aonomusDedicated NS Mastermind (no need for school)Join Date: 2003-11-26Member: 23605Members, Constellation
I'm all in support of this, it'd be cool to have people actually train new players, I myself came into this community and had to learn NS on my own and then I started posting on forums which was a blessing and a curse... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/
<!--QuoteBegin-kuperaye+Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kuperaye @ Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...
For the record: NSGuides cannot(at the moment) private message people ingame. It is a feature that may be reimplemented, but as of right now its not actually coded in the game. =I
We are going to be going through 70 + applications shortly, once the program is launched fully, then we will begin to accept applications from people again.
<!--QuoteBegin-raiN-+Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raiN- @ Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the record: NSGuides cannot(at the moment) private message people ingame. It is a feature that may be reimplemented, but as of right now its not actually coded in the game. =I <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 2 2004, 08:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 2 2004, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-raiN-+Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raiN- @ Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the record: NSGuides cannot(at the moment) private message people ingame. It is a feature that may be reimplemented, but as of right now its not actually coded in the game. =I <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe an Icon? hmm
<!--QuoteBegin-l3igD+Jul 2 2004, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (l3igD @ Jul 2 2004, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 2 2004, 08:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 2 2004, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-raiN-+Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raiN- @ Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the record: NSGuides cannot(at the moment) private message people ingame. It is a feature that may be reimplemented, but as of right now its not actually coded in the game. =I <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe an Icon? hmm <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, icons to someone new to NS is like, "muh bbq?"
I'm a little bewildered by your attitude here, Lorn.
Here we have a program that's currently in the progress of being set up, which means of course that there are not yet enough Guides around, but that's got direct support from the devs, as the icon and the re-activatable features (the green text should still be in the chat code, only not assigned to an auth-group) indicate, that's creating a whole hub for newbies, complete with a dedicated sub-site to ns.org, training servers, and a custom tailored map, that ensures that no jerks become Guides by the means of selection practices that <i>I</i> consider too harsh, and you keep poking on its flaws. Of course the program isn't perfect - it has not even fully launched yet. How about we wait six months until after it did, look at what it accomplished, and then discuss its merits?
I notice a lack of information regarding the Nsguides as a whole. On the LM server yesterday we had about 10 Nsguides, alongside a few vets PT's and CMs. Major Icon stack. People did infact keep asking what the purple icon was. One or two people got it completely wrong and suggested it was the icon of a donator to the server, (as quite a number of servers use that icon for this purpose).
Can you provide some links for those wishing to sign up when you are accepting applications again? I'm having a hard time finding anything about them apart from the #nsguides IRC channel.
Helping people in a server can often be a thankless job. Frequently the 'nub' will say, "I KNOW THAT!" and be pissy towards you if you try to tell him how to do things.
By implimenting the guide program you've justified your efforts. You're with a group of people of a likeminded mentality: helping. The Guide program helps create an atmosphere for productivity and aides in re-immerging spirit and dedication to a group of people. This group of people in turn helps the rest of this community.
Your point that any regular person can help a nubby is valid. The point is that its only so long before that person loses faith, gets irritable, annoyed, or gets yelled at by the people who he's trying to help. By placing that same person in the NS Guide program they no longer seek justification for their selfless acts from the people they help, they have a whole group to do that. It helps put faith back in people.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jul 3 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jul 3 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that ensures that no jerks become Guides by the means of selection practices that <i>I</i> consider too harsh, and you keep poking on its flaws. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its true, I was a candidate for the guides program but I got the boot after I came into a server with the name "yuck yuck ima <f bomb>", and when asked to change my name, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima <modified f bomb>", and when asked again, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima fux". About two hours later I found out I was dropped. And I was pretty enthusiastic about becoming a guide and bringing new players into the game <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
im seriously considering applying (once they are accepting apps again), although nem0's description of the selection process scares me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because of the fact that it is often used for reserved slots, I had the worst experience ever. I came into the game as [NSGuides] Vinin, looking around for people to help. So I start playing, and people ask what my icon stands for. I tell them, I'm a guide, I'm here to help new players adjust to the game. What bewilders me is what two people say right after. "Don't listen to him, hes just one of those guys that helped ruin the game." "Oh thats just an a** pride symbol." I was so dumbstruck that I didn't know what to say.
