Epic Games
DC_Darkling
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
<div class="IPBDescription">ol' 1.04</div> nonono.. its not another 1.04 topic. This is my ideas about why those games were so different then these today. More epic, more fun. I say add reasons. Never know if they listen. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
* no rfk
I mean, if a team loses all RTs they deserve to lose. Besides how can you gain resources. they magicly apear? in the old days both teams did not matter to rush cause exept for a life you ahd nothing to lose. We do not need ppl going for kills to get rfk. Also this would stop these freaking early fades. Without they have to actually fight over RTs again. this made it way more fun.
* techtrees. They were different. You HAD to make choices. First rines.. If you pumped res in a obs you lacked phasetech. If you wanted Phasetech you had to get a proto. Sure, its a little less logic but it forced choices. Not "we tech up arms and obs and do proto lateron cause we own already"
Also it was costyer. With the res only coming from RTs each upgrade was a critical desision.
Kharaa aswell. it was more expensive, a gorge had to make choices what to get first. upgrades? or save for a hive. Now a hive is a bit more expensive then 3 chambers which makes it a 5 min mark easy.
* and about kharaa.. one gorge was better. One person desiding to put down OCs, chambers, RTs, hives. If you got the phatteh IT HURT. A gorge had to watch out, and pick his objectives carefully. Hunting Rts was prime but it exposed the risk of getting in a squad.
* DMS or MDS were both used. basicly cause the old celerity was badass. it made a great battle, no regen but hardly any hits. also you could restore from mistakes cause:
* bases or better said outposts either had a TF or a PG. most had both but a PG early game ment lack of alot of other tech. Also the lerk with spikes could take it out fairly great. and the kharaa could use gates. THIS made great strategic value and flaws. Comms had to think to place them and it ment more fun. And I already said MDS also worked.
* And of course rines had a good chance aswell. hievs were expensive. Get one down and it hurt.. BADLY. It ment a great blow. also you amde sure no higher lifeforms could evolve again. THAT was good. acomplishment. YES. ok, a group of dedicated lerks could eventually spike a hive back. but thats called a comeback. Something I have not seen in anythign since 2.0 (no real comebacks)
But rines could push a hive. Also the kharaa had a central gorge, a big advantage but if you DID get the phatteh you had a great few min free game. And of course, one gorge could not be anywhere. A comm had more view. he could put up a good small outpost being able to hold anythign lower then fade, usually we were fighting 2 hive lockdowns, not a 1 hive lock. THIS was great, gain a hive, lose a hive.
Thats basicly my view. this made it more different each match. A comm had a strategy, a gorge aswell. A comm desided to get PGs, the gorge went for RT hunt instead of hive saving. If rines were very active and no guards nearby a gorge went hive saving or made WOLs. Comms also adapted. you could make mistakes and RESTORE.
Why they ever changed it is beyond my understanding. New versions have the same boring DMS, sometimes it differs. Mistakes are not forgiven, alot of rambos, early fade and hard to break lockdowns. Almost each battle is the same. If you lose a hive you now do not gain another, you either win or lose. It got mroe boring, less fun. I'd say bring back that spark.
ok.. maybe its a 1.04 topic after all, but I tried to push it more towards the epics rather then the 1.04 itself.
Hope I made my point.
thats all
* no rfk
I mean, if a team loses all RTs they deserve to lose. Besides how can you gain resources. they magicly apear? in the old days both teams did not matter to rush cause exept for a life you ahd nothing to lose. We do not need ppl going for kills to get rfk. Also this would stop these freaking early fades. Without they have to actually fight over RTs again. this made it way more fun.
* techtrees. They were different. You HAD to make choices. First rines.. If you pumped res in a obs you lacked phasetech. If you wanted Phasetech you had to get a proto. Sure, its a little less logic but it forced choices. Not "we tech up arms and obs and do proto lateron cause we own already"
Also it was costyer. With the res only coming from RTs each upgrade was a critical desision.
Kharaa aswell. it was more expensive, a gorge had to make choices what to get first. upgrades? or save for a hive. Now a hive is a bit more expensive then 3 chambers which makes it a 5 min mark easy.
* and about kharaa.. one gorge was better. One person desiding to put down OCs, chambers, RTs, hives. If you got the phatteh IT HURT. A gorge had to watch out, and pick his objectives carefully. Hunting Rts was prime but it exposed the risk of getting in a squad.
* DMS or MDS were both used. basicly cause the old celerity was badass. it made a great battle, no regen but hardly any hits. also you could restore from mistakes cause:
* bases or better said outposts either had a TF or a PG. most had both but a PG early game ment lack of alot of other tech. Also the lerk with spikes could take it out fairly great. and the kharaa could use gates. THIS made great strategic value and flaws. Comms had to think to place them and it ment more fun. And I already said MDS also worked.
