Half Life Engine Limits

Dorian_Gray · May 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">For anyone who doubted them :p</div> Okay, for a test, I decided to see how many polies the HL engine could display onscreen. This was just to see how high-poly worldmodels would affect the engine. This was tested on ns_bast, running at 1600x1200@85Hz, on a Radeon 9600XT 128MB.
<a href='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/4.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/small/4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/5.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/small/5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/6.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/small/6.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/7.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/small/7.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<a href='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/8.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/small/8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>

Since these are resized screenies (links to the full 1600x1200 ones), you can't read the r_speeds. On the one with the phase gates AND TF's, the epoly count is 129,662. The next highest is all the TFs, with a count somewhere between 127,000 and 128,000. My FPS (normally 100 @ 1600x1200) dropped to the painfully low 17 fps (on the highest epoly one). The game just refused to crash, and I ran out of space. If anyone can think of a bigger single room (all visible by the comm), feel free to suggest it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Oh, and the second I tried to phase anywhere the server crashed. Badly.

Just goes to show that the HL engine can handle a lot more polies than it's given credit for.

Edit: misspelled a link

Fox_One · May 2004

Great viaduct, maybe?

Chrono · May 2004

wait so it would run fine till you phased? then it would crash? you should test around 30k polies see how that handles

Delarosa · May 2004

being able to phase is a KEY point to the game... keep crashing yourself and once you find a nice spot where you can have a bunch of eoply, and NOT crash.. give us those numbers...

Chrono · May 2004

ya you should slowly go less and less until its stable
then with those numbers we can figure out good poly counts

Dorian_Gray · May 2004

The phase crash was mainly due to the sheer number of phase gates I think. I'll keep testing until I can get it running smoothly.

Chrono · May 2004

keep us informed dorian and to test that phase crash thing only put 2 phase gates and a ton of TF's
another recomendation instead of TFs get some one to compile the TF model as medpack and drop a ton of them that way you can get a bunch of polygons real quick

Delarosa · May 2004

2568 poly per medpack...

mesh smoothed (and ugly as heck) armory...

Dorian_Gray · May 2004

That thing looks like... some kind of deformed octopus/nanite cross <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Delarosa · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dorian Gray @ May 19 2004, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> That thing looks like... some kind of deformed octopus/nanite cross <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
lets just say not *ALL* nanites were created equal.. mm k?

Chrono · May 2004

lol it doesnt matter what it looks like all that matters its high poly enough for you to do your tests <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

edit/
i just looked at the model in hlmv and all i gotta say is WTH! how did you manage to do that to the poor armory <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

ANeM · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chrono5454 @ May 19 2004, 09:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> lol it doesnt matter what it looks like all that matters its high poly enough for you to do your tests <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

edit/
i just looked at the model in hlmv and all i gotta say is WTH! how did you manage to do that to the poor armory <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
2 words.
"Humping hurts"

Delarosa · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (chrono5454 @ May 19 2004, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> lol it doesnt matter what it looks like all that matters its high poly enough for you to do your tests <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

edit/
i just looked at the model in hlmv and all i gotta say is WTH! how did you manage to do that to the poor armory <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
tools -> smoothe edges... 100% smoothed...

Dorian_Gray · May 2004

I'll get to the tests tomorrow... I was just reminded about the large quantity of physics work that was due late last month that I should probably start <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Dorian_Gray · May 2004

Okay. I couldn't get enough polies onscreen with the deformed armory pack, so I made a cylinder of 5k polies (exactly) in max. I tried for 10k, but it refused to compile. Next step was to spam the damn things. I managed to get to 170,000 polies before I couldn't place any more ("Too Many Stuctures Nearby").
<a href='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/max_poly.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/small/max_poly.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>

Next, I tested the crash I had with the phase gates. I spammed viaduct full of them, and had no problems phasing.
<a href='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/phase_max.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://dorian.carpe-noctem.ca/images/hltest/small/phase_max.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
I spammed cylinders (couldn't place very many), no problem phasing. The instability seems to be directly caused by the number of structures, not polygons. I filled every square inch of bast with TFs. I couldn't find room for any more. So I was going to go aliens and spam chambers over top of the tfs, but it crashed when I tried to join aliens (I think I filled all the spawnpoints with TFs). Don't have a screenie, since it crashed and took 20 minutes to fill the map.

So basically, the only side effect of having 170,000 polies onscreen was a reaaaaaallly low FPS. No instability from polygons, only from the structure spam.

EDIT:
Here's a Poly vs. FPS chart (1024x768, commander mode):
POLYGONS-----FPS

30600----------67
51000----------59
78200----------52
156400---------34
163200---------32
166600---------31
170000---------32

Vahn_Paktu · May 2004

Spam the meds on the left side then you should be able to spam them on the right when the left is full.

BlackPanther · May 2004

Id love to see an onos in the middle of an electrified TF field <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

hidden_snper · May 2004

a simpler test would be to make a sphere with about 5,000 pollies and have it affted by the lights and everything. then if you walk around you could really see if ther is lag. also consider system speeds /cooling

i personally have a program that allows me to overclock my radeon 9700 's ddr 600 mhz over its limit...

basicly, we have to find a machine that can easily display poly counts over over 1,000,000 easily ... meaning in the end you are right and the HL engine is pretty tuff.

/rant

PromoCL · May 2004

Epoly is the HL engines highest strength, it can go on forever with Epoly, its Wpoly that makes it chug.

Crono5 · May 2004

I'm a bit nub, but Epoly means entity poly and Wpoly means world poly?

BlackPanther · May 2004

epoly = models, sprites, etc... anything that isn't "static"
wpoly = the map, walls, floor, etc

KungFuSquirrel · May 2004

The thing that these tests aren't testing is texture memory. Sure, you can have 170,000 polys of turret factory or whatever on screen, but that's one model with one texture. What happens when you have fifteen models each with their own 'high-res' textures?

Be sure to do some texture memory tests as well. I'm not doubting you can squeeze out some high power (NW character model guidelines, for example, are 2500 polys and 2 512x512 maps), but just encouraging you to be as thorough as possible. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

CoolCookieCooks · May 2004

hmm, ill try making some models like that kfs

raz0r · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlackPanther @ May 20 2004, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Id love to see an onos in the middle of an electrified TF field <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
it sure ain't pretty
4 TFs electrifying at once is painful
8 TFs just.... rapes the onos

Thief · May 2004

someone make a map with a single huge room and make the texures wicked high poly and put some massively high poly worldmodels in it.. that should do the trick

ZeroByte · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Thief- @ May 22 2004, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> someone make a map with a single huge room and make the texures wicked high poly and put some massively high poly worldmodels in it.. that should do the trick  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Uhm.. hi-res map textures you mean? Seriously, you had me laughing at high-poly textures.

Half Life Engine Limits

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