Tired of this now....
Micronesia
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4668Members
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4668Members
Im so tired of people saying this mod is not unbalanced, and being called a whiner.
My impression is that this mod is extremley unbalanced. Yes you can say that "it takes more skill to play alien", but that is to my ears the same as, "it is easier to play marine".
I will try to point out the best examples of unbalance.
When i played as marine two mags of machinegun ammo (the light machinegun) was all that was needed to erase a alien turret. That is some 8-10 seconds.
As gorge, you have to shoot like 2 minutes on a marine turret before it explodes. Trying to bite one if there are 1-2 turrets as backup is impossible.
It doesnt matter how many turrets you have put up, its just a question of times before marines build <!--emo&::siege::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/siege.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::siege::'><!--endemo-->
backuped with <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/turret.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::sentry::'><!--endemo-->, so we cant even build turrets around the areas. And everything except onos is almost impossible to attack with. Chances are one hive is blocked with 5000 marine turrets. Then you cant build onos.
And the grenades. Oh yes, the grenades. I dont know whether to cry or laugh when i see a large area of defence getting wiped off the ground by 2-3 grenades. To be followed by some heavy armored guys that take out the hive. And of course, the little creatures get killed in a second, if not they manage to flee. Any resistance is impossible, either you get wiped off by a grenade or pierced by the heavy machine guns.
Biting? Shooting acid pee against intruders?? lol.. you havent played alien have you?
THe aliens are compared to the humans as little pissants. They have to stay away from the nasty humans, and try to
advoid them as they recolony the bases the best possible way. But as i said earlier, the game is ALWAYS just a question of time before the humans have taken over almost everything. For aliens its not a matter of winning but how long the can survive.
There is a 1 of 20 chance that alien team will win the round. Do that ring a bell?
Round after round marines win, and we get the same ######## told. This is not a unbalanced game, its just that aliens need more skill.......
*sigh*
I have not seen one alien that says its balanced. Only marines.
The truth? This mod needs some serious tweaking to make it a good gaming experience for both teams. If you will call all people like me whiners you wont have much players on the servers after a while.
Sorry for my aweful english..
My impression is that this mod is extremley unbalanced. Yes you can say that "it takes more skill to play alien", but that is to my ears the same as, "it is easier to play marine".
I will try to point out the best examples of unbalance.
When i played as marine two mags of machinegun ammo (the light machinegun) was all that was needed to erase a alien turret. That is some 8-10 seconds.
As gorge, you have to shoot like 2 minutes on a marine turret before it explodes. Trying to bite one if there are 1-2 turrets as backup is impossible.
It doesnt matter how many turrets you have put up, its just a question of times before marines build <!--emo&::siege::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/siege.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::siege::'><!--endemo-->
backuped with <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/turret.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::sentry::'><!--endemo-->, so we cant even build turrets around the areas. And everything except onos is almost impossible to attack with. Chances are one hive is blocked with 5000 marine turrets. Then you cant build onos.
And the grenades. Oh yes, the grenades. I dont know whether to cry or laugh when i see a large area of defence getting wiped off the ground by 2-3 grenades. To be followed by some heavy armored guys that take out the hive. And of course, the little creatures get killed in a second, if not they manage to flee. Any resistance is impossible, either you get wiped off by a grenade or pierced by the heavy machine guns.
Biting? Shooting acid pee against intruders?? lol.. you havent played alien have you?
THe aliens are compared to the humans as little pissants. They have to stay away from the nasty humans, and try to
advoid them as they recolony the bases the best possible way. But as i said earlier, the game is ALWAYS just a question of time before the humans have taken over almost everything. For aliens its not a matter of winning but how long the can survive.
There is a 1 of 20 chance that alien team will win the round. Do that ring a bell?
Round after round marines win, and we get the same ######## told. This is not a unbalanced game, its just that aliens need more skill.......
*sigh*
I have not seen one alien that says its balanced. Only marines.
