That unfortunaly I don't have the answer to. I've helped admin servers, but not actually run the boxes themselves. To my understanding all servers have a log file, that gets overwritten after a certain amount of time.
As far as compiling stats is concerned, what usually happens is a Stats Decompiler (say Psycostats) scans this log file, and based on flags in the code pulls the data your looking for. Wins/losses, length of the games, how many players, date/time, all that stuff.
As for what the log file is actually called and how to access that, I don't know <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Our servers logs show that marines are winning 58% of all games and the average game time is 13 minutes.
During our unchained chambers 24 hour testing period, Marine wins shot up to 76% during 50 games.
Average team size is 9 for both sides which usually makes for a fair game (for public servers.)
And about NSA's server - I've played there and from what I saw, the aliens either don't try or they dominate, depending on how the admins stack (yes, they stack. and so do I on occasion)
My server runs a force random plugin that nobody what team you choose, you're forced into random. While this doesn't totally prevent stacking it does very well against it, especially with admins on watching for F4's and Reconnects. So these stats aren't biased towards stacked teams.
So in my conclusion I'd say that it's still very balanced how the games turnout, it's all about teamwork. If one team works better together than the other, then the teamwork prevails. Unless of course there's skill stack.
Another note - My server runs NS classic 99% of the time, so very little of this is from combat.
<!--QuoteBegin-Icejelly+Jun 26 2004, 03:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Icejelly @ Jun 26 2004, 03:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fURiOUS gEOrGE+Jun 26 2004, 01:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fURiOUS gEOrGE @ Jun 26 2004, 01:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> to the ppl who thought this wasnt enough info/stats.....didnt he say he was gonna keep updating it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "those people" who thought so meant that the statistics that recoup is laying out is insufficient due to the fact that they come from ONE server.
There must be atleast a hundred thousand servers out there that has NS running on it. Taking stats from ONE out of all that servers is really not an accurate way to prove that aliens are overpowered and stuff. It's like saying the whole basket of apples are rotten because there is one rotten apple in it. You get my drift? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes i get your drift; i actually was the first to suggest using other servers. i assumed he would take this advice and use other servers when adding his next batch of data.
didnt read page two, but i read the whole other thread, and i think semi-psychotic made the best point so far: Newbs stack marines. Always. Every server you join, going marines is almost impossible, because theres 600 noobs waiting to join. All the regs, vets, etc. are generally forced to go alien because they dont want to wait 10 minutes to join marine.
<!--QuoteBegin-RiotingNerd+Jul 4 2004, 04:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RiotingNerd @ Jul 4 2004, 04:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> didnt read page two, but i read the whole other thread, and i think semi-psychotic made the best point so far: Newbs stack marines. Always. Every server you join, going marines is almost impossible, because theres 600 noobs waiting to join. All the regs, vets, etc. are generally forced to go alien because they dont want to wait 10 minutes to join marine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to believe that, but I see a lot of clanners / non-newbs stack marines too. Basically the marine door is always full, but it's not always newbs.
I'd just like to point out that in every single <i>professional</i> statisctics gathering and analysis the person who does the sample gathering and person who does the actual analysis are two different people. What I see so far is one person actually taking his time to gather statistics, and then a bunch of people that want to see certain changes that these staticstics go against begin a flaming war. "Too small sample group", "Bad server", "you don't read them right".... bah. Honestly, look at yourselves. Recoup is providing a service to community and you just whine about his statistics not matching your beliefs, instead of trying to analyse why they don't match, or gather a sample of your own. Recoup: nice work. No matter what anyone says, the sample gathered by hand is always the best kind, as it allows for personal commentary on what, when or why when wrong/right in particular games. Automatised process can only report the results, and you have to guess the actual cause in the end. I would very much like to see the list continued, with new stats edited into the first post, so I don't have to read through half of the page worth of borderline flames just to see the next sample group. Unfortunately, I happen to share your opinion that aliens are quite well balanced for public play, as long as they actually communicate and don't play solo, so most of the critics will probably ignore my vote of confidence.
