Comming In Early-game.
GunFodder
Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Members
Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Members
<div class="IPBDescription">MT? Upgrades?</div> Most of my comming experience has come in games where no one assumes the CC within the first 20 sec. or so of a match. The problem is that usually the reason for this is that there are no experienced players on the marine side in my experiences.
In this situation I've tried to comm like guys that I've played with. It seems though that for most of the players, giving them full upgrades and HMGs/HA is a throwaway. Nearly everytime I've lost, I've still managed to get a heavy train going w/ HMG/shotties/weld. and they get obliterated by 2-hive fades and skulks. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So, I'm thinking. Would starting a game IP, Arm., Obs then getting MT be a decent start strat. with less then stellar players? It does prevent a lot of ambushes that new players will surely perish to, often I've seen. After getting phase tech, I would then boost Armor levels (but not Weap), depending on HMG/Shotties/GL to b enough firepower for the mid-game.
In this scenario I would also back off from building Turrent Farms and elec. RTs, saving res. for upgrades. Suggestions? Is an early MT as effective as I think it would be?
In this situation I've tried to comm like guys that I've played with. It seems though that for most of the players, giving them full upgrades and HMGs/HA is a throwaway. Nearly everytime I've lost, I've still managed to get a heavy train going w/ HMG/shotties/weld. and they get obliterated by 2-hive fades and skulks. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So, I'm thinking. Would starting a game IP, Arm., Obs then getting MT be a decent start strat. with less then stellar players? It does prevent a lot of ambushes that new players will surely perish to, often I've seen. After getting phase tech, I would then boost Armor levels (but not Weap), depending on HMG/Shotties/GL to b enough firepower for the mid-game.
In this scenario I would also back off from building Turrent Farms and elec. RTs, saving res. for upgrades. Suggestions? Is an early MT as effective as I think it would be?
Comments
as for MT first; its great once you have it, of course, and the earlier the better. but heres why MT first can bork up your game:
1) It takes a long time to research, leaving you upgrade-less during early-game
2) It delays your weapon/armor upgrades, and might delay it long enough so that you can not overcome early fades.
In my opinion the 2 best early upgrades, no matter the quality of your marines, are MT and Armour 1. So getting these as soon as possible is always a good idea. So your strategy of MT early works well. I would suggest you get Armour 1 as soon as possible after you have MT on the go though. With these 2 upgrades your marines will perform well.
"I've still managed to get a heavy train going w/ HMG/shotties/weld. and they get obliterated by 2-hive fades and skulks."
Your problem is right here ----> "2-hive". Every alien class is superb with 2 hives. 2nd hive abilities are by far the best the aliens have. There are only a few strategies that you can use that are succesful if you allow aliens to firmly establish 2 hives. So the key is to never allow aliens to get 2 hives up. You need to constantly be scanning or scouting to see if a hive is going up. As soon as you see one building, attack it. If they have fades, don't be afraid to hand out shotguns for the attack. Shotgun rushes work doubly well vs unbuilt hives.
An alternative to denying the 2nd hive is to deny res. Here you can allow the 2nd hive to go up, but you can't let them ever have more than the 2 hive res towers.
2) It delays your weapon/armor upgrades, and might delay it long enough so that you can not overcome early fades. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And it stops your ability to scanner sweep for a while and you are delaying phase gate research (which IMO is more crucial in the beginning if pulled off correctly).
I'd say get MT ASAP in a pub but do it after armor 1 and phase gates.
Your problem is right here ----> "2-hive". Every alien class is superb with 2 hives. 2nd hive abilities are by far the best the aliens have. There are only a few strategies that you can use that are succesful if you allow aliens to firmly establish 2 hives. So the key is to never allow aliens to get 2 hives up. You need to constantly be scanning or scouting to see if a hive is going up. As soon as you see one building, attack it. If they have fades, don't be afraid to hand out shotguns for the attack. Shotgun rushes work doubly well vs unbuilt hives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A lot of the time, especially in public games, the problem is the marines and not the superbness of alien classes at two hives. They split up, they don't weld each other, they all decide to reload at the same time, they can't aim.
There are two major concerns with two hive aliens - one is umbra and the other is stomp. Fades and skulks, without lerk and/or onos support, should not be able to take down a full heavy train if you have at least wp2/ar2 upgrades. If they do, then there are only two explanations: the marines suck or the fades/skulks are bugged. The first is usually the case.
Now, I'm not saying that second hive denial isn't important. However, the game is never really over until your resource pool has ran completely dry and the marine playerlist is blood-red. The other truth is that the game is already over before it starts if you start with an incompetent team.
won plenty of games without it (yes, i know, it wont work outside pubs)
In general MT first works better with less players, and on specific maps (such as ns_nancy, where it's a gold mine), and worse with more players and larger maps like agora, metal, or nothing, although it will always give the comm a good edge.
I'd make sure to hunt gorges with more than half my team, and good meds. Did I mention meds.
That being said, I probably would do PT first as I usually do. I like to pressure the aliens early on with forward outposts. Just hope the MT gives my 'rines better chances to prepare for alien attacks...try to eliminate their RFK, as I see the major problem is a good skulk running up 7-8 kills early allowing for a really quick fade.
Thnx for the input guys.