Grenade launchers-- 6 shots in 5 seconds?

Keyler · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">I mean, throw the khara a freaken bone</div>[rant]
With A heavy armor\grenade combo two fronteer's men are able to destroy 8 offense turrets...
I find this a serious imbalance
now, this IS the extreme case and it has happened on more than one occasion on many servers...
the Khara are defense less.. when three players are lobbing 6 grenade at INCREDIBLY high speed... almost 1.5 a second (kind of like having 2 2\3 kids) it is very difficult to establish a serious defense...
and to top it off, the turrets have slow firing/slow reacting defense
Now, I'm not asking to get rid of the nade laucnher by all means, maybe just toning it down a little bit? I know the damage is not very high from one single person, but you get all 6 of those in one concentrated spot and that's massive damage...
Just my insight into a little bit of an imbalance on the weapons side

yeah, and what is with everyone whoring the troopers side? beginning of a new map everyone RUSHES for the troopers and maybe 5 (in a 16 player server) will mozey on over to alien..
I know the new patch will address it, but coem on guys.. BREAK AWAY FORM CS! =)

[/rant]

Greedo · November 2002

The thing with grenades is that they are balanced. If there's a marine with nades, then he doesn't have an effective weapon against you as a player, and it is really easy to close the distance to melee versus him and kill him. If he's got an HMG toting buddy at his side, that's a whole lot of resources spent to get them there.
1. Build 25 RP armory.
2. 35 RP to upgrade armory.
3. Build 50 RP arms lab.
4. 23 RP HMG.
5. 27 RP GL.
For a grand total of 160 resources spent to give 2 marines an HMG and a GL. If I spend 160 resources, I want my men to be effective. And they are. If you want to give both of them Heavy Armor, that's an extra 45 RP building, 50 RP research, and 2 20 RP drops, for 135 more resources, 295 resources total. If I spend 295 resources, I damn well better have a very good shot at taking down a hive.

Things aren't always going to be balanced base on how powerful they seem. You always need to factor in cost into the equation.

Banan · November 2002

First off: Webs, they are important, second off, defence, use your hive sight, if you see someone ruining your outpost you need to be there really quick, people with nade launchers are easy to kill with the skulk, they just go berserk and usually wind up blowing up theirselves or getting killed.

Spydey · November 2002

Lerks are very good agaisnt nade marines.. you can either fly from perch to perch (so fast he cant hit you, and you can escape explosions easily) Or just flap about strafing him while he cant hit you in the air.

Vektuz · November 2002

nothing works when people realise that they cant kill teammates with grenades. What happens then is some guy runs in firing grenades at your turrets and hive, while HIS FRIENDS run in behind firing grenades at him.

Th entire world is filled with explosions but humans are mysteriously unharmed by the explosions happening underneath them. But all the explosions grant them MELEE IMMUNITY.

krursk2 · November 2002

well yeah that's expensive but on every server I've played on commanders just use the resource bug and spawn 50-60 heavy armour and virtually unlimited grenade's and weapons. not to mention lots of turrets. How is that fair and balanced?

OneManArmy · November 2002

well then a problem is the fact that every marine can get heavy armour and a nade launcher. I have yet to be in a game where the marines had to conserve recources. Personally I think for the kind of power the marines have (the weapons + the all seeing commander) thier stuff should cost a lot more than it does...

muska · November 2002

i have to agree with the grenade launchers.. me and my buddy destroyed an entire minibase with just launchers.. the skulks suck mainly because the have to run up to the guy. i find the main reasons why people arent aliens is because the lag makes it hard to kill since u have to come up to them to attack. with a HMG, u can blow up any alien that comes by except an Onos. second, getting resources to evolve is a huge drag. we're just gonna have to wait till the lag fixes to see whether the aliens need upgrading.