Recoup: thanks for putting the effort in to gather these statistics. As long as you're doing it I'd suggest getting a little more detailed information, like which team won on specific maps and some indicator for "stacked" losses, and vary servers. It'd be easier to make a spreadsheet with the relevant info, or ask for server stat outputs (if they're available) and maybe get someone to help you with a parsing program if there's nothing out there.
That said, IMO, stats aren't really the answer to much (and I'm a mathematician, hehe), especially in NS, but if it's something that interests you it certainly makes your arguments more compelling than the average whines.
Don't listen to the bitter trolls who are too busy with their heads up an Onos to at least refrain from detracting an honest-to-goodness effort to supply facts to go along with their conjectures.
I don't see how you come to the conclusion the games alien biased from a bunch of public stats from random people. I just hope the dev team don't take any notice of some of the utter crap posted on here.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kickarse+Jul 7 2004, 08:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kickarse @ Jul 7 2004, 08:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't see how you come to the conclusion the games alien biased from a bunch of public stats from random people. I just hope the dev team don't take any notice of some of the utter crap posted on here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Regardless of the fact that I do disagree with the hasty asumptions based on this data, scientific stats have shown time and time again that the 'random' factor in polls and statistics is the best way of gathering pseudo-accurate data for the GENERALIZED target population. If you wish to use stats that will prove a point for competitive play only then you obviously use only competitive games as a basis. Since, however, the competitive population is a stark minority of the general population it would make sense to gather data from 'a bunch of public stats from random people' thus ensuring generalized, non-biased data. Of course this means that the only observations you can make will only be applicable to the generalized game where the population of a server is ideally an evenly spread sampling of the generalized population. This is rarely the case, if ever, and would suggest that any observations made with this data are inevitably useless anyways. The only time that this data might actually show something that might need to be addressed is by showing some aggregious bias towards one team or another (like aliens generally winning 90% of the time).
Nevertheless, the point is that random sampling DOES serve a useful purpose, but most here are trying to use it out of context. I don't blame them though, the same thing happens in everyday life with polls and statistics anyway. It happens almost daily concerning politics and media "opinion" citing some statistic or poll.
Here's an interesting stat for all of you: The #1 symptom of any problem is that people are involved. If people create, use, modify, or destroy something you can pretty much be guaranteed that something went wrong. Unfortunately removing people from the picture removes the purpose for that creation, use, modification, or destruction. Thusly we can inject, "The universe would be a much better/worse place if <insert your name here> never existed". And from that statement we can simplify through negation and conclude, "The universe would be pretty much the same if <insert your name here> never existed". Isn't logic grand ^^.
Statistics surly dont tell the truth but they will give you hints and proper mined data will allow to take conclusion out of the result.
Because of the many discussion about the balance at 3.0 Beta 3 on my own server i created a tool to pump the log files into a sql-server and parse the lines for datamining. So i can create a RoundLog with playing time, what team won, count of kills, count of destroyed structures and so on.
<!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 13 2004, 09:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 13 2004, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The public players matter too. Don't just balance for the competitive players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Competitive players play on pubs too. You have to balance for them because they're the ones who are balance stressors. The thing to not forget is to make it FUN for newer players as well as competitive players.
Comments
As far as compiling stats is concerned, what usually happens is a Stats Decompiler (say Psycostats) scans this log file, and based on flags in the code pulls the data your looking for. Wins/losses, length of the games, how many players, date/time, all that stuff.
As for what the log file is actually called and how to access that, I don't know <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My server admin has informed me of the following-
Our servers logs show that marines are winning 58% of all games and the average game time is 13 minutes.
During our unchained chambers 24 hour testing period, Marine wins shot up to 76% during 50 games.
Average team size is 9 for both sides which usually makes for a fair game (for public servers.)
And about NSA's server - I've played there and from what I saw, the aliens either don't try or they dominate, depending on how the admins stack (yes, they stack. and so do I on occasion)
My server runs a force random plugin that nobody what team you choose, you're forced into random. While this doesn't totally prevent stacking it does very well against it, especially with admins on watching for F4's and Reconnects. So these stats aren't biased towards stacked teams.
