. What amounts to enough webs in an NS map may amount to complete web coverage in CO.