Deathcheez · November 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Greedo386 @ Nov. 02 2002,23:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The thing with grenades is that they are balanced. If there's a marine with nades, then he doesn't have an effective weapon against you as a player, and it is really easy to close the distance to melee versus him and kill him. If he's got an HMG toting buddy at his side, that's a whole lot of resources spent to get them there.
1. Build 25 RP armory.
2. 35 RP to upgrade armory.
3. Build 50 RP arms lab.
4. 23 RP HMG.
5. 27 RP GL.
For a grand total of 160 resources spent to give 2 marines an HMG and a GL. If I spend 160 resources, I want my men to be effective. And they are. If you want to give both of them Heavy Armor, that's an extra 45 RP building, 50 RP research, and 2 20 RP drops, for 135 more resources, 295 resources total. If I spend 295 resources, I damn well better have a very good shot at taking down a hive.

Things aren't always going to be balanced base on how powerful they seem. You always need to factor in cost into the equation.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Cost prohibitive? Maybe in the first 20 minutes. I was just commander in a game and through most of the endgame I always had at least 700+ rps. More then enough to keep my boys in Heavy Armor with HMGs. 160 resources is nothing.

Unit · November 2002

The IMPORTANT THING IS: According to other threads and news, the resource-models are BUGGED right now, that they give WAY too many resources WAY too fast. Now if this is correct, then u shouldn't see more than 2 marines with GLs running together, since they are the most expensive weapon for the marines and the commander needs to reserve resources for other needs.

If any part of this is wrong please correct me.

the_stalker · November 2002

thats why you make lots of webs and stuff to stop them and then you attack them while there slowed and cant fight back

Keyler · November 2002

and see, that's the thing-- with the bug, the aliens usually can't get that third hive up with all the defense in time to get webs..
yeah, it has been done.. but with running around a million turrets

SonnyG007 · November 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Greedo386 @ Nov. 02 2002,23:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The thing with grenades is that they are balanced. If there's a marine with nades, then he doesn't have an effective weapon against you as a player, and it is really easy to close the distance to melee versus him and kill him. If he's got an HMG toting buddy at his side, that's a whole lot of resources spent to get them there.
1. Build 25 RP armory.
2. 35 RP to upgrade armory.
3. Build 50 RP arms lab.
4. 23 RP HMG.
5. 27 RP GL.
For a grand total of 160 resources spent to give 2 marines an HMG and a GL. If I spend 160 resources, I want my men to be effective. And they are. If you want to give both of them Heavy Armor, that's an extra 45 RP building, 50 RP research, and 2 20 RP drops, for 135 more resources, 295 resources total. If I spend 295 resources, I damn well better have a very good shot at taking down a hive.

Things aren't always going to be balanced base on how powerful they seem. You always need to factor in cost into the equation.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
It doesn't cost 160 resource points to make a GL and HWG. Thats like saying it costs 166 points to make one skulk cause you have to spend 80 points on a hive. 3 offensive chambers to gaurd it and a defensive chamber to make the skulk effective. Come on. the prequisite don't matter cause it's a one time fee. It may cost 160 to make "one" team of GL and HMG. If you simple double that you can get "five" teams of marines that can kill pretty much any amount of onos that come its way. Also you can't say that right now there isn't a balance problem with the teams. Theres a reason why very few people wants to be a kharaa. Sure there fun at jumping out of the shadows but in the end theres very little chance that they win. You can go on about how balanced the teams are but telling anyone that makes a critisium about the game that your just going to ignore them because only you and the playtesters think the game is balanced is wrong. I've seen alot of people bring up comments about the turrent, HMG, heavy armor, and now GL being unbalanced. But they are all bring up real facts that I've seen and alot of other people have seen in game. Hopefully the next patch with the resource economy will fix most of these things but still, almost every post I've seen playtesters make is telling anyone who comes up with a problem in the game to "**** off it's not a bug it's your lack of math skills...blah blah" Listen to us at least. And take an example from silverfix and instead of ignoring us post some hints on how to be better aliens. Ok I'm done ranting for now <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Flayra · November 2002

A lot of these problems will just plain vanish with the upcoming 1.01 patch. It will force relative team balance, which will fix the "resource bug", and also force people to learn how to play the Kharaa "properly".

Sunder · November 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Flayra @ Nov. 03 2002,03:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and also force people to learn how to play the Kharaa "properly".</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
And what if they don't <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Rico1 · November 2002

Then they will die like they are dying now...

