Bunnyhopping Gives Huge Advantage
Amped1
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
<div class="IPBDescription">So cap the top speed</div> Bunnyhopping is an interesting feature to up the competitive play, but it is simply too fast. I just had a game where a guy went 68/5 because he could bunnyhop good. If I'm not mistaken, bunnyhopping caps at 300% speed increase. That is simply insane. 200% and maybe even 150% should be max. Skill is good, but raising the bar too high makes not just the newbs but even the average joe have a bad time because they just want to play, not spend hours learning to bunnyhop.
Comments
People who can use the railgun/AWP/etc in other games should not have the weapon nerfed just because they can use it well, so why apply different principles here?
Bhop is, and always has and will be, here to stay.
Edit: The average Joe plays on average skill pub servers. Surprisingly few pubbers can bhop, so (s)he should be able to play, and have fun, without needing to bhop.
All that being said, I don't have THAT big of a problem with bunnyhopping. It does making clanners better than newbs, but so does having an experienced commander, or a good fade player. Should we ban those too? Hell, a good comm will negate any bunnyhopping by the alien side if the marines have basic motor skills.
If bunny hopping still bug ya, stop walking through the "JOIN MARINES" portal. Stacking Marines is already a pretty big problem on most pubs; the constant one man advantage for 'rines kills the Khaara's chance of survival most of the time. BE PART OF THE SOLUTION!
Since my first play in jarhead close beta servers, I was just angry with more experienced players that can bunny hop, actually i was just needing a time for adapting and improve my own gameplay and shooting skills, a good marine can kill a bunny hopper without much problems. If this is your problem, find a bunny hopper just beyond a curve is certain death, so learn to kill aliens, learn to keep distance.
Later then, when I learned to Bunny Hop, I discovered that bunny hop isn't a Uber advantage over marines, is just a slight advantage needed in certain critical situation, and the bunny hopping dosen't make a player becom an über killing machine
Bunny hopping improve your movement by 100 units, and about 150 with clerity
real good bunny hopper can get this to 200 with celerity
ít's pretty damn fast, but a leap still faster than it. a leap reaches 800 units of speed! so play harded, go CLASSIC
learn to kill aliens
To explain: a bhopping skulk is far better at taking out marines. Non bhopping skulks have a lot of trouble in the early game with marines. I, for one, can't bhop. I've been playing HL and HL mods since the game came out and I still can't do it. There are a lot of people in the same boat as me. You can say "Oh just go to *insert website here* they have a great bhop guide and it's dead easy to learn". The fact is that just about everyone who plays HL mods knows about bhopping, yet only a small percentage of the gaming population can do it. If it really was as easy and simple to do as some claim, everyone would do it, instead of a small percentage.
The problem is, as you may have guessed already, is that if you buff skulks so that non-bhoppers can take on marines to the same degree that bhopers can, the bhoppers gain a massive advantage. Look at 2.0; 75 hp - 20 ac skulks in the hands of a non-bhopper gave the alien around a 50-50 chance of taking out a lone marine. In the hands of a bhopper, they were far more deadly. The current setup for skulks hurts non-bhoppers badly; to the extent that the whole alien side in the early game is suffering as a result.
If we are going to keep bhopping around (and I wish to Flayra we weren't), we're gonna keep facing this problem. The Fade suffers to a certan extent from the same problem; many people are bad Fades, but an experianced Fade player can take out whole marine teams. We have to find the middle ground, but sadly I don't think that's an achieveable goal.
Just a thought; it would be interesting to make bhopping an evolutionary upgrade. It would likely go onto the movement chamber, but I don't know what would be removed to replace it.
If only they knew that the hitboxes for a clinging skulk make them at least as hard to hit as one going max speed towards a marine. Plus it just looks cooler...they should let skulks leap off of the walls for terrifying attacks a la <i>Alien</i> drones.
HOWEVER, in small corridors, I do wall walk to my enemy, and I learned that if you strafe while on a cieling you can look straight down while moving along the cieling without falling off of it.
it works good for parasiting from above with silence and them not noticing. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The map makers do a good enough job of doing that themselves.
I wish. For one your hitbox sticks out towards the marine you're targetting in that case - while your feet and head might not be hittable, thats not such a big deal. Wallwalking to close distance is also only viable in rare situations - often there is more cover located on the ground.
Most importantly though, on the ground you create the whole downwards-angulation problem, which helps you kill a lone marine alot, and have better control than off a wall-walk attack (unless the marine is in clinging distance of the wall - like in a tight hallway/corridor, then you have alot better control over your attack). I've seen Maruchan! do an amazing job at smooth wall movements, but it rarely ends up helping him - more often than not, he'd be better off just trying to kill his target in the directest way possible once engaged.
... I think you just shut down the thread man...
