could you please tell Flayra how to fix this bug. i'm getting annoyed that you are keeping quiet. you've just plunged me into a depression because now i think my ownage has been the result of this bug working to my benefit. tell Flayra FFS! and then when it is fixed tell everyone all the details about how it is done and what it does exactly, does it affect other mods etc.
btw i myself have seen some blatant errors regarding server side and client side player's position data. the flashlight light spot's position is determined by the players position and orientation however it uses the client side orientation but the server-side position. you can test this yourself by going to a high ping server. put your flashlight on and rotate, the light spot will move immediately. but now start moving around using just the keyboard, you'll see the light spot moving with a delay mimicking your movements a while after you've done them. such an obviously sloppy programming error led me to believe that the weapon code was probably screwed up but i tested it with the help of other players and noticed no problem but maybe i'm wrong.
i care very much that a bug like this should be fixed immediately. i consider it the most important bug so i'm upset you will not tell Flayra and will just instead tell server admins how to fix it because simply that is not gonna happen; they are too lazy.
<!--QuoteBegin-ViPr+Jul 2 2004, 08:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jul 2 2004, 08:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> stuff <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just because they're not posting it publically doesn't mean the devs aren't already fixing it. Calm down
<!--QuoteBegin-JHunz+Jul 2 2004, 06:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JHunz @ Jul 2 2004, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ViPr+Jul 2 2004, 08:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jul 2 2004, 08:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> stuff <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just because they're not posting it publically doesn't mean the devs aren't already fixing it. Calm down <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i can't calm down. all my fond memories of my killing sprees are shattered coz i think they were because of this bug. i can't bring myself to play this game until this bug is fixed and this is the only game i play. i feel like i've been put in jail.
<!--QuoteBegin-ViPr+Jul 2 2004, 01:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jul 2 2004, 01:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i can't calm down. all my fond memories of my killing sprees are shattered coz i think they were because of this bug. i can't bring myself to play this game until this bug is fixed and this is the only game i play. i feel like i've been put in jail. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> what
I tested it with some guys in my clan, and some guys from OSS and #cri, was able to reproduce it everytime (yes even after a server restart) and the bug was very clearly present when trying to attack high speed bugged players.
<!--QuoteBegin-SVisions+Jul 2 2004, 08:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SVisions @ Jul 2 2004, 08:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I tested it with some guys in my clan, and some guys from OSS and #cri, was able to reproduce it everytime (yes even after a server restart) and the bug was very clearly present when trying to attack high speed bugged players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, I have my demo from that test
After reading and thinking about your first post, I cant even begin to Imagine how it can just randomly happen to someone.
I'm looking at this as a programmer (not a very great one) and thinker.
What your saying is that someone can just have a different hitbox coded for them that no one else has on that server. I cannot begin to imagine how that could happen. In real life an animal can have mutations in their DNA making them different from other animals. With this in mind, it is not possible if all alien lifeforms and marines are generated with the same attributes (from the same code that someone else is being generated from). Of course, i dont know anything about hlds coding or how NS is coded, but a computer can only do what you tell it to. So if every marine has the exact same attributes as another marine (the same code) how can that other marine be any different unless affected by a clientside source.
I'm not looking to be flamed here, but I just cant see how if every thing is just coded once, and it works that it can be different.
If anyone can explain this to me I would be very willing to think about it more. This post is a reflection of the way I think about things.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Azkar+Jul 3 2004, 12:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Azkar @ Jul 3 2004, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> After reading and thinking about your first post, I cant even begin to Imagine how it can just randomly happen to someone.
I'm looking at this as a programmer (not a very great one) and thinker.
What your saying is that someone can just have a different hitbox coded for them that no one else has on that server. I cannot begin to imagine how that could happen. In real life an animal can have mutations in their DNA making them different from other animals. With this in mind, it is not possible if all alien lifeforms and marines are generated with the same attributes (from the same code that someone else is being generated from). Of course, i dont know anything about hlds coding or how NS is coded, but a computer can only do what you tell it to. So if every marine has the exact same attributes as another marine (the same code) how can that other marine be any different unless affected by a clientside source.
I'm not looking to be flamed here, but I just cant see how if every thing is just coded once, and it works that it can be different.
If anyone can explain this to me I would be very willing to think about it more. This post is a reflection of the way I think about things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right, it does not happen randomly. I said that it <i>seemed</i> to occur randomly at the time that the first post was originally made. It has to do with the server.
i run a server and i was wondering if i could get that anti bugged **** cause i hate it when i am doing good and some **** says i am bugged it makes u feel bad
I read something about this a few hours ago and played NS after that. The server I played on had 21 public slots, with the last slot being some kind of reserved slot system that has not been used for several days. The game was going fine, I got a jetpack and hmg and met a lone skulk outside of archiving on ns_hera. It took me 83 level 2 hmg bullets to kill this vanilla 1 hive skulk. I thought "man this is bugged if I have ever seen it" and opened up my console, typed 'status' and behold the slot this person was using was #21.
