Holy Hell...
The_Seer
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5250Members
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5250Members
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/me takes breath.
HHAHAHAHHHHAAHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHHHHHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHAHHAAHAHHHAHAHAH
ITS PAYBACK TIME... not to mention FADE time
we all knew the marines were gonna come on the board and start spurting..... "THIS IS UNFAIR!!!!!!!!"
I think its because the alien players are more experianced... because under opression we have deveolped much faster in techniques.
Mind you it might not work with 10+ skulks, but still, if they actully work together and cover the doors/vents/whatever, early game defeats are much more difficult to get.
this is just the beginning of the nerfing!! and totally justified!!
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i say w00t!! go NS team for getting the patch out so soon.
It's just that if you don't have incredible aim and inredible teamwork skills, 10 organized Skulks constantly bashing your base not only forces you to stay at your base to defend it, but the alien resource points keeps going up, and before you know it, you're trapped in your own base.
I don't disagree with this patch at all, I love it, the aliens are almost always screwed late game, and this will help solve it. It's just... not one single marine advantage came in this patch. I thought the game was pretty balanced as is, so this just came as a shock to me.
I know I'm coming off as a Marine newbie here, but I'm not. I'm serious. C'mon!1
Oh well, I'll just say... wait and see!
say a 6 men team of marine.
1 goes commander
1 goes build
4 goes guarding.
done deal <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
First five minutes. Aliens coordinate, there's usually 6 or more on each team I've played on today. They attack as soon as they can. They know where the marine base is, and just keep continuing to attack until it becomes too hard because of turrets. Half of them go gorge, a couple gorges save up for hives, the rest build defenses outside the Marine base, and build resource towers everywhere else. Aliens camp outside the base, and the gorges heal their towers, this continues on for about 10 minutes, the marines usually get somewhere, but never manage to secure a hive. Fades with bile bombs and Onos stomping our bases = Game over Marines.
I played at least 15 games today, not one Marine win. I played two games since the patch came out, both alien wins. The marines had enough coordination, almost all the times I played there were constant attacks of groups of marines of 5 or more, and no newbie commanders. Got stomped everytime.
Aliens are rushing, yes, but there's nothing that can be done about it except to be prepared. And it is a valid tactic. A quick fix might be that, only at the start of the game, the marine players start out with full ammo for the LMG. Inside the base, with the combined firepower and full ammo, that could stop a rush since marines aren't running out of ammo before the armory gets built. It also fits with the story since Frontiersmen would probably enter a ship with full ammo anyway.
Once they go outside the base, there's less marines nearby and places to ambush the marines, so a few quick alien kills will get rid of that full clip of ammo. By then the armory will be up for the marine to use after he respawns.
*plays as marines for 20 minutes*
Wow, this patch is some serious overcompensation.
I should open my own psychic number ...
be like Miss Cleo ...
"I nu et was comin! Ets in da cards!"
You complain and complain and wont listen that its an RP bug.
You complain and complain that it has to be the number of turrets, or the HMG's power or - what ever.
This is what happens when changes are made on a broken resource system.
All I can say is, enjoy the ride, perhaps Flayra will tweak it again in the somewhat near furture.
Early game can be fixed easily, if the marines know what they are doing, they won't lose their spawn points or CC. A full clip is a good idea, but I'm not really worried about the first 2 minutes of the game, I'm talking about 3 minutes to 10 minutes into the game when the aliens are busy keeping the Marines busy while the rest of the map is being populated by everything, and if there's a gorge nearby, taking out towers isn't exactly easy with an LMG. It's not really the fault of the Marines, it's the aliens forcing them to turtle, not the Marines turtling themselves.
Sure, there's defenses against this, the same way there was defenses against Marines as Aliens. It's like the tables totally turned here. And for the last time, I'm not dissing anything!111!!1!! I'm an alien player feeling sorry for the marine players, not a marine player wishing I can win all the time with the least amount of skill.
I'll try to break it down as clearly as Humanly possible. All I ask is that you keep an open mind here. But first, here is what I am NOT asking for.
Tougher turrets.
Better HMGs and nade launchers.
Aliens dying quicker.
Less skill involved.
Less teamwork involved.
Alright? Okay? Thank you.
The Marines have pretty much one option in the first two minutes. Assign a commander and build infantry portals, then other necessities. When aliens are rushing the base, an armory and turrets are a MUST HAVE. Don't argue with that. Don't you dare. So most of the resources are spent, but the base is defended, now there's two things marines can do. Stay at base and defend and wait for upgrades, or go out and get resource towers and/or kill other resource towers/guys. Maybe, just maybe, try and take out their hive, but that's pretty much never effective if the aliens have more than 3 players.
