Jetpacks, Resupply And Focus
Rue
Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Members
Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How are they related?</div> I have just finished a few hours of NS:Combat and there is a theme to games that I am sure most people will have noticed. Games that are won by marines are must more likely to be won with Jet Packs rather than HA or LA. This is the reasons I feel are responsible for this.
As things stand marines upgrade to Jet Packs normally after they get a shotgun, and normally by the time the skulks can get to fade. Now if it was just a normal marine with a JP/SG Vs a Fade with Cara/Regen, I would bet that it would be a 60:40 situation with the fade winning a few more battles. Just for the reason that fade can heal its self and jp'er cant.
Now add resupply into the mix, and what do you get? As long as the Fade can’t get two hits into a Jet Packer in quick succession then the Jp'er wins most of the time. Same goes for lerks , with resupply a marine can kill lerks with a shotgun fairly easy. And if he has a jetpack he can fly away far enough to heal before the lerk gets to kill him.
This brings me on to my point:
Resupply in my opinion overpowered for jet packers. The only place a commander can drop ammo/med in normal NS is on the floor and I feel that the resupply in combat should work in the same manner.
The jetpacker <b> must </b> be on the floor to get a med pack or ammo.
I feel this will counter allot of the Jet Packers who currently can stay in the alien hive (in most maps) for extended periods of time and encourage the use of Heavy Amour.
So what’s the solution to killing marines? Well the easiest way is simply to get focus, 2 hits and he’s dead, doesn’t matter if he’s got resupply or not. Even as lerk two hits will kill them.
Although I understand that a lot of players use focus just so they can get good scores, I feel that by taking away mid-air resupply that it would make players less worried about how to counter the Jet Packs and try new ways of winning the game.
Conclusion:
Don’t allow Jet Packers to resupply in mid-air
As things stand marines upgrade to Jet Packs normally after they get a shotgun, and normally by the time the skulks can get to fade. Now if it was just a normal marine with a JP/SG Vs a Fade with Cara/Regen, I would bet that it would be a 60:40 situation with the fade winning a few more battles. Just for the reason that fade can heal its self and jp'er cant.
Now add resupply into the mix, and what do you get? As long as the Fade can’t get two hits into a Jet Packer in quick succession then the Jp'er wins most of the time. Same goes for lerks , with resupply a marine can kill lerks with a shotgun fairly easy. And if he has a jetpack he can fly away far enough to heal before the lerk gets to kill him.
This brings me on to my point:
Resupply in my opinion overpowered for jet packers. The only place a commander can drop ammo/med in normal NS is on the floor and I feel that the resupply in combat should work in the same manner.
The jetpacker <b> must </b> be on the floor to get a med pack or ammo.
I feel this will counter allot of the Jet Packers who currently can stay in the alien hive (in most maps) for extended periods of time and encourage the use of Heavy Amour.
So what’s the solution to killing marines? Well the easiest way is simply to get focus, 2 hits and he’s dead, doesn’t matter if he’s got resupply or not. Even as lerk two hits will kill them.
Although I understand that a lot of players use focus just so they can get good scores, I feel that by taking away mid-air resupply that it would make players less worried about how to counter the Jet Packs and try new ways of winning the game.
Conclusion:
Don’t allow Jet Packers to resupply in mid-air
Comments
1 or 2 jp's with GL's, everyone else SG/HA > all
As things stand marines upgrade to Jet Packs normally after they get a shotgun, and normally by the time the skulks can get to fade. Now if it was just a normal marine with a JP/SG Vs a Fade with Cara/Regen, I would bet that it would be a 60:40 situation with the fade winning a few more battles. Just for the reason that fade can heal its self and jp'er cant.
Now add resupply into the mix, and what do you get? As long as the Fade can’t get two hits into a Jet Packer in quick succession then the Jp'er wins most of the time. Same goes for lerks , with resupply a marine can kill lerks with a shotgun fairly easy. And if he has a jetpack he can fly away far enough to heal before the lerk gets to kill him.
This brings me on to my point:
Resupply in my opinion overpowered for jet packers. The only place a commander can drop ammo/med in normal NS is on the floor and I feel that the resupply in combat should work in the same manner.