Myself and Azkar were discussing how much crap this was on ventrilo beforehand, but after my incident I can believe it. I'll be checking out the demos tommorow. Nonetheless this is very interesting.
Not sure if this has been stated yet, I don't have the time to read all the replies, but this bug is not ns only. Me and cloud saw the bug produced two times by two different people in a vampire slayer server today. Not sure if this info will help or not but I threw it out there anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-ViPr+Jul 3 2004, 06:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jul 3 2004, 06:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you know what? FFS just tell everyone how to exploit this bug so that the programmers will then be forced to fix it immediately. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Translation: I want to abuse people with this bug until its fixed because, hey--people are killing me more then I'm killing them.
What i think is hilarious is that 99% of the people who get this bug are new to ns and are unable to exploit it. That's how it passed under the radar for so long.
I wish we could learn WHY the circumstances that create the bug (which seem arbitrary, i think) screws with the hitboxes so much.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Jul 3 2004, 08:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Jul 3 2004, 08:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ViPr+Jul 3 2004, 06:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jul 3 2004, 06:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you know what? FFS just tell everyone how to exploit this bug so that the programmers will then be forced to fix it immediately. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Translation: I want to abuse people with this bug until its fixed because, hey--people are killing me more then I'm killing them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hahahhaa, no actually the truth is that i slaughter everyone most of the time and i want this bug fixed immediately so that we can see if i wasn't benefitting from this bug the whole time. i'm not gonna play again until it's fixed.
Sarisel, could you update the first post with the most recent data on the bug, as someone looking into this relitively late, it's impossible to find the current status of anything through 11 pages of posts and lots of behind the sceanes info. As far as I know the bug if still produced at random and is not reproduceable, as that is the only information that I could glean without trudging through pages of mostly unnessicary comments. A proper update edit would probably solve alot of the stuff like Azkar outdated comment.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jul 3 2004, 11:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jul 3 2004, 11:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sarisel, could you update the first post with the most recent data on the bug, as someone looking into this relitively late, it's impossible to find the current status of anything through 11 pages of posts and lots of behind the sceanes info. As far as I know the bug if still produced at random and is not reproduceable, as that is the only information that I could glean without trudging through pages of mostly unnessicary comments. A proper update edit would probably solve alot of the stuff like Azkar outdated comment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> has Sarisel explained how this bug happens in his first post because it's impossible to glean that information without trudging through so many lines of text because his first post is absolutely huge!
i just checked the steam forums and there is a thread about laggy hitboxes in CS and nobody has mentioned anything of this thread in that thread. i don't know how you expect this bug to be fixed if Valve is not told about it.
btw can somebody tell Flayra to remove all the randomization from all the weapons except the shotgun and replace it with non-random recoil so that skillful players will be able to notice these bugs more easily in future.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->btw can somebody tell Flayra to remove all the randomization from all the weapons except the shotgun and replace it with non-random recoil so that skillful players will be able to notice these bugs more easily in future.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Recoil is allways random(well, pseudo random as allways with computers, use the same seed number and you get the same bunch of random numbers) with the exception of the shotgun which has a static pattern server side(why is this?) and random pattern client side. I take it you mean that the players should hand the server their random seed so that the recoil can be correlated on the client and server side instead of being random, but using a different set of random numbers, on the server and client?
The problem with this is that it makes anti-recoil cheats possible, but those are super obvious anyway(the cheat somehow figures out the random offset and compensates by rotating your view in the opposite direction an equal amount).
It isn't that important to do this in NS IMO since when you fire a large amount of shots that all do little in themselves it evens out quite nicely, unlike a game like DOD or CS where one or two bullets can kill.
when i say non-random recoil i mean that every shot that you fire will shift your aim off a little in a certain direction forcing you to have to move it back on target again. this should be used in place of the bullets going out the gun in random directions. i've explained this system numerous times and i'm sick of repeating myself. it is the best system.
i'm frankly amazed that CS players noticed this bug. the randomization in that game is so ridiculous. the crosshair gives you no clue as to where the bullets will go. the crosshair changes size instead of moving. that's just stupid. after reading some posts it seems it was only snipers that noticed it. if the game used the non random recoil system instead then this bug would have been noticed a lot sooner.
Comments
btw i myself have seen some blatant errors regarding server side and client side player's position data. the flashlight light spot's position is determined by the players position and orientation however it uses the client side orientation but the server-side position. you can test this yourself by going to a high ping server. put your flashlight on and rotate, the light spot will move immediately. but now start moving around using just the keyboard, you'll see the light spot moving with a delay mimicking your movements a while after you've done them. such an obviously sloppy programming error led me to believe that the weapon code was probably screwed up but i tested it with the help of other players and noticed no problem but maybe i'm wrong.
i care very much that a bug like this should be fixed immediately. i consider it the most important bug so i'm upset you will not tell Flayra and will just instead tell server admins how to fix it because simply that is not gonna happen; they are too lazy.