The truth? This mod needs some serious tweaking to make it a good gaming experience for both teams. If you will call all people like me whiners you wont have much players on the servers after a while.
Sorry for my aweful english..
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Right now you can't get an accurate idea of the balance since the marines can almost always get their higher up equipment very early on.
I agree with this. Just wait a few days. I think it will be better then. As of right now i do think it is usually unbalanced. It is easier for the marines but it wouldn't be this way if the aliens were able to build their higher level stuff at the same rate at the marines.
If it takes more skill to play one side then another, you have a bit of a balance issue with new players. Aliens do NOT suck, but they ARE very hard to use. That in itself makes them "suck" in the hands of new players. And sadly I think we are going to see the same amount of this "new player" suckage even with the patch. You really can't expect everyone to play at they're best and know all the tricks. <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->
And so far I haven't seen a lot about how to TEACH people to really extract the potential out of aliens. Until I see a guide on how to use the simple bite attack of the Skulks and HIT, I don't think we are going to see all that many alien victories on pup servers. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
the main problems i see it are:
Teams are very often 6 marines vs 2-4 aliens.... which makes the game pretty much unplayable as an alien.... and people just wont change from marines i have even see guys come in on a 6vs2 game and take the marines so you had a 8vs2 game ainstead woooot great fun dont ya think <!--emo&:angry:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'><!--endemo-->
the alien turrets more or less suck, I have killed 3 alien turrests with just an lmg and my first suit of armour easy.... just had the comm drop some ammo for me
otherwise it is kinda balanced... well yea to bring down a HA IS tuff escpecially since he can insta kill anthing besides and onos, a fade lives for line 1-2 seconds if the marine get close....
one problem is that as soon as the marines start loosing alot of marines just quit and go to another server wich makes the marines whine about uneven teams, and most alien players dont whant to change becouse they have actually managed to win for once....
and one of the maps are very hard for aliens.. i dont remember the name but its so small the marinse can easily just go and camp one of hte hive zones and maybe even 2 of them then we can do anything as aliens....
so my wanted changes are:
Make the node cheaper to build in some way either make it cheaper to morph to a gorge or in some other way let the alines get new nodes faster in the beginning... that usualy gets them down, the marines expand fast with lots of instakilling towers and resource nodes while we sit on our but whating for 35 reosurces to we can morph and build...
make the grenaed launcher either incredibley expensive, or Slower ROF and lower damge to half or at least with 25%, or make the affected are alot smaller together with the rof change
I always play aliens and I will tell you that <b>aside from the bugs that have been discussed 4 billion times and will be fixed very soon</b> the aliens are perfectly fine and I have no problem playing them.
I've seen probably about 4 alien won games, a couple games that just went on forever and I gave up, and 4 or 5 marine won games.
Playing as a marine on a server with normal resource rules is a very nerveracking experience. A single alien who knows what hes doing can take like.. 4 marines out in a row without stopping, then hide, and do it again when they respawn. A single lerk can effectively make a route impassible for marines in the same way that turrets make routes "impassible" for aliens. Trying to hit a lerk who knows where he is flying, and is simultanously spiking you to death is a nerve wracking experience. Especially when that lerk is working with a gorge and theres webbing everywhere. While aliens may seem like a deathmatch race.. they are more than that. If humans all ran in different directions at the start of the game, people would probably be screaming that humans had no hope. Ok, the aliens dont have a commander to shout at them, but when an individual alien is more powerful than anything the marines can muster, you've got to wonder whether that matters.
Skulk with some upgrades + Heavy marine with HMG is a very even match. I know, I've been there myself. Defending a resource node on your own with no turret backup and only the odd sound to warn you of inbound teeth is very unnerving. One time it took my commander screaming "BEHIND YOU!" into my ear to warn me that skulk death was inbound. Luckily I span, and unloaded enough rounds into its mouth to kill it with only seconds to spare. That was defending a resource nodule on ns_eclipse - the one in a little alcove in the access corridors. If the skulk had gone through the vent.. I'd have been dead. I know because I've done exactly that, as a skulk. Through the vent. onto their head, dead marine. Doesnt matter what they are wearing. If they've got heavy armour.. even better. You are wasting their money.