If the Humans turtle, the aliens dominate and win the game. If the Humans go out looking for resource towers, they are met with even more offensive players from the other team. Now unless the alien players suck and/or the Human players never get hit and take out these aliens with perfect ease, they waste a little bit of time trying to advance further.
This is where the problem starts, by stalling the Marines for so long by doing these attacks, the Marines have to work together and go ONE way while the aliens go EVERYWHERE and start expanding and getting resources like mad. The ONLY option I find is to secure a hive, so you can protect the bases you do HAVE, so you can take out the other resource towers and expand your own base and dominate the map. Is it really so hard to understand that the aliens have it easier in this aspect? Is it really? Why are people yelling at me to encourage Human teamwork, when the aliens don't really need it? In fact, their strategy consists in GETTING the Humans to work together.
The thing is, I don't know of a fix for this, weaker alien turrets would make everyone throw a fit. Perhaps a commander can get an early weapon that's effective at taking out lone offensive chambers, like a regular grenade or something. You guys decide. The aliens have it easier in this aspect if they keep the Marines on their toes. This is a strategy, and a very well respected strategy, but there's just too few defenses against it besides turtling and taking it slowly, which... results in ultimate doom.
Thank you for your time.
What the hell servers have YOU been playing on?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe the same ones I have <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
When I first played NS I thought it was the most unbalanced game in christendom. I perservered however, and aside from teh Fade being underpowered (now fixed in 1.01), it's not really that unbalanced at all.
I play with a friend on a set up public servers, where we educate most people on tactics we've picked up and seem to work, as well as finding a couple of people here and there that have gotten over the 'OMG ALIEnS SUCKS!!!8123' syndrome, and, well, all I can say is no more Marines <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's not as tough as everyone says it is.
The balance was fine before. Aliens had no trouble taking out turrets if they'ld stop spamming voice chat for 5 seconds and work together. I played a server earlier today where a group of 4 Kharaa took down a small turret forest backed up by marines in just a few minutes. Operative word there being <b>group</b>. Work together, and the marines don't stand a chance.
All that needed fixing was the teams and the resourcing, but Nooooooooo. Couldn't leave well enough alone.
I thought the pre-patch would be just absolutely fine, if they fixed the autobalance issue, and almost all the Forumers started agreeing, but now that they Khaara are stronger, everybody's immediately siding with the patch. Excuse me if I get slight hints of Forumers sucking up.
Marines need to learn that there is safety in numbers.... before i would see maybe 1 or 2... the fact is the marines need to learn to form a UNIT.
sending guys in 5 different directions on a map will get them all killed by people like me....
Marines need to move out after first turrets are built... AS A GROUP... get to the next node/hive etc... I have no qualms about taking on a lone marine... but 5 is much harder to deal with.
Marines had it easy .. I know I did with the server mods tweaked... so they just blew everything up.. they needed alot less skill to win...
During this time of marine ownage... we aliens started to learn our tactics.. how to move.. how to beat the unstoppable machine .. we learned hit and run and how to use our enviroments..
Marines ive run up against still seem to think that just by sheer offensive power they can take the map. First.. Marines... LOOK up for godsakes..
I think we will see another change soon.. just like the aliens started winning on servers on the 2nd day or so.. the marines will start to have better tactics... just let it sit.. and dont POKE THE DEVS!
Before the patch, on almost every server I've been on, the marines have always laughed with superiority at the "whining" that all the aliens do. I have a feeling that now, I wont be seeing 2:1 odds in the Marines favour, but either even teams, or even 2:1 odds in the Aliens favour.
Take care all.
Give'm hell
LS
1) game comes out. average marine skill > average alien skill, marines beat aliens.
2) commanders start getting better, Marine skill > alien skill.
3) resource bug develops and is put to full use. marines beat aliens 99% of the time. But marine skill is still just above alien skill
4) in response to imbalances, pure alien players start really concentrating on tactics like rushing, diversions, etc. They get good because they have to to atleast survive. Alien skill > marine skill, but marines still win because of imbalances.
5) patch comes out. Imbalances gone. Alien skill > marine skill. now Aliens win alot.
6) one week from now, marines will have developed teamwork and tactics against overwhelming odds, just as aliens did. marine skill = alien skill...all is well in the world.