<!--QuoteBegin-Vinin+Jul 3 2004, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vinin @ Jul 3 2004, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because of the fact that it is often used for reserved slots, I had the worst experience ever. I came into the game as [NSGuides] Vinin, looking around for people to help. So I start playing, and people ask what my icon stands for. I tell them, I'm a guide, I'm here to help new players adjust to the game. What bewilders me is what two people say right after. "Don't listen to him, hes just one of those guys that helped ruin the game." "Oh thats just an a** pride symbol." I was so dumbstruck that I didn't know what to say. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would probably do the same. I don't even know what that first "comment" meant. How did a NSGuide/Reserved Slotter ruin the game?
<!--QuoteBegin-l3igD+Jul 4 2004, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (l3igD @ Jul 4 2004, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Alot of servers use the NSguide icon for their reserved slot icon. So, some people think we are reserved slots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, now that we've established something already stated, I still don't understand how NSguides (or Supposed "Reverse Slotters") ruined the game.
Problem is, NSguides isn't really respected. People don't take advice from other people they do not respect.
While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons
A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little.
B) Not everyone wants to be helped.
Thats why I setup #nslearn so people can ask questions, and we'll show the latest tactics, and tricks from the top competive players in the community, as opposed to us going and preaching in servers.
Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game is still confusing.. Maybe even more confusing because of combat.. Alot of "newbs" play CO and they have no clue about NS.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 4 2004, 06:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 4 2004, 06:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Problem is, NSguides isn't really respected. People don't take advice from other people they do not respect.
While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons
A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little.
B) Not everyone wants to be helped.
Thats why I setup #nslearn so people can ask questions, and we'll show the latest tactics, and tricks from the top competive players in the community, as opposed to us going and preaching in servers.
Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I dont think you are actually thinking about what your saying. We are talking about people who just got the game or have been starting to play it recently. Lets think now...are these people going to have a clue about anyones reputation? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> Furthermore, we are not here to push them into thinking the way we do. We are here to help teach them the elements in the game to let them develop their own methods.
"A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little."
You are so arrogant. You talk about how people THINK they know the game, but you are also one of those people. You dont understand the game is here to have fun and play it the way you want it to be played.
"B) Not everyone wants to be helped."
Your right for once, on that one.
"Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful."
Here's your answer: An obligation to help. It really is as simple as that. Guides are 'on duty' so to speak all the time - if we are around, we are expected to help. We are expected to (an extent) leave other things and go out of our way to help.
You are not.
No one is saying you can't or shouldn't - you should be encouraged to - the more people that help out the better, but the simple difference is when you don't feel like helping, you don't have to. You can either tell the beginner to F-off, or just keep quiet and carry on acting as if they aren't there.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 4 2004, 01:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 4 2004, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Problem is, NSguides isn't really respected. People don't take advice from other people they do not respect.
While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons
A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little.
B) Not everyone wants to be helped.
Thats why I setup #nslearn so people can ask questions, and we'll show the latest tactics, and tricks from the top competive players in the community, as opposed to us going and preaching in servers.
Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Problem is, NSguides isn't really respected. People don't take advice from other people they do not respect."
I'm not even sure what angle you're coming from towards the guides program with this, any chance that you could clarify/justify this?
"While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. "
There was me thinking that if you wanted people who want help to come to you, you'd seek support from dev's or maybe even the already existing guide group - but don't let common sense get the better of me. I mean, ns guides is going to have things in the setup installer (nice idea btw 'lorn), links on the downloads page ("Installing NS for the first time? .. check out blahblah) and also stuff which comes up in the autohelp boxes actually ingame. Oh and also a bit of traffic from the official #naturalselection channel on gamesurge, AND from #naturalselection quakenet. (Expect the system to be branching out to other IRC networks/communities soon, I've been really busy with things IRL as of recently but I'm getting back into getting the guides stuff launched properly, now that we have access to guide.n-s.org and also icon access). Also, I noticed the fact that you wrote "<i>my</i> program" there, who else are you doing this program with? Just the way you wrote it seemed to be fairly self-centred, selfish almost, as if it's yours and nobodies else.
"The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons"
Good thing that we've got servers in the works for people who are new to the game, which are going to be running ns_training maps then, coupled with a guide manual (yes, yes another manual) which is going to be using lots of very easy to take in (and very pretty I might add) flash components.
"Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful."
As opposed to your forum sig? Newbies whine, Veterans adapt eh? Give it a break..
I didn't know dev support was required to run a training program. If that were true BFTG wouldn't be in existence.
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest?
