The Fade And The Onos
Amped1
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13287Members
A lot of people talk about how Fades are too good and Onos are too weak. So I got to thinking about what could possibly cause this. My best theory is that Fades can get into and out of combat easily, while Onos can't. Fades have blink, Skulks leap, Lerk flight, and Onos have charge, which is in slot 4. First things first : Fades' blink. They can blink in, swipe, and then blink out all in a few seconds usually evading damage. They can do this over and over eventually killing an HA even if he is being welded. I personally feel that blink should require a certain percent of the energy bar to be present in order to <b>start</b> blinking. If you bypass this percent while <b>in</b> the blink you will not be punished and you can continue to blink. Onos charge should be a simpler fix. Simply move it. I think that {Gore, Charge, Devour, Stomp} would be a better lineup for the onos skills. Stomp is a game ender after all, so shouldn't it be Hive 3? Thoughts are of course, appreciated.
Comments
Maybe?
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry.</span>
It's sad to see that stomp and charge are used to cover and make escapes right now instead of smashing marines into submission.
As for Onoses... Their current ability setup makes balancing them extremely difficult IMHO. If their HP is made any higher they will be impossible to counter in smaller areas, where stomp & devour makes them a marine nightmare. On the other hand, this leads to an overdependance on stomp which makes them <u>extremely</u> weak in situations where it's not useful(long distances, elevation difference). It also makes Hive 1 Onoses basically useless in any situation which goes against half the purpose behind unchaining them in the first place. I think Stomp should be moved to Hive 3 and Onoses should be made strong enough to play without it; they did just great in 1.04 when it wasn't even in the game, didn't they? Somewhere between that and where they are now would be more appropriate. Also, this would make them something to be feared at Hive 3 since stomp would be totally crazy in combination with much higher HP.
Skulks need a BIG boost while the fade should stay the same. THe lerk needs a bit of a boost too to prevent it from beeing instagibbed by the shotgun.
Yep, my apologies.
As for fades, I think blink should be slowed down and cost more. Then add 50 armor. That way, a group of marines will ALWAYS have the upper hand, since 50 armor is nothing to a group of LMGs, and the fade can hardly blink away. As it is now, a fade can harass a group constantly, especially with metabolize.
Or better yet, a 50 pound turret with the only 3 tripod legs support it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for Fades, maybe we need to make it less of an art just to land a blow on them to close the pub/scrim gap a bit. Frankly I miss the days of teleport Blink, provided we could fix it.
Fade: 300/250 health. 70 res. Blink is 100 units/second faster than the current blink. Each level of carapace gives 50 more armor.
Onos: 800/700 health. 80 res. Hive 0 attack: gore: does 100 damage to marines and 200 damage to structures. Hive 1: Devour: Devour time is shorter, while devouring the onos takes away armor, roo. The armor goes directly to the onos armor. The health goes directly to the onos health. Hive 2: Stomp: Same as now. Hive 3: Charge: Uses 24% energy/second. Does damage relative to size (I.E. a turret would take about 1000 damage/second, a siege turret would take 800 damage/second, all other buildings would take 400 damage/second, marines would take 550 damage/second, HA would take 300 damage/second (they are made to withstand such forces) Please realize these numbers are just examples. Carapace gives 150 more armor with each level (carapace actually does something now).
In combat:
Skulk
Lerk(1)-----------Gorge(1)--------------Onos(4)
|
|
Fade (3)
Now the Onos will be harder to get, because you will have to stay as skulk or gorge for a while (no going fade, then onos). The fades cost is increased because of early fade, and lerk cost stays the same.
Skulk: 70/20 health. Health is increased slightly to make up for LA marines owning skulks (2 more bullets to kill skulk).
The fade being better for more res is because the marines can get upgrades before someone saves up 70 res (its like saving for onos right now, only 5 res less...). The marines will have upgrades by the time fade comes out, so it will be easyer to kill than early fades now.
The Onos gains a boost in health and a boost in power to charge, gore and devour. The Onos is now a beast (maybe).
The suggestion basically amounted to making the onos relatively bullet proof when attacked head on. Everyone that has played the latest build of CS and used the riot shield will know what I’m talking about. With this change, any bullets that strike the front of the onos’ hit box would do little to no damage. To compensate, any bullets that strike the side or back end of the onos would inflict great amounts of damage. Perhaps such hits would not be absorbed by armor at all. Any damage to such areas would be taken off directly from the health points.
This would open up interesting new tactics to both teams:
*No longer could a single marine (LA or HA) threaten an onos. However, two or more marines could outflank the onos and quickly put him down. In this sense ramboing is punished and tactical team maneuvering is rewarded.
*Carelessly defended bases (even with obscene numbers of turrets) could be assaulted. Many of you agree this should be a primary role of the onos. The marine counter is to place turrets in such a manner that attacking one leaves the onos vulnerable to another. (A turret/marine combination could also be used to outflank an onos.)
*Since most of the alien attacks are melee, the primary challenge in attacking any marine is closing the distance gap. Currently, a marine relocation to any hallway or bottleneck that forces the aliens to make a frontal assault across a long distance often results in a stalemate. With the suggested change, an onos could walk down that same hallway protecting a group of skulks until the skulks were within range to attack. The onos could lead other classes of aliens into battle by providing cover. Again, this rewards teamwork.
*Adding more than one onos into the equation increases the tactical complexity in interesting ways. Two onos standing back to back could counter a two marine flank, but more marines could be used to counter this maneuver.