I dont see how the khaaraa are unbalanced. To prove this fact me and a couple of forum regulars played against a team of 7 PTs as khaaraa. I found myself crying for my mama 6 mins later because they completely destroyed our marine base and had onos and a lot of other thing already. The resources came in as they should (admin dint mess with them) and we dint even get to see HA or GL or HMGs throught the whole game. Needless to say we got beaten bad by the "underpowered team".

Now, if the aliens seem underpowered its because people dont know how to use them, i have been seeing onos just run away from turrets because they scratch them and lerks with 3 hives trying to bite people without using umbra. Heck, ive seen people go skulk for the whole map because they dont know how to evolve... The problem with the khaaraa is that you actually have to THINK to use them. Theire not just slash and dash = win, you need strategy also, because marines have a commander, aliens have hive sight... (which btw, most people dont know how to use either...)

Perhaps people should read the manual before complaining about the teams?

PS: And yes, i HAVE been able to beat the marines in a regular server with strangers, i just told them what they needed to do, do a little commanding from underneath and we nailed them with some teamwork. All you people need is to learn how to play better thats all.

the_stalker · November 2002

hhmmm, then that means the kharaa players just arent good enough <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
how quick did you expand and all?
expand must happen quickly and immidiatly (like have maybe half the team rush for new base building) and have only 2 build and have like 3-4 others on guard <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
its not a good idea to have the team split up 3 ways
(have some at main base have a few goto one area and a few others goto another area) and its always good to have turrets next to your commander modes because aliens can get by door defenses easily with only a few problems like taking half damage
but your story really reminds me of this one game when the marines were cornered and they were making no extra power (because me and 2 skulks destroyed there commander building)
although the marines were real brave and fought for a long time with only lmg's even when we raided them with onos's
but there base was quickly dominated by kamikaze skulks <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Gibby · November 2002

I desprately hope my unfortunate experiences at pub play are because of tweaked resources by admins. Because last game played EVERY MARINE had a Heavy armor and HMG/Nadegun. We had them in the beginning, but they camped their base with 3000 turrets and eventually just got HA and nades/hmgs and just walked casually through the level demolising any strategic attempt at our parts to kill them (they were all parasited, all followed by multiple skulks, all the skulks died to those freaking god dang hmgs). Flayra I have faith in you... pleeeease fix this. Nade spam is unstoppable. HMG HA marines are walking tanks twice as good as an Onos. They have range, HUGE ROF, HUGE damage. Aliens have nothing that can kill HA marines effectively in any circumstance. Sorry if I sound ranty or hostile, but I've played enough losing games in the last 3 days to last a lifetime. I can kill them fine without HMGs or HA. But the aliens need some sort of armor piercing thing to get past that, or there needs to be a realistic limit on HA. If EVERY MARINE has it, aliens don't have a freaking chance. And that is proven again and again on pubs everywhere.

Why not make those pathetic lerk spikes armor piercing? people might actually use that class then. And I'm sure there's a few of you that are all about lerks. But on the pubs, they aren't played because they get no kills.

Aliens are the Deathmatch class? Nope, marines are. Since they're unkillable walking tanks in those getups. Aliens need teamwork more than marines.

All that stuff pre-release about marines HAVE to stick together? They don't. Because they know anything the aliens have can't punch through HA and a HMG.

Marine buildings go up so much faster than alien ones. Marines have a handy "god commander" who can heal them at a whim and drop ammo anywhere, which ruins a lot of good alien strategies like "wait until their out of ammo then attack".

Please consider making ammo and health only droppable in areas with a certain building (phase gate?). That would cause marines to have to think instead of just do.

God it's good to be a marine, and as i am the stupid type that always picks the understaffed team, I have gotten pretty used to being an alien, and dying to *censored* twinkmonkey HA toting HMG marines. Even a freaking ONOS is tore apart by those!

GajH! *head explodes*

...lol n00bz1!!
<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'>
*misc. splatter sounds*
<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/skulk.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'> <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/skulk.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'>
*gibbed* <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/skulk.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'> *splunk*

Grenade launchers-- 6 shots in 5 seconds?

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