The jetpacker <b> must </b> be on the floor to get a med pack or ammo.
I feel this will counter allot of the Jet Packers who currently can stay in the alien hive (in most maps) for extended periods of time and encourage the use of Heavy Amour.
So what’s the solution to killing marines? Well the easiest way is simply to get focus, 2 hits and he’s dead, doesn’t matter if he’s got resupply or not. Even as lerk two hits will kill them.
Although I understand that a lot of players use focus just so they can get good scores, I feel that by taking away mid-air resupply that it would make players less worried about how to counter the Jet Packs and try new ways of winning the game.
Conclusion:
Don’t allow Jet Packers to resupply in mid-air <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, what I concluded from your paragraph (as if I don't play enough combat):
Marines are severly underpowered in combat, as all you need is a fade to counter their highest level of tech (jp) and just two measily swipes on them.
If it's a 10 player server then that's a lot of lerks/fades to dodge, and if they all can bite half-decently then you are talking some major killing of JP's.
Resupply is a great upgrade, it's not overpowered if anything the 'other' upgrades like mines/welders/MT/scanner should be brought up to par with resupply, resupply should not be lowered down to the crappiness of the other two.
Finally, resupply is much slower at later levels... something like 3 seconds a medpack at lv. 10? Which is just insane, if you hit a marine with 100 hp and 0 armor, he will be at 25 or 20 hp (if it was a fade who hits him), and then he needs two medpacks to go back up to full hp and take just one more bite, and two medpacks is 6 seconds, in addition while he is being medded he does not receive ammo.
Jetpacks/Resupply = fine,
what really needs a fix is webs, xeno, and the ability for aliens to keep coming back as large lifeforms and marines not having enough physical ammo to kill it all.
Marines are severly underpowered in combat, as all you need is a fade to counter their highest level of tech (jp) and just two measily swipes on them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades are basically the highest alien life form due to blink. Of course, this only applies to good fades, but when was the last time you saw ANY lifeform besides a fade go 40/5 or better?
The alien balance is full mountains and valleys.
-nerf webs so that they cant be stacked...really i'm always battlegorge, passive webs doesn't take much...but this offensive insta-webbing and moreover multiple webbing (longer paralysed) paralyses every rine-squad!
-Improve/change catpack-usage to give hmg/sg vs onos a boost..manual activation would be great
JP - are good but annoying when run out of fuel.
HA - is decent but your more slower.
The thing is that you should be able to get HA and then work with a group to take out anything that stands in the way. 3-4 people with HA haning around the corner would kill anything that might stand in the way.
If there were JP then you would fly around the place and all of you wouldnt be in a group and make easy targets for fades.
Regards
George
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Didn't you get the memo? This is the new S&I forum for those who feel their ideas are too important to be left in the old S&I forum.
Marines are severly underpowered in combat, as all you need is a fade to counter their highest level of tech (jp) and just two measily swipes on them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades are basically the highest alien life form due to blink. Of course, this only applies to good fades, but when was the last time you saw ANY lifeform besides a fade go 40/5 or better? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos + redemption + carapace + celerity + scent of fear = pure devour kills for the entire game. I usually die about 6 times a round, most of those are skulk deaths. It's near impossible to kill a cara redemp onos unless you're camping the hive.
Thinking outside the box > you?
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Post is not ment to be much of a sugestion , just want to know what you guys think of this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> -Give every marine a welder for free<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't a bad idea, dont know how it would work in practise but it would allow the marines to fix the cc and keep attacking for longer.
Marines are severly underpowered in combat, as all you need is a fade to counter their highest level of tech (jp) and just two measily swipes on them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades are basically the highest alien life form due to blink. Of course, this only applies to good fades, but when was the last time you saw ANY lifeform besides a fade go 40/5 or better? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos + redemption + carapace + celerity + scent of fear = pure devour kills for the entire game. I usually die about 6 times a round, most of those are skulk deaths. It's near impossible to kill a cara redemp onos unless you're camping the hive.
Thinking outside the box > you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played cara+redempt+regen+celerity onos. They still die more then good fades.