*Two onos could assault turret farms that only a single onos could not.
At this point, some of you will want to respond that large groups of onos would be overpowering. To this I’d first say, “of course!” If the aliens have enough resources to all go onos they should be pretty powerful. However, (for those of you still interested and reading) I can think of a few marine counters to large groups of onos.
*A circle of onos all facing outwards (or even a single onos in a hallway) could be attacked with a grenade launcher. A grenade explosion from the front would obviously not cause much damage, but a grenade lobbed into the circle (or underneath or behind a single onos) would cause great amounts of damage.
*Jetpacks – always touted as an onos counter – really would counter onos if the top of their hit box were vulnerable. The same could be said about the advantage of high ground and elevation in general. This would give further tactical considerations to a commander when deciding where to build bases and place turrets.
*And finally, as long as some small amount of armor is taken away when the onos is hit in the front, a large group of marines would still be threatening to a single onos even when attacking down a hallway. If the distance were great enough and the group large enough, the marines would eventually whittle away the onos’ armor.
Lol ya i never got how those dam things never fall over.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Flayra has actually talked about adding it to the onos in the future. I think its a great idea, but i still think that the onos would be way too vurnurable if it only had 700 hp when facing it from any other angle than head on, it would die in a matter of 1-2 seconds by a single hmg.
The Onoes became whimps when they fixed their hidden hitboxes, if they fix the Fade's hitboxes, then the Marines will start blowing them away too.
Take stomp from onos.
Give meta to onos
Give something funky to fade. (I still like the idea of a sticky-bomb if the numbers were properly balanced but I'm willing to put up with other ideas)
Make fades and skulk faster than they are. Not quite cerelity fast stock, but close.
Buff Onos armor and HP, or add bugged hitboxes back, lol. If not, Have a "umbra effect" for bullets hitting Onos in heavily armored Front and top i.e. 1/2 hit. I'd also like to see Onos speed dropped too. I believe a 'rine should be able to outrun an Onos w/o charge or cerelity.
70 res for a Fade is way too much ATM...If alien res problems are solved then maybe. 60 is as far as I'd go. And with 250 armor stock, what would a cara fade be at? Near invincible with Blink I would think.
a fade is easily took down by some hmgs (when marines have decent aim)
For onos, taking away stomp is a really bad idea with its current hp/armor since it will become useless, on the other side in the 1.04 days onos were monsters, when they came out they were nearly invincible.
If you are an Onos, and you just run straight at a bunch of Marines, you deserve to die, that is just stupidity, sick of people saying they shouldnt die to easy, when I play and see them die is mainly due to the fact they run straight at a bunch of Marines.
A smart Onos will play the game as it is meant to be played, Stealth, just because you are "Big" doesnt mean you are meant to be a tank.
The whole idea of this game is Marines are meant to be the attackers, Aliens are the defenders, at present with all the inbalance suited towards the favour of the Aliens, the Aliens become the attackers, as the fades are unfortunately made to strong, (Dont forget the purpose of NS ( As I have said above, Stealth is meant to be what aliens are about)) I will say, the fades just need tweaking, to Attack the way they do is going against the grain of this game, Blink in, attack, Blink out, no stealth is needed.
Onos is fine as it is (Except his huge devour range above his head), Fade needs tweaking, to make him work as a stealth unit he is meant to be.
Those are my thoughts about this, based on what NS, CO is meant to be about.
A smart Onos will play the game as it is meant to be played, Stealth, just because you are "Big" doesnt mean you are meant to be a tank."
the onos has 700 health and 600 armor, it's freakin' huge. how can you say it's meant for stealth. not only that, but an onos CAN'T be stealthy considering they are as I've said freakin' huge and make a lot of noise.
"The whole idea of this game is Marines are meant to be the attackers, Aliens are the defenders, at present with all the inbalance suited towards the favour of the Aliens, the Aliens become the attackers"
By the story, aliens are the defenders, yes, but in the game the aliens dont win by defending! they have to defeat the marines...
"(Dont forget the purpose of NS ( As I have said above, Stealth is meant to be what aliens are about)) I will say, the fades just need tweaking, to Attack the way they do is going against the grain of this game, Blink in, attack, Blink out, no stealth is needed."
no stealth is possible. the blink is...freakin' loud. get silence? motion tracking gives you away. fade is a "warrior class," though.
A smart Onos will play the game as it is meant to be played, Stealth, just because you are "Big" doesnt mean you are meant to be a tank."
the onos has 700 health and 600 armor, it's freakin' huge. how can you say it's meant for stealth. not only that, but an onos CAN'T be stealthy considering they are as I've said freakin' huge and make a lot of noise.
"The whole idea of this game is Marines are meant to be the attackers, Aliens are the defenders, at present with all the inbalance suited towards the favour of the Aliens, the Aliens become the attackers"
By the story, aliens are the defenders, yes, but in the game the aliens dont win by defending! they have to defeat the marines...
"(Dont forget the purpose of NS ( As I have said above, Stealth is meant to be what aliens are about)) I will say, the fades just need tweaking, to Attack the way they do is going against the grain of this game, Blink in, attack, Blink out, no stealth is needed."
no stealth is possible. the blink is...freakin' loud. get silence? motion tracking gives you away. fade is a "warrior class," though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hiding around a corner is stealth enuff for an Onos, close range, marines have a very slim chance to defeat him.