If I could ask you all one favor, it would be please give NSGuides a chance before you complain about the program, or anyone’s involvement in it. Thank you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 1 2004, 09:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 1 2004, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Jojoshua+Jul 1 2004, 07:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Jul 1 2004, 07:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 2 2004, 12:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 2 2004, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HAMBONE+Jul 1 2004, 07:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Jul 1 2004, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> just for the record since I dont think that this has been posted yet, NSGuides can message/whisper individual players on a server with different colored text(green?), or at least they used to be able to. So it is a bit different <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would be useful if it was true. Can an NSGuide confirm this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, thats correct. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow. Stuff like that should really be public, it makes the NSGuides seem a lot more than an organization with an icon for a gimmick.
Even still, there's no guarentee that the person will be receptive to the green text, and again the largest problem would be that NSGuides are probably only .01% of the times they could be. Which would be solved by a roster of something alone the lines of 200. In that case, I'll just wait a see.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Example #1
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 2 2004, 09:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 2 2004, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-raiN-+Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raiN- @ Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the record: NSGuides cannot(at the moment) private message people ingame. It is a feature that may be reimplemented, but as of right now its not actually coded in the game. =I <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Example #2
Frolorn, first you say “there's no guarentee that the person will be receptive to the green text” (Example #1), then upon learning that it has yet to be implemented you say that if we don’t have green text then all will be lost (Example #2). You are making points that are very contradictory. Is this post just to stir up some drama, or try to ruin a group of new player helpers before we are off our feet, or what? My comment to you is the same it has been to many others who say things like this, please give us a chance.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-kuperaye+Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kuperaye @ Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p.s. I love your comment Bob, that was just awesome. BTW we have a very extensive interview process so that we find people who are not explosive in nature, and find people who are very knowledgeable, patient, and trust worthy. We have to trust them to upholding our reputation, and what a guide stands for, help new people at difficult times, or in difficult situations, and just have patience. We are a no-nonsense group, we will not tolerate people who do not abide by the rules we have laid down, and we are trying very hard to make this go around a successful one. We have this extensive process, and extensive rules because we do not want to worry about our guides flaming people in servers, or flaming people on forums. We want credibility, and we need the backing of the whole community in order for this program to be successful. I don’t know about you but the diminishing of the clanscene is depressing to me, and the more NSPlayers who make it through the learning process, the more clans that will be made, and the longer NS will live etc. We all want to help, and we all can, not just guides.
To tie up a few loose ends: Even I admit that anyone can help, well it is true. Everyone can help in game to answer questions, anyone can idle in #NSGuides to help the new people who come around. You are correct in that matter, and we appreciate the support and the willingness to help. The reason though that there is an organization to help is because organization brings results, and efficiency. So many people like pugging, let me use this example of how organization works.
Pre NSPug, in order to start a pug I (because everyone else was too lazy) had to spam all the channels I was in with “join #Pug-for-fun when we have 12 players we will look for a server.” It would take at least 30 minutes from when I started advertising to when we started playing, and this was during the peak pugging time, so what I am saying is 30 minutes was a fast pug starting time. In that time I had to notify that I was looking to start a pug, gain the necessary amount of players, find a server, and get everyone onto the server. It was a pain, and it took a long time to start, and myself and maybe one or two other people would try to get these games started, because it was such a time consuming process, and it didn’t always give the result you were looking for, a successful pug. Now in the time it would take for me to look for a group to play with, 3-4 pugs could have already started on NSPug. That is organization, and what it can do for you. Nspug came from the background I explained above into what it is now, it’s amazing what some time and effort can do. Please give NSGuides the opportunity to grow like this, and if you don’t want to at least think about the consequences of your actions (or lack thereof).
Comments
that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/
that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...
The icon & the in-game help are a mere part of the operation.
Do you see?
Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not.
Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe an Icon? hmm
Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe an Icon? hmm <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, icons to someone new to NS is like, "muh bbq?"
Here we have a program that's currently in the progress of being set up, which means of course that there are not yet enough Guides around, but that's got direct support from the devs, as the icon and the re-activatable features (the green text should still be in the chat code, only not assigned to an auth-group) indicate, that's creating a whole hub for newbies, complete with a dedicated sub-site to ns.org, training servers, and a custom tailored map, that ensures that no jerks become Guides by the means of selection practices that <i>I</i> consider too harsh, and you keep poking on its flaws. Of course the program isn't perfect - it has not even fully launched yet. How about we wait six months until after it did, look at what it accomplished, and then discuss its merits?