Just because they're not posting it publically doesn't mean the devs aren't already fixing it. Calm down
<span style='color:white'>Then don't.</span>
Just because they're not posting it publically doesn't mean the devs aren't already fixing it. Calm down <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i can't calm down. all my fond memories of my killing sprees are shattered coz i think they were because of this bug. i can't bring myself to play this game until this bug is fixed and this is the only game i play. i feel like i've been put in jail.
what
Yep, I have my demo from that test
www.joetorok.com/ns/bug.rar
btw aka #cri.scomm
I'm looking at this as a programmer (not a very great one) and thinker.
What your saying is that someone can just have a different hitbox coded for them that no one else has on that server. I cannot begin to imagine how that could happen. In real life an animal can have mutations in their DNA making them different from other animals. With this in mind, it is not possible if all alien lifeforms and marines are generated with the same attributes (from the same code that someone else is being generated from). Of course, i dont know anything about hlds coding or how NS is coded, but a computer can only do what you tell it to. So if every marine has the exact same attributes as another marine (the same code) how can that other marine be any different unless affected by a clientside source.
I'm not looking to be flamed here, but I just cant see how if every thing is just coded once, and it works that it can be different.
If anyone can explain this to me I would be very willing to think about it more. This post is a reflection of the way I think about things.
I'm looking at this as a programmer (not a very great one) and thinker.
What your saying is that someone can just have a different hitbox coded for them that no one else has on that server. I cannot begin to imagine how that could happen. In real life an animal can have mutations in their DNA making them different from other animals. With this in mind, it is not possible if all alien lifeforms and marines are generated with the same attributes (from the same code that someone else is being generated from). Of course, i dont know anything about hlds coding or how NS is coded, but a computer can only do what you tell it to. So if every marine has the exact same attributes as another marine (the same code) how can that other marine be any different unless affected by a clientside source.
I'm not looking to be flamed here, but I just cant see how if every thing is just coded once, and it works that it can be different.
If anyone can explain this to me I would be very willing to think about it more. This post is a reflection of the way I think about things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, it does not happen randomly. I said that it <i>seemed</i> to occur randomly at the time that the first post was originally made. It has to do with the server.
<span style='color:white'>No unpermitted advertisements, please.</span>
Myself and Azkar were discussing how much crap this was on ventrilo beforehand, but after my incident I can believe it. I'll be checking out the demos tommorow. Nonetheless this is very interesting.
Translation: I want to abuse people with this bug until its fixed because, hey--people are killing me more then I'm killing them.
I wish we could learn WHY the circumstances that create the bug (which seem arbitrary, i think) screws with the hitboxes so much.
Translation: I want to abuse people with this bug until its fixed because, hey--people are killing me more then I'm killing them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hahahhaa, no actually the truth is that i slaughter everyone most of the time and i want this bug fixed immediately so that we can see if i wasn't benefitting from this bug the whole time. i'm not gonna play again until it's fixed.
has Sarisel explained how this bug happens in his first post because it's impossible to glean that information without trudging through so many lines of text because his first post is absolutely huge!
i just checked the steam forums and there is a thread about laggy hitboxes in CS and nobody has mentioned anything of this thread in that thread. i don't know how you expect this bug to be fixed if Valve is not told about it.
btw can somebody tell Flayra to remove all the randomization from all the weapons except the shotgun and replace it with non-random recoil so that skillful players will be able to notice these bugs more easily in future.
^^
Recoil is allways random(well, pseudo random as allways with computers, use the same seed number and you get the same bunch of random numbers) with the exception of the shotgun which has a static pattern server side(why is this?) and random pattern client side. I take it you mean that the players should hand the server their random seed so that the recoil can be correlated on the client and server side instead of being random, but using a different set of random numbers, on the server and client?
The problem with this is that it makes anti-recoil cheats possible, but those are super obvious anyway(the cheat somehow figures out the random offset and compensates by rotating your view in the opposite direction an equal amount).
It isn't that important to do this in NS IMO since when you fire a large amount of shots that all do little in themselves it evens out quite nicely, unlike a game like DOD or CS where one or two bullets can kill.
i'm frankly amazed that CS players noticed this bug. the randomization in that game is so ridiculous. the crosshair gives you no clue as to where the bullets will go. the crosshair changes size instead of moving. that's just stupid. after reading some posts it seems it was only snipers that noticed it. if the game used the non random recoil system instead then this bug would have been noticed a lot sooner.