<!--QuoteBegin-[WHO+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([WHO)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Them,May 18 2004, 05:30 PM] Jesus freaking christ. Some people won't ever be happy. They claim they'll be happy when they see one of these weapons, but that won't happen until it lands on your doorstep....
*Knock* *Knock*.... BOOM
And then you still won't be happy..... "How could they let this happen?".... whaaaaa..... whaaaaaaa...... WHAAAAAAAAAAAA <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't recall agreeing to be happy when presented with <i>one</i> of these weapons, and I doubt you'll find many people who would have floated that concession at the outset of the war.
I want to see the level of illegal activity-- and the evidence of ambitious programs and the <i>actual</i> stockpiles of <i>actual</i> potent weapons that were used for justification for the invasion.
No more, no less.
Are we too hard to please, or are you too eager to buy into a lame technicality? Well, there's one shell of ancient and probably inactive sarin gas-- we said he had WMDs, and he did! Case closed!
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-BathroomMonkey+May 18 2004, 11:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BathroomMonkey @ May 18 2004, 11:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Are we too hard to please, or are you too eager to buy into a lame technicality? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I could care less if the weapons are actually there. I subscribe to a completely different type of war policy than most. The policy basically boils down to this....
"Live the way that you feel is justified, accept criticism with a grain of salt, and beat the life out of anyone that gives you the evil-eye."
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said above, the detonation of a single 1980's era sarin gas shell is no more an indication of Saddam having WMDs than a 1916 era mustard gas shell being found in France is indicative of a German chemical weapons program. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err.. big difference... The person in charge of the country who would of made the 1916 era shell would not be the same one as today.
Saddam, Was in charge when this shell was made and he was in charge up until recently.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Err.. big difference... The person in charge of the country who would of made the 1916 era shell would not be the same one as today.
Saddam, Was in charge when this shell was made and he was in charge up until recently. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point was that both examples were from old programs. The finding of a 1980's era chemical shell does not indicate in any way that Saddam was manufacturing WMDs after the first Gulf War.
<!--QuoteBegin-[WHO]Them+May 18 2004, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([WHO]Them @ May 18 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I could care less if the weapons are actually there. I subscribe to a completely different type of war policy than most. The policy basically boils down to this....
"Live the way that you feel is justified, accept criticism with a grain of salt, and beat the life out of anyone that gives you the evil-eye."
I know it's not PC, but I don't care. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I would have thought that this Iraq war would be justified if Saddam actually <i>did </i>have an up and running WMD program, but it doesn't look that way so far. It's not like the Iraqi public wants the Coalition forces there, either. How do you judge what's justified?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My point was that both examples were from old programs. The finding of a 1980's era chemical shell does not indicate in any way that Saddam was manufacturing WMDs after the first Gulf War. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When was the year of construction mentioned (just wondering)?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Kimmitt said the shell belonged to a class of ordnance that Saddam's government said was destroyed before the 1991 Gulf war (search). Experts believe both the sarin and mustard gas weapons date back to that time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the WMDs the administration was looking for. I do, however, believe it is a clue. I wouldn't be suprised if the insurgents happened apon a storage of shells and started unknowingly making roadside bombs with sarin and mustard shells. Only time will tell. I honestly hope that this is not the WMD proof they are looking for, because than the threat of a gas attack on our troops is present once again.
Iraq is a big county, with lots of places to hide stuff. Give the adminstration time, for crying out loud. How fast do you think you can find a ball hidden in my house, than complicate that by mines and me shooting at you. Not everything is cut and paste; if anyone thought we were going to win and than poof the evidence would be right in front of our face; than they have little grasp on the reality outside of their bubble. Wars are no longer fought soley on the battle field, the media is a front as well. Sadam was not stupid, he was studied in war and had to know this. Sadam probably move any operations he had(If any) to syria and shot those who knew and could not be trusted.
CWG
The government fabricated the shells as WMDs is rediculous, and if they did everyone in office should be replaced. If all they could do is plant 2 shells, than they dont deserve to be in office.
So... what? A chemical agent in trace quantities shows up (I'd hardly consider Sarin a WMD. It was released into the Tokyo subway, remember? If it were a 'WMD' it'd have killed everyone on that train, not just a whole of 12) in a roadside bomb (who the hell would use it there?) that is used by insurgents, many of which came from other countries outside Iraq to fight the US, and that automatically means it belong to Saddam? This make absolutely no sense to me.
If the insurgents did find Sarin (from Saddam), it would have been in much larger quantities then enough for that lousy bomb, and that's assuming it even came from Saddam, which it probably didn't. They probably just brought some with them from wherever.
There is a program on MSNBC tonight at 10 that will be discussing (yes, discussing not just bantering if wether sarin is a WMD or not) the sarin gas thing in Iraq. I suggest we all watch it because that program always always always makes great points on the world, it's sitautation, etc. Seriously, it will be worth it.