Can you provide some links for those wishing to sign up when you are accepting applications again? I'm having a hard time finding anything about them apart from the #nsguides IRC channel.
By implimenting the guide program you've justified your efforts. You're with a group of people of a likeminded mentality: helping. The Guide program helps create an atmosphere for productivity and aides in re-immerging spirit and dedication to a group of people. This group of people in turn helps the rest of this community.
Your point that any regular person can help a nubby is valid. The point is that its only so long before that person loses faith, gets irritable, annoyed, or gets yelled at by the people who he's trying to help. By placing that same person in the NS Guide program they no longer seek justification for their selfless acts from the people they help, they have a whole group to do that. It helps put faith back in people.
Its true, I was a candidate for the guides program but I got the boot after I came into a server with the name "yuck yuck ima <f bomb>", and when asked to change my name, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima <modified f bomb>", and when asked again, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima fux". About two hours later I found out I was dropped. And I was pretty enthusiastic about becoming a guide and bringing new players into the game <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would probably do the same. I don't even know what that first "comment" meant. How did a NSGuide/Reserved Slotter ruin the game?
Okay, now that we've established something already stated, I still don't understand how NSguides (or Supposed "Reverse Slotters") ruined the game.
While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons
A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little.
B) Not everyone wants to be helped.
Thats why I setup #nslearn so people can ask questions, and we'll show the latest tactics, and tricks from the top competive players in the community, as opposed to us going and preaching in servers.
Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful.
The game is still confusing.. Maybe even more confusing because of combat.. Alot of "newbs" play CO and they have no clue about NS.
While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons
A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little.
B) Not everyone wants to be helped.
Thats why I setup #nslearn so people can ask questions, and we'll show the latest tactics, and tricks from the top competive players in the community, as opposed to us going and preaching in servers.
Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think you are actually thinking about what your saying. We are talking about people who just got the game or have been starting to play it recently. Lets think now...are these people going to have a clue about anyones reputation? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> Furthermore, we are not here to push them into thinking the way we do. We are here to help teach them the elements in the game to let them develop their own methods.
"A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little."
You are so arrogant. You talk about how people THINK they know the game, but you are also one of those people. You dont understand the game is here to have fun and play it the way you want it to be played.
"B) Not everyone wants to be helped."
Your right for once, on that one.
"Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful."
...hah...haha
Here's your answer: An obligation to help. It really is as simple as that. Guides are 'on duty' so to speak all the time - if we are around, we are expected to help. We are expected to (an extent) leave other things and go out of our way to help.
You are not.
No one is saying you can't or shouldn't - you should be encouraged to - the more people that help out the better, but the simple difference is when you don't feel like helping, you don't have to. You can either tell the beginner to F-off, or just keep quiet and carry on acting as if they aren't there.
While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons
A) Most people know how to play the game as opposed to 1.00, in which there was A LOT of confusion, now its not so bad, the biggest problem is those that THINK they know the game, but know very little.
B) Not everyone wants to be helped.
Thats why I setup #nslearn so people can ask questions, and we'll show the latest tactics, and tricks from the top competive players in the community, as opposed to us going and preaching in servers.
Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Problem is, NSguides isn't really respected. People don't take advice from other people they do not respect."
I'm not even sure what angle you're coming from towards the guides program with this, any chance that you could clarify/justify this?
"While its nice to go after the newbies, my program #nslearn is more effective because people who want help, come to us. "
There was me thinking that if you wanted people who want help to come to you, you'd seek support from dev's or maybe even the already existing guide group - but don't let common sense get the better of me. I mean, ns guides is going to have things in the setup installer (nice idea btw 'lorn), links on the downloads page ("Installing NS for the first time? .. check out blahblah) and also stuff which comes up in the autohelp boxes actually ingame. Oh and also a bit of traffic from the official #naturalselection channel on gamesurge, AND from #naturalselection quakenet. (Expect the system to be branching out to other IRC networks/communities soon, I've been really busy with things IRL as of recently but I'm getting back into getting the guides stuff launched properly, now that we have access to guide.n-s.org and also icon access). Also, I noticed the fact that you wrote "<i>my</i> program" there, who else are you doing this program with? Just the way you wrote it seemed to be fairly self-centred, selfish almost, as if it's yours and nobodies else.