JPs wouldn't bother me so much if the spawn system were really fixed.
As things stand marines upgrade to Jet Packs normally after they get a shotgun, and normally by the time the skulks can get to fade. Now if it was just a normal marine with a JP/SG Vs a Fade with Cara/Regen, I would bet that it would be a 60:40 situation with the fade winning a few more battles. Just for the reason that fade can heal its self and jp'er cant.
Now add resupply into the mix, and what do you get? As long as the Fade can’t get two hits into a Jet Packer in quick succession then the Jp'er wins most of the time. Same goes for lerks , with resupply a marine can kill lerks with a shotgun fairly easy. And if he has a jetpack he can fly away far enough to heal before the lerk gets to kill him.
This brings me on to my point:
Resupply in my opinion overpowered for jet packers. The only place a commander can drop ammo/med in normal NS is on the floor and I feel that the resupply in combat should work in the same manner.
The jetpacker <b> must </b> be on the floor to get a med pack or ammo.
I feel this will counter allot of the Jet Packers who currently can stay in the alien hive (in most maps) for extended periods of time and encourage the use of Heavy Amour.
So what’s the solution to killing marines? Well the easiest way is simply to get focus, 2 hits and he’s dead, doesn’t matter if he’s got resupply or not. Even as lerk two hits will kill them.
Although I understand that a lot of players use focus just so they can get good scores, I feel that by taking away mid-air resupply that it would make players less worried about how to counter the Jet Packs and try new ways of winning the game.
Conclusion:
Don’t allow Jet Packers to resupply in mid-air <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
rue, what are we fellow marines supossed to do then? fighting focus is hard allready.
Also resupply currently almost "forces" aliens to get focus
Spore spam doesnt help, it still takes 2 bites to kill em <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> with no armor.
THis needs to be adressed by the dev team balance issue wise
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I want focus taken out, but that will never happen as there isn’t anything to replace it.
So as a solution I would say giving the Jet Packers extra fuel or better movement in the air would help then avoided focus attacks to begin with
As I did say in the last paragraph I don’t see a way to stop players that are just content with getting high scores to stop using focus. I just feel that players who want to improve there skills for classic NS, mainly clan members, will benefit from having this system in place that allows then to take different upgrades and still be effective
I suggest both sides a 3 second invincibility time when spawning in, and whenever an alien spawns back in, he needs to re-evolve all of his upgrades/evolutions. He is also invincible while in egg form. This way, killing an ONOS will actually mean something. The ONOS will need more time to get back into the action. Same idea with Fades.
The marines get no such penalty because they have a timer.
Anotehr idea is remove resupply, while giving all marines a toned-down version of it, and a welder, for free. Outiside of a certain radius of the CC, this resupply will only give a medpack once every 45 seconds or a minute. The rest of the time, it will only give ammo. When near the CC, the resupply works like it does now.
In return, aliens can no longer get regeneration as an upgrade. Fades also can't get metabolize. Instead, they can skip straight to acid rocket.
Now, JPers will definitely not last a minute inside a hiveroom unless the aliens are really incompetent, and the auto-comm rarely hands out medpacks, making focus not that important.
[snip]...
Conclusion:
Don’t allow Jet Packers to resupply in mid-air <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[snip]...
Jetpacks/Resupply = fine, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
^^
Although the idea of letting marines max out at level 12 to deal with alien tech is a idea worth further discussion
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I want focus taken out, but that will never happen as there isn’t anything to replace it.
So as a solution I would say giving the Jet Packers extra fuel or better movement in the air would help then avoided focus attacks to begin with
As I did say in the last paragraph I don’t see a way to stop players that are just content with getting high scores to stop using focus. I just feel that players who want to improve there skills for classic NS, mainly clan members, will benefit from having this system in place that allows then to take different upgrades and still be effective <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then I want the shotgun removed. Do you know how HARD it is to counter a shotgunner as anything besides fade or Onos? Dont complain about Focus being "amazing" when you have something that kills almost everything in 1 shot. they both cost 2 XP points in co_ (oh i mean, SHotgun costs 2, focus cost's 3). How hard is it for you to bring up the menu, click armor 1, and have a skulk take 2 bites off you, when you have a shotgun which fires 2x as fast and is 100000x more powerful. And comamnders go armor 1 not even 5 minutes into a classic game, and anyhow if aliens get sensory they usually end up losing in the end.