Anyways, bhop is so easy to learn my father is even getting the hang of it. Basicly, too few guides on the internet are about skulks in particular, and therefor do not mention that <i>u have got to hold ctrl</i> (duck-key) as skulk. And with the +3jump script, I find it easier to manouver bhopping that not bhopping, frankly u would find me bhopping around columns etc for the fun of it, thats why u cannot remove it, its toooo FUN. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As I have stated somewhere on another thread about this, just make the regular +jump command, a +3jump one, though it would be best if skulks got a +skulkhop considering lerks and +3jumps is nasty
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if netcode was perfect and servers never lagged nore did players... people wouldnt complain nearly as much about bhopping
1. Unlike most skills, bhop has a large hump right at the beginning. For many people, it's binary. Either you can or you can't. Once you get past that hump then you can start having discussions about bhop being skill-based. Unfortunately, that hump *does* exist, and some people simply can't do it. This is different from being terrible at something, and is a difference that most people in favor of it don't consider when they're looking at balance.
2. Any skill that requires you access the config or the console isn't a game skill. It's a meta skill. <b>Every</b> instruction manual I've seen on bhopping starts with "download this script" or "type this in your console to start". My feelings are, if you have to do that, it's not a real game skill, it's an exploit that just happens to take some skill to use effectively.
If I thought most bhoppers could be so on a vanilla install of NS, without requiring a specific control setup or touching the console/config files.. I'd be much more in favor of it. I seriously doubt that's the case, however.
You may also want to try Tyr^Nemesis's custom shotgun crosshair. Get it <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72633' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Note: IMO wall-walking is much better than bhopping, since the hitboxes are buggy. However, skulks often fail to move properly on walls.
Note2: Ignore cl_latency. It doesn't work anymore.
Note3: cl_resend, ex_interp and ex_extrapmax reset everytime you quit, so you NEED to put them on your userconfig.cfg file.
<u><b>Note4: Add "alias ex_interp" without the quotes to the end of your config file to stop ns resetting it when you send a + command. Other mods don't need this.</b></u>
To fix that we'd have to basically remove bhopping altogether. I don't see this as a problem personally. It would level the playing field in one, single aspect, and as stated before, it makes sense that the better players would still kill more regardless of whether or not they can bhop anymore. However, one can only wonder how many "good players" would suddenly become noticeably "bad players" once such measures were taken.
bh is not comparable to aiming well (and not even close to folowing the waypoints)
aiming: move mouse so x-hair is over target click/hold mouse button
bh: hold ctrl, hit space look left (45*) and hold right strafe button, hit space at the right time look right and hold the left strafe button (and to realy do it properly you need to do a "u" shaped move with the mouse. so ive heard).
that is the only way i know how to bh. sorry i dont think i know the best way to bh.
and as said above, just add leap to bh and you get near impossable to hit, high speed, flying skulks (they seem to move way faster than the 170% cap)
bh should stay but be coded into the game so everyone can do it or it should be taken out. it will be impossable to balance the skull if left alown as any chainge will make one too weak or the other too strong.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. Any skill that requires you access the config or the console isn't a game skill. It's a meta skill. Every instruction manual I've seen on bhopping starts with "download this script" or "type this in your console to start". My feelings are, if you have to do that, it's not a real game skill, it's an exploit that just happens to take some skill to use effectively.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't need ANY script to bunnyhop
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was merely asking for a lowering of the max speed, because as mentioned before, not everyone can bunnyhop or learn to bunnyhop<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you can't then you just have a bad tutorial or a bad teacher, even my mother could do it so stop saying that not everyone can do it, all the peoples i explained to are able to bunnyhop now. The fact about bunnyhop is that you can't gain full speed in one hour, i practiced it for many days and now, nearly 6 month later i improve my skill every time i play.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok I had the ex_interp set up wrong, which could explain why I can't hit the bunnyhoppers. I'll try it out.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ex_interp is locked by natural selection, changing the value in config file won't do anything.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, one can only wonder how many "good players" would suddenly become noticeably "bad players" once such measures were taken.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just a popular legend, all the players who can't bh seem to consider bunnyhopping as a superman ability, do you really think it is ?
If you try to get a marine down alone bunnyhopping in a corridor to reach him it all depends on the marine aiming skill, and ONLY THAT. If the marine have a poor aim he will miss you, if you have a good player in front you will NEVER reach him alone.
I am fed up of all these "remove bunnyhopping it's an exploit, it's bad, it's the devil !!", just ask how to do it, try it yourself and then you will see what it really is.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Give everyone an aimbot and wallhack, not everyone can aim and has ears.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well said...
You want to make the game even for everyone ?
- remove any aiming skill requirement
- make everyone play with a badly done key configuration
- remove any intelligence aptitude for tactic/strategy
- remove every player brains since we are at it
And then all the "devil clanners" will just stop natural selection since it will be a boring game where a 1 day player can be on the same field as a 1year player, will you be happy ?
It is just stupid to remove any skill need, turn on your brain and think about it.
ex_interp is locked by natural selection, changing the value in config file won't do anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Weird. When I set it in servers, it changes how I want. When I resend ex_interp to check its value in the same session on the same sever, it reflects the change I have made.
You don't need ANY script to bunnyhop
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand that's a theoretical possibility.
Know anybody who does it regularly?
What do you think the "alias ex_interp" at the end of the file is for? Why do you think I wrote it <b>bold</b> and <u>underlined</u>?
You don't need ANY script to bunnyhop
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand that's a theoretical possibility.
Know anybody who does it regularly? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know someone who bhops very well (has no trouble maxing his speed in 4-6 jumps consistently) using just his spacebar bound to +jump. It's very possible.