Of course, if you miss it I can just post a transcript from it tomorrow. Either or.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Iraq is a big county, with lots of places to hide stuff. Give the adminstration time, for crying out loud. How fast do you think you can find a ball hidden in my house, than complicate that by mines and me shooting at you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The administration has had over a year. They fought a war where not one single WMD was used. Why on earth would Saddam, if he had the weapons, not have used them against US forces or Israel? He had nothing to lose.
The US has been watching Iraq like hawks for over a decade. They knew where Saddam's military forces were, to a certain degree where Saddam was as well during the opening days of the war. The insurgent attacks have been in a few areas; the US has been able to move at will throughout Iraq ever since late April 2003. They have visited site after site after site which they told us prior to the war were WMD production facilities. And yet they have found NOTHING.
We're not talking about a single ball hidden in a house. We're talking about ball factories, warehouses filled with balls, people who helped make the balls and move them around, the paperwork involved in co-ordinating all that. None of which has been found. How much time does the administration need? How much time do the WMD advocates need before they admit they were wrong?
Comments
*Knock* *Knock*.... BOOM
And then you still won't be happy..... "How could they let this happen?".... whaaaaa..... whaaaaaaa...... WHAAAAAAAAAAAA
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't recall agreeing to be happy when presented with <i>one</i> of these weapons, and I doubt you'll find many people who would have floated that concession at the outset of the war.
I want to see the level of illegal activity-- and the evidence of ambitious programs and the <i>actual</i> stockpiles of <i>actual</i> potent weapons that were used for justification for the invasion.
No more, no less.
Are we too hard to please, or are you too eager to buy into a lame technicality? Well, there's one shell of ancient and probably inactive sarin gas-- we said he had WMDs, and he did! Case closed!
I could care less if the weapons are actually there. I subscribe to a completely different type of war policy than most. The policy basically boils down to this....
"Live the way that you feel is justified, accept criticism with a grain of salt, and beat the life out of anyone that gives you the evil-eye."
I know it's not PC, but I don't care.
Err.. big difference... The person in charge of the country who would of made the 1916 era shell would not be the same one as today.
Saddam, Was in charge when this shell was made and he was in charge up until recently.
Saddam, Was in charge when this shell was made and he was in charge up until recently. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point was that both examples were from old programs. The finding of a 1980's era chemical shell does not indicate in any way that Saddam was manufacturing WMDs after the first Gulf War.
"Live the way that you feel is justified, accept criticism with a grain of salt, and beat the life out of anyone that gives you the evil-eye."
I know it's not PC, but I don't care. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would have thought that this Iraq war would be justified if Saddam actually <i>did </i>have an up and running WMD program, but it doesn't look that way so far. It's not like the Iraqi public wants the Coalition forces there, either. How do you judge what's justified?
When was the year of construction mentioned (just wondering)?
Iraq is a big county, with lots of places to hide stuff. Give the adminstration time, for crying out loud. How fast do you think you can find a ball hidden in my house, than complicate that by mines and me shooting at you. Not everything is cut and paste; if anyone thought we were going to win and than poof the evidence would be right in front of our face; than they have little grasp on the reality outside of their bubble. Wars are no longer fought soley on the battle field, the media is a front as well. Sadam was not stupid, he was studied in war and had to know this. Sadam probably move any operations he had(If any) to syria and shot those who knew and could not be trusted.
CWG
The government fabricated the shells as WMDs is rediculous, and if they did everyone in office should be replaced. If all they could do is plant 2 shells, than they dont deserve to be in office.
P.S.
All spelling are for artistic merit.
If the insurgents did find Sarin (from Saddam), it would have been in much larger quantities then enough for that lousy bomb, and that's assuming it even came from Saddam, which it probably didn't. They probably just brought some with them from wherever.
There is a program on MSNBC tonight at 10 that will be discussing (yes, discussing not just bantering if wether sarin is a WMD or not) the sarin gas thing in Iraq. I suggest we all watch it because that program always always always makes great points on the world, it's sitautation, etc. Seriously, it will be worth it.
Of course, if you miss it I can just post a transcript from it tomorrow. Either or.
The administration has had over a year. They fought a war where not one single WMD was used. Why on earth would Saddam, if he had the weapons, not have used them against US forces or Israel? He had nothing to lose.
The US has been watching Iraq like hawks for over a decade. They knew where Saddam's military forces were, to a certain degree where Saddam was as well during the opening days of the war. The insurgent attacks have been in a few areas; the US has been able to move at will throughout Iraq ever since late April 2003. They have visited site after site after site which they told us prior to the war were WMD production facilities. And yet they have found NOTHING.
We're not talking about a single ball hidden in a house. We're talking about ball factories, warehouses filled with balls, people who helped make the balls and move them around, the paperwork involved in co-ordinating all that. None of which has been found. How much time does the administration need? How much time do the WMD advocates need before they admit they were wrong?