I really worrying about the community lately, all they want is to nerf aliens beyond existance even MORE and bash them in topics and threads constantly. Stop stacking marines, PLAY aliens. And look for suggestions to BALANCE the game, not Nerf the aliens so much NOBODY bothers to play them anymore then they do now.
They have focus? you have shotgun
They have onos? you have hmg (did you know a level 1 hmg only takes 1 full clip to kill an onos at hive 2?) sad isnt it?
they have spores? you have HA
they have a good fade or onos? you complain on how aliens are soo "overpowered" because you, ALL by yourself couldnt kill them.
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I want focus taken out, but that will never happen as there isn’t anything to replace it.
So as a solution I would say giving the Jet Packers extra fuel or better movement in the air would help then avoided focus attacks to begin with
As I did say in the last paragraph I don’t see a way to stop players that are just content with getting high scores to stop using focus. I just feel that players who want to improve there skills for classic NS, mainly clan members, will benefit from having this system in place that allows then to take different upgrades and still be effective <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then I want the shotgun removed. Do you know how HARD it is to counter a shotgunner as anything besides fade or Onos? Dont complain about Focus being "amazing" when you have something that kills almost everything in 1 shot. they both cost 2 XP points in co_ (oh i mean, SHotgun costs 2, focus cost's 3). How hard is it for you to bring up the menu, click armor 1, and have a skulk take 2 bites off you, when you have a shotgun which fires 2x as fast and is 100000x more powerful. And comamnders go armor 1 not even 5 minutes into a classic game, and anyhow if aliens get sensory they usually end up losing in the end.
I really worrying about the community lately, all they want is to nerf aliens beyond existance even MORE and bash them in topics and threads constantly. Stop stacking marines, PLAY aliens. And look for suggestions to BALANCE the game, not Nerf the aliens so much NOBODY bothers to play them anymore then they do now.
They have focus? you have shotgun
They have onos? you have hmg (did you know a level 1 hmg only takes 1 full clip to kill an onos at hive 2?) sad isnt it?
they have spores? you have HA
they have a good fade or onos? you complain on how aliens are soo "overpowered" because you, ALL by yourself couldnt kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realize that hive heals something like 15% of your hp a tick, right?
Onos take such a beating at the hive it's easier to kill the hive.
I like the idea of resupply only working on the ground. Would it go into effect as soon as you hit the ground? Or would you have to wait around a second? I know that as comm the way for me to get jpers is to leave the ammo and meds on a ledge where they can land and get it.
About lerk... the reason the bite is so weak (I think) is because of focus. Imagine lerks with 1 hit kills swooping in on you. It'd be awful. Which is why it has a crappy bite. Jpers routinely blast lerks out of the sky, the shotgun does more damage and has a longer range.
But any stronger bite would make them lame against normal marines!
So... how about lerks do more damage to jpers? They'd gain that edge they need to truly become a jp counter.
Anyway as for you worrying about the community, you just keep doing so and the rest of us will try and develop ways of makes aliens better and more balanced.
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I like the idea of resupply only working on the ground. Would it go into effect as soon as you hit the ground? Or would you have to wait around a second?
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I would say about 1/2 a second, enough time for him to be attacked
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About lerk... the reason the bite is so weak (I think) is because of focus. Imagine lerks with 1 hit kills swooping in on you. It'd be awful. Which is why it has a crappy bite. Jpers routinely blast lerks out of the sky, the shotgun does more damage and has a longer range.
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As a few topics have said, even in Beta Discussion forum, lerk bite does 60(or 65 i forget) damage a time and is fast too. So it’s not a bad weapon. The thing that makes it hard is actually tracking the JP'er in the air or being too weak (Health/Amour) to attack ground targets with SG's
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So... how about lerks do more damage to jpers? They'd gain that edge they need to truly become a jp counter.
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Just like turrets to 1/2 to onos, I like this idea; it would make the lerk considerably better as a jet packer counter without the need for focus