"The joining a random server and attempting to help people won't really work for two reasons"
Good thing that we've got servers in the works for people who are new to the game, which are going to be running ns_training maps then, coupled with a guide manual (yes, yes another manual) which is going to be using lots of very easy to take in (and very pretty I might add) flash components.
"Also by connecting and saying you help new players to a server could also imply that the people on there, that they are "newb" and get offended, even though you come across as polite and respectful."
As opposed to your forum sig? Newbies whine, Veterans adapt eh? Give it a break..
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest?
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 1 2004, 09:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 1 2004, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Jojoshua+Jul 1 2004, 07:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Jul 1 2004, 07:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 2 2004, 12:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 2 2004, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-HAMBONE+Jul 1 2004, 07:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Jul 1 2004, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> just for the record since I dont think that this has been posted yet, NSGuides can message/whisper individual players on a server with different colored text(green?), or at least they used to be able to. So it is a bit different <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be useful if it was true. Can an NSGuide confirm this? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, thats correct. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. Stuff like that should really be public, it makes the NSGuides seem a lot more than an organization with an icon for a gimmick.
Even still, there's no guarentee that the person will be receptive to the green text, and again the largest problem would be that NSGuides are probably only .01% of the times they could be. Which would be solved by a roster of something alone the lines of 200. In that case, I'll just wait a see.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Example #1
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jul 2 2004, 09:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jul 2 2004, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-raiN-+Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raiN- @ Jul 2 2004, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the record: NSGuides cannot(at the moment) private message people ingame. It is a feature that may be reimplemented, but as of right now its not actually coded in the game. =I <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Without anything to distinguish an NSGuide from another player, then there is no advantage to being an NSGuide. Your word is no more credible to the newb than that of another player.
Green text may not seem like much, but to an HL player who sees text that is clearly different on the screen should immediately recognized that the text is different from everyone else's and therefore is there to help, and what not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Example #2
Frolorn, first you say “there's no guarentee that the person will be receptive to the green text” (Example #1), then upon learning that it has yet to be implemented you say that if we don’t have green text then all will be lost (Example #2). You are making points that are very contradictory. Is this post just to stir up some drama, or try to ruin a group of new player helpers before we are off our feet, or what? My comment to you is the same it has been to many others who say things like this, please give us a chance.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-kuperaye+Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kuperaye @ Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p.s. I love your comment Bob, that was just awesome. BTW we have a very extensive interview process so that we find people who are not explosive in nature, and find people who are very knowledgeable, patient, and trust worthy. We have to trust them to upholding our reputation, and what a guide stands for, help new people at difficult times, or in difficult situations, and just have patience. We are a no-nonsense group, we will not tolerate people who do not abide by the rules we have laid down, and we are trying very hard to make this go around a successful one. We have this extensive process, and extensive rules because we do not want to worry about our guides flaming people in servers, or flaming people on forums. We want credibility, and we need the backing of the whole community in order for this program to be successful. I don’t know about you but the diminishing of the clanscene is depressing to me, and the more NSPlayers who make it through the learning process, the more clans that will be made, and the longer NS will live etc. We all want to help, and we all can, not just guides.
To tie up a few loose ends: Even I admit that anyone can help, well it is true. Everyone can help in game to answer questions, anyone can idle in #NSGuides to help the new people who come around. You are correct in that matter, and we appreciate the support and the willingness to help. The reason though that there is an organization to help is because organization brings results, and efficiency. So many people like pugging, let me use this example of how organization works.
Pre NSPug, in order to start a pug I (because everyone else was too lazy) had to spam all the channels I was in with “join #Pug-for-fun when we have 12 players we will look for a server.” It would take at least 30 minutes from when I started advertising to when we started playing, and this was during the peak pugging time, so what I am saying is 30 minutes was a fast pug starting time. In that time I had to notify that I was looking to start a pug, gain the necessary amount of players, find a server, and get everyone onto the server. It was a pain, and it took a long time to start, and myself and maybe one or two other people would try to get these games started, because it was such a time consuming process, and it didn’t always give the result you were looking for, a successful pug. Now in the time it would take for me to look for a group to play with, 3-4 pugs could have already started on NSPug. That is organization, and what it can do for you. Nspug came from the background I explained above into what it is now, it’s amazing what some time and effort can do. Please give NSGuides the opportunity to grow like this, and if you don’t want to at least think about the consequences of your actions (or lack thereof).
edit - oops I didn't paste it all