I'm ranting now.. but the point is.. what everyone else has said. Sorry to bring it to this, but - the teams are fair. Quit whining.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/skulk.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/skulk.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
so to sum it all up
-aliens could use more damaging attacks, better defence
-alien turrets need to made "not weak and useless"
-they could also use more structures to build
but thats just my opinion
Yes you are, NOW LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID. The game IS balanced with experienced players, but NOT with "n00bs". It's a whole different style of play for them, and its really hard to get used to. And I don't think we will see a balanced game on pup servers for months.
Take grenades for example, what do alien has that match that? Nothing!!!!!!!!
I always play aliens, because when they do win, it's awsome and fun and everything. Currently, the only way to win is for everyone to do a job and do it flawlessly, the rate at which a team of 2 marines can build an outpost guarded by 4 turrets is unbeleivable.
So it annoys me when the marines are dominating and they never attack the hive, just sit at their closest outpost building turrets, and its obvious they're not going to lose because the aliens can't move without being shot by 84,000 different turrets. When that happens I just change teams and end it.
So you are proposing that the game should be 'balanced' for 'n00bs' so that whenever you have a remotely experienced alien player the marines stand no chance at all?
I understand that people are getting frustrated with aliens, they can be frustratingly difficult to play at times. When I started playing 5 days ago I screamed unbalanced myself, but then I made it a point to play only as aliens for a bit and try and figure out what was going on. Eventually I figured out what was going on, and this only took 5 days. If you watch the aliens now versus on Thursday, you can see the difference, more and more stories are popping up about aliens beating the Frontiersman, even on unbalanced servers. Its all a matter of learning how to use the aliens.
For example, people complain they can't just tear a marine to shreds with a skulk. It is possible, I've killed 3+ marines in the course of a few seconds. But a lot of the time I do miss and don't kill the marine in the 2 bites it should take. Now in most games I play I would simply keep trying to kill the marine, and hope he doesn't turn me into chop steak with his LMG or whatever; this won't work in NS, instead try running away, then coming at him from some crazy angle in a few second from a different angle, or ambushing him down the hall or something. If you're lucky you might even have a cluster of defense chambers and offensive towers down the hall that you can retreat to and heal, making it all that much harder for Mr. Marine. Its all a matter of learning what the strengths of the aliens are, and using them to your advantage.
Since the release Ive seen my alien budies and myself all tearing through marines.
I myself have some stories
How about holding sewers with only myself as a fade.. with backup O and D towers i had built at a bottleneck pipe. I a formitable amount of scirmishes with 3 or more heavies with lmg and gls. I tore through them... while the rest of my team moved in another sector. If one fade can hold back 5 heaves every 2 minutes with no losses... id say that works better than a turret.
Skulks... Ive seen guys tear through 6 or so marines with these guys untouched... Personally Ive torn through 2 heavies unscathed.
Also turrrets are useless sometimes when protecting a hallway.. just skulk.. run along the walls and past.. then morph and kill some TSA bastards.
ummm.... tell me how this is balanced.....
I was alien, we had 3 hives, all upgrades. Outnumbered marines 1.5 to 1. Yet.... we couldn't break through their base with 4 onos, 2 fades, lerks, gorges... whatever. We move in we get turretted to death. (Opposing comander had built a command console wall with turrets behind them)
18 xenocides, 4 onos, and countless wasted resources later the marines break out.
Urm?
There are a couple of bugs which are damaging the resource structure of the game. They are not operating as they were INTENDED nor as they were originally BALANCED.
Every time you talk about rebalancing the game, you end up sounding more and more foolish. Please wait for the patch which will fix the BUG, not the balance.