Discussion
Ballisto
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16503Members
Join Date: 2003-05-19 Member: 16503Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Teamwork/Ramboing</div> I'm going to first look at cs, your FAAAVORITE game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> . And then compare it to ns strategy.
In cs, the plan is to basically push forward, and move with you teammates. If they fall back and camp, you camp. If they charge you charge. It's like the idea in physics of drift velocity - a bunch of particles moving randomly but with a collective velocity in a direction, so the fluid gets there.
The teamwork in cs (on pubs), is often "everyone rush B next round", "follow me! short A!" That is big picture strategy - the overall plan.
Then we have people who coordinate in micromanagement - on the ground 1v1 kind of battles. They'll tell their teammates to stand back, throw a well-placed flashbang, and then yell to charge. This is ramboness - outwitting your opponent and having better aim, but also sticking together, spreading out so you don't get mowed down when you line up, baiting each other... that kind of thing. Unspoken (and spoken coordination).
And then theres intelligence - the military kind. From the radio command "Enemy spoted!" to guys typing "bomb down in tunnel" to guys on voice telling you they heard footsteps and a shotgun cocking in the camera room at the end of the sewers.
-----------
Now lets look at the same strategy in NS.
Macromanagement: We have comms, and gorges. One comm. A mass of aliens. In cs, usually a leader will pop up with a plan for the next round and rally the team. In ns that's what the comm is for. Aliens though, there really isn't no Lieutennant to lead the charge. This is something we could work on. Comms now have an instarally device - the new bacon. Marines pull of entire team hive rushes all the time. Aliens have a hard time getting coordinated attacks together.
Now about the "push" tactic - the whole team just wanders on their own, maybe small groups, killing what they see, pushing til death. This works well with marines - rt demolishers and skulk pwners. A guy runs out of base, you follow him and cover him. This also works with Fades - rambo around destroying vital stuff. The problem comes with light marines vs skulks - skulks in groups ARE good at taking out rts, but marines in groups (shooting them down) are much better at it. It's impossible to focus fire with bite, but with guns it works very well (just look at cs).
The individual battles now. We do have good ambushing - 3 skulks over a doorway --> pwnt marines. But marines again have an easier time. It's basically shoot anything in sight, and stick together but not too close. Whereas aliens you have to cooridnate.
And now to intelligence. This tends to be good in ns, rambos telling the team that they just heard a fade in Triad, or that the other team has a 2nd hive going up in Generator. Aliens announcing the marine's shotgun rush.
So... I'd say this sums up a good chunk of ns's problems right now. Theres a certain type of teamwork - cs teamwork - that happens naturally without and words typed/spoken. Both teams require lots of teamwork, but with marines it comes more naturally, so in low skill games we'll see marines with more teamwork because it's easier to work together. I can't say much for clanners though...
Thoughts? Additions? Corrections?
In cs, the plan is to basically push forward, and move with you teammates. If they fall back and camp, you camp. If they charge you charge. It's like the idea in physics of drift velocity - a bunch of particles moving randomly but with a collective velocity in a direction, so the fluid gets there.
The teamwork in cs (on pubs), is often "everyone rush B next round", "follow me! short A!" That is big picture strategy - the overall plan.
Then we have people who coordinate in micromanagement - on the ground 1v1 kind of battles. They'll tell their teammates to stand back, throw a well-placed flashbang, and then yell to charge. This is ramboness - outwitting your opponent and having better aim, but also sticking together, spreading out so you don't get mowed down when you line up, baiting each other... that kind of thing. Unspoken (and spoken coordination).
And then theres intelligence - the military kind. From the radio command "Enemy spoted!" to guys typing "bomb down in tunnel" to guys on voice telling you they heard footsteps and a shotgun cocking in the camera room at the end of the sewers.
-----------
Now lets look at the same strategy in NS.
Macromanagement: We have comms, and gorges. One comm. A mass of aliens. In cs, usually a leader will pop up with a plan for the next round and rally the team. In ns that's what the comm is for. Aliens though, there really isn't no Lieutennant to lead the charge. This is something we could work on. Comms now have an instarally device - the new bacon. Marines pull of entire team hive rushes all the time. Aliens have a hard time getting coordinated attacks together.
Now about the "push" tactic - the whole team just wanders on their own, maybe small groups, killing what they see, pushing til death. This works well with marines - rt demolishers and skulk pwners. A guy runs out of base, you follow him and cover him. This also works with Fades - rambo around destroying vital stuff. The problem comes with light marines vs skulks - skulks in groups ARE good at taking out rts, but marines in groups (shooting them down) are much better at it. It's impossible to focus fire with bite, but with guns it works very well (just look at cs).
The individual battles now. We do have good ambushing - 3 skulks over a doorway --> pwnt marines. But marines again have an easier time. It's basically shoot anything in sight, and stick together but not too close. Whereas aliens you have to cooridnate.
And now to intelligence. This tends to be good in ns, rambos telling the team that they just heard a fade in Triad, or that the other team has a 2nd hive going up in Generator. Aliens announcing the marine's shotgun rush.
So... I'd say this sums up a good chunk of ns's problems right now. Theres a certain type of teamwork - cs teamwork - that happens naturally without and words typed/spoken. Both teams require lots of teamwork, but with marines it comes more naturally, so in low skill games we'll see marines with more teamwork because it's easier to work together. I can't say much for clanners though...
Thoughts? Additions? Corrections?
Comments
Pubbing (the dreaded aspect of both games) are a pain in the **** in both games.
The thing with rambos, is people are beginning to screw up the definition of a rambo. Origonally, rambos were maniacs that went out shooting and did little for the team otherwise.
By today's definition, I am sort of a rambo. I usually let my comm know, get out of base, and hunt for resources. Most of the time I end up at a hive after one or two RT's, at which point I might request backup from anyone else nearby. By then, I'm far enough away from main operations that I end up hunting for some more RT's in the proximity and then standing by for a phase link.
Of course, that's not a bad kind of rambo, is it? A commander can get 2-3 RT's and a hive lockdown from me on a good day (or I ended finding their real hive, which radically changes the game strategy).
Not someone who went off on their own in-order to improve the teams chances.
Anyhow, better alien teams COMMUNICATE and COORDINATE. Coordination is the most important of the two. If all the team say they're saving for fade, then they've communicated but NOT coordinated. If they say nothing but develop some form of ubercommunication where each player just "knows" what he should be doing, then they're not really communicating per se but they ARE coordinating.
Coordination is a hard thing to teach, as you NEED people to pick the support class. I see it all the time in BF1942 - I'm the only engineer and noone else is helping repair the bunkers. Or perhaps I've snagged a big cannon but noone will spot for me. In any case I can merely switch class and we can win without the big support. But in NS you NEED GORGES, you need someone to build your upgrades, to make the hives, etc. And thats a hard thing to impress on gloryhunters.