* And of course rines had a good chance aswell. hievs were expensive. Get one down and it hurt.. BADLY. It ment a great blow. also you amde sure no higher lifeforms could evolve again. THAT was good. acomplishment. YES. ok, a group of dedicated lerks could eventually spike a hive back. but thats called a comeback. Something I have not seen in anythign since 2.0 (no real comebacks)
But rines could push a hive. Also the kharaa had a central gorge, a big advantage but if you DID get the phatteh you had a great few min free game. And of course, one gorge could not be anywhere. A comm had more view. he could put up a good small outpost being able to hold anythign lower then fade, usually we were fighting 2 hive lockdowns, not a 1 hive lock. THIS was great, gain a hive, lose a hive.
Thats basicly my view. this made it more different each match. A comm had a strategy, a gorge aswell. A comm desided to get PGs, the gorge went for RT hunt instead of hive saving. If rines were very active and no guards nearby a gorge went hive saving or made WOLs. Comms also adapted. you could make mistakes and RESTORE.
Why they ever changed it is beyond my understanding. New versions have the same boring DMS, sometimes it differs. Mistakes are not forgiven, alot of rambos, early fade and hard to break lockdowns. Almost each battle is the same. If you lose a hive you now do not gain another, you either win or lose. It got mroe boring, less fun. I'd say bring back that spark.
ok.. maybe its a 1.04 topic after all, but I tried to push it more towards the epics rather then the 1.04 itself.
Hope I made my point.
thats all
Comments
But hey; it's summer vacation for NS-team too. I bet nothing is going to happen for at least three more months. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You did in 1.04.
GO back to 1.04
Implement CURRENT JetPack (+ 25% more thrust perhaps?)
Implement CURRENT lerk but replace PS with 1.04 spores, replace current spores w/ 1.04 spikes.
Implement CAT PACKS , ELECTRIC TURRET FACTORIES
Make fades 1 hive alien (onos still needs 3)
Change the hive res count (gorges get full all the time, at hive two you can get 75 100 res)
GIVE BACK THE 1.04 ONOS!!! IT WAS FREAKING FEARED!
GIVE BACK THE 1.04 HEAVY ARMOR!
Implement Hand Nades
As for the onos: Attacks
<b>Gore:</b> 1.04 style, but with 130 dmg per hit
<b>Paralyze:</b> 1.04 style (hehe, hold still freaking JP's! (^-^)
<b>Devour:</b> New hive 2 ability. Just like it is now, but with the option to spit out the player, reduces moving speed to 2/3 instead of 3/4
<b>Charge:</b> 1.04 style
Other Stats: 1.04 style, INCLUDING THE HITBOX BUG!
As for lerk: Attacks
<b>Bite:</b> Current style, but for 75 dmg per hit (not 60)
<b>Spikes:</b> 1.04 style
<b>Umbra:</b> 1.04 style (blocks 3/5 bullets I believe)
<b>Spore:</b> NEW: Dmg, 25 per second in cloud, ONLY hurts armor (even Heavy Armor)
Other stats: current style (including flight model, WITH the ability to hover by pressing the jump+use key)
As for Fade: Attacks
<b>Swipe:</b> current, but does 100 dmg/ swipe
<b>Blink:</b> 1.04 style (took MUCH more skill and was MUCH more usefull, also could tell difference between quickswitch and blink+swipe scripts)
<b>Metabolize:</b> CURRENT STYLE (explained below)
<b>Bile Bomb:</b> NEW STYLE: does 400 dmg, 2x vs structures. Uses up 100% of energy, for one MASSIVE SPLASH RADIUS bomb. AFFECTS MARINES ARMOR ONLY
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I suggest that the fade looses acid rocket simply because the new Bile Bomb would MORE than make up for it... cloakwalk into base and WHAMO release one badazz bomb on em, stripping armor. of course, you'll likely die, but that's why you have skulks/lerks backing you up... right? Let em finish the job)</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stats:
HP: 100
AP: 350 <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(I believe the fade should be a hit and run, thus the low HP and high AP... should he try to stick around for more than a few moments vs rines... he dies! Simple as that, makes it a better turret farm breaker, doing 800 dmg per bile bomb (so with adren+regen, 800 dmg per 10 seconds?)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--></span>
Gorge: Attacks
<b>Heal Spray:</b> 1.04 style, but with 1/2 the damage and 1/2 the energy usage
<b>Acid Rocket:</b> CURRENT FADE STYLE, but with 3/4 the energy useage. (explained below)
<b>Web:</b> Like 1.04, basicly. NO WEB LIMIT, just webs disappear after too many are placed in one area. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>BABBLERS:</b> YEAH BABY! We know em, WE LOVE EM! They're stupid as hell, but hey! They are great get-away distractions! Perhaps use the origional SQUEAK AI?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I say replace SPIT with ACID ROCKET to give gorges something WORTH using to defend themselves. After all, they are now a BUNCH slower, but slightly more heavily armoured...</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stats:
HP: 150
AP: 150 (allows gorge to have a chance of awaiting backup)
SPEED: 3/4 current speed (should be slower to compensate for more armor)
Skulk: Attacks
<b>Bite:</b> CURRENT style, but with 80 damage per hit
<b>Parasite:</b> Current style, but with NO damage per hit, NO sound played (icon only), and 1.5x the range.