So in my conclusion I'd say that it's still very balanced how the games turnout, it's all about teamwork. If one team works better together than the other, then the teamwork prevails. Unless of course there's skill stack.
Another note - My server runs NS classic 99% of the time, so very little of this is from combat.
"those people" who thought so meant that the statistics that recoup is laying out is insufficient due to the fact that they come from ONE server.
There must be atleast a hundred thousand servers out there that has NS running on it. Taking stats from ONE out of all that servers is really not an accurate way to prove that aliens are overpowered and stuff. It's like saying the whole basket of apples are rotten because there is one rotten apple in it. You get my drift? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes i get your drift; i actually was the first to suggest using other servers. i assumed he would take this advice and use other servers when adding his next batch of data.
I'd like to believe that, but I see a lot of clanners / non-newbs stack marines too. Basically the marine door is always full, but it's not always newbs.
Recoup: nice work. No matter what anyone says, the sample gathered by hand is always the best kind, as it allows for personal commentary on what, when or why when wrong/right in particular games. Automatised process can only report the results, and you have to guess the actual cause in the end. I would very much like to see the list continued, with new stats edited into the first post, so I don't have to read through half of the page worth of borderline flames just to see the next sample group.
Unfortunately, I happen to share your opinion that aliens are quite well balanced for public play, as long as they actually communicate and don't play solo, so most of the critics will probably ignore my vote of confidence.
That said, IMO, stats aren't really the answer to much (and I'm a mathematician, hehe), especially in NS, but if it's something that interests you it certainly makes your arguments more compelling than the average whines.
Don't listen to the bitter trolls who are too busy with their heads up an Onos to at least refrain from detracting an honest-to-goodness effort to supply facts to go along with their conjectures.
Regardless of the fact that I do disagree with the hasty asumptions based on this data, scientific stats have shown time and time again that the 'random' factor in polls and statistics is the best way of gathering pseudo-accurate data for the GENERALIZED target population. If you wish to use stats that will prove a point for competitive play only then you obviously use only competitive games as a basis. Since, however, the competitive population is a stark minority of the general population it would make sense to gather data from 'a bunch of public stats from random people' thus ensuring generalized, non-biased data. Of course this means that the only observations you can make will only be applicable to the generalized game where the population of a server is ideally an evenly spread sampling of the generalized population. This is rarely the case, if ever, and would suggest that any observations made with this data are inevitably useless anyways. The only time that this data might actually show something that might need to be addressed is by showing some aggregious bias towards one team or another (like aliens generally winning 90% of the time).
Nevertheless, the point is that random sampling DOES serve a useful purpose, but most here are trying to use it out of context. I don't blame them though, the same thing happens in everyday life with polls and statistics anyway. It happens almost daily concerning politics and media "opinion" citing some statistic or poll.
Here's an interesting stat for all of you: The #1 symptom of any problem is that people are involved. If people create, use, modify, or destroy something you can pretty much be guaranteed that something went wrong. Unfortunately removing people from the picture removes the purpose for that creation, use, modification, or destruction. Thusly we can inject, "The universe would be a much better/worse place if <insert your name here> never existed". And from that statement we can simplify through negation and conclude, "The universe would be pretty much the same if <insert your name here> never existed". Isn't logic grand ^^.
Because of the many discussion about the balance at 3.0 Beta 3 on my own server i created a tool to pump the log files into a sql-server and parse the lines for datamining. So i can create a RoundLog with playing time, what team won, count of kills, count of destroyed structures and so on.
<img src='http://a.1asphost.com/scylla/images/hllogsql/hllogsql10_001.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://a.1asphost.com/scylla/images/hllogsql/hllogsql10_002.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://a.1asphost.com/scylla/images/hllogsql/hllogsql10_003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Competitive players play on pubs too. You have to balance for them because they're the ones who are balance stressors. The thing to not forget is to make it FUN for newer players as well as competitive players.