<b>Primal Scream:</b> Like the current lerks scream, but with 1.5x all effects (explained below)
<b>Leap:</b> NEW: Uses 15% of energy, moves skulk 1.5x the current leap at 2x the speed. Does 10 damage for every .1 seconds of contact (so 100 dmg for a full second of contact) (explained below)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I decided it'd be best to replace the old leap with primal scream to give the skulk a way to get an added boost before going on a kamikazi rush on the 4 HA/HMG's coming to the hive. It'll make that celerity skulk even FASTER, simply buying time and confusing the HECK outa the HA's as they desprately try to bring it down! It also gives a "skulk pack" some advantage over being alone (one leader screams, they all then run in and attack)</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I also decided to replace XENOCIDE with this new LEAP to remove one of, what I find to be, the most ANNOYING aspects of the game: Xenocide can push you ALL OVER even thru walls and such... REALLY annoying when high up with HA+HMG+WELDER+MINES... This new leap should be a suitable replacement (given SOME skill with it) where xenocide was switch, click, run in, boom</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stats:
HP: 50
AP: 25 (gives a little more longevity)
SPEED: +15 units/second over current
So, what do you all think? The marines I have yet to decide upon so <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Also to come are my alien chamber ideas!
Since I've never played 1.04, I'm really curious how it would be..
Txs for mentioning. I forgot a important detail.
Rines TRIED to techup to JP asap mostly, but not always. great OC placement and lerks stopped this to easy. They did NOT go DMS every single game. (if so, I would look for other servers) MDS was also very common.
And even if it was repetitive, it was still more epic. These days its STILL repetitive so hell. Thats still worse.
They could not rush to fade without a 2nd hive. Not THATS a big thing I forgot to mention. I mean, sure I mentioned it a tad but think about it some more. 2 hive lock effectively STOPPED anythign above lerk. That made it very interesting.
Also another point I forgot.. Why was the old system better? 1 hive ment 33 res. That ment skulk gorge or lerk.
we only had one gorge, so skip that. If half the team was lerk it was way enought. So we ahd half a team who only could be skulk. PERFECT. 33 res to use on upgrades. you saw skulks actually using there upgrades. It was great. that again is lost lately cause we all save for higher lifeforms. How bad.
Every time a game of later than 1.04 is played, god kills a kitten.
Please... think of the kittens!
GO AIRPLANE! VRRRROOOOOM!
Because it was new. NS was a new experiance back then. Now in version 3.0 most people have been playing NS for a long time, so nothing is new. You people make it sound like everyone loved 1.04 but the devs were l337 evil and made the change to 2.0.
They just want that feeling back, and playing a game of 1.04 might be fun for a bit, but once you get used to it again it becomes un fun.
stop with fake nostalgia ...
- when one hive has been more important than 6 resnodes (it all about res now).
- when 2 fades were game enders. (not onoses, fades made the game in 1.04).
- when everyone was moaning about who goes gorge and what to do.
- when there was no game without nadespam AND turret farms or a quick skulk rush.
- when there was a wol of 8 chambers around every 2nd corner and you could walk on a straight line of turrets trough the whole map.
- when gorges had no bilebomb, fafdes no metabolize and onoses no stomp.
- Babblers, okay, hive 3 abilities are meant to be rather useless but they were ridiculous.
- When umbra actually did something (oops bad example , kidding <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Old ns_Eclipse was a good example of that; in several lerks used to camp behind the doors, knowing that if rines tried to chase them, happy fragging. If not, happy "spiking" (lerks had both spikes and bite).
you just realize its another online fps
just think back to your first online fps,and remember how cool it seemed
if i go back and play team fortress classic,yeah its fun for about 10-20 minutes,but its just not the same as it was when i first started playing
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
- when one hive has been more important than 6 resnodes (it all about res now).
- when 2 fades were game enders. (not onoses, fades made the game in 1.04).
- when everyone was moaning about who goes gorge and what to do.
- when there was no game without nadespam AND turret farms or a quick skulk rush.
- when there was a wol of 8 chambers around every 2nd corner and you could walk on a straight line of turrets trough the whole map.
- when gorges had no bilebomb, fafdes no metabolize and onoses no stomp.
- Babblers, okay, hive 3 abilities are meant to be rather useless but they were ridiculous.
- When umbra actually did something (oops bad example , kidding <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok.. minus the bugfixes which are fine. I call this a CHALLANGE. Something NS now lacks.
* its indeed all about res. But back in the old days it was all about hives & bases. And if you forgot res and the other team did get your res down.. gg. it ruled
* I disagree simply cause fade could not do everything
* depended on the server. That you never had a good server is basicly your prob. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
* So rines actually had pushing power. It was fun. A great feeling of acomplishment.
* ok..ok.. I never said nothing improved
* ok.. agreed aswell
* o..k....
Basicly